Can God make a weight that he cannot lift?

[Jonesboy]

Maybe you missed my post addressing this, because it was at the end of a page:
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This thread keeps revolving around this statement. The above statement, which I have quoted, is false. Saying “there is a weight which cannot be lifted” is a completely* coherent and logical statement. I do not know why you think otherwise. Where did you hear that weights have to be liftable or moveable to be considered a weight? It is not true. I would like to know your source.

For example, think of a back hole. For all we know, a back hole is Infinitely dense…its the mass of an entire star (or solar system) condensed into a single point. It’s mass (and weight ) is so great, it cannot be lifted. There no means by which a human person can lift such a weight…even with any present or conceivable future technology. It is a weight that cannot be lifted. Why doesn’t this make sense to you? Weights can and do exist that cannot be lifted.

I’m alluding to the difference between a weight that cannot be lifted - which is fine with me, to a weight that necessarily cannot be lifted.

It is a contradiction to say that God can make a weight that he cannot lift, as weights are finite objects, and God is not a finite object among other finite objects.

But then if you get around it by saying that, given God is not a finite object, then the weight is accordingly, necessarily unliftable, then we are being asked to imagine a weight that isn’t applicable to a finite object. Now that idea is incoherent.

A black hole has finite mass, as do all masses in our universe. A weight that is necessarilly unmoveable isn’t a weight, but some other entity, like a colour.

 

[Garyjohn2]

It is a contradiction to say that God can make a weight that he cannot lift, as weights are finite objects, and God is not a finite object among other finite objects.

I see what you are saying here. I guess that is the crux of the question…can God create a contradiction? If not, does that mean he is not infinite? If so, does that also mean he is not infinite?

But then if you get around it by saying that, given God is not a finite object, then the weight is accordingly, necessarily unliftable, then we are being asked to imagine a weight that isn’t applicable to a finite object. Now that idea is incoherent.

I don’t think this idea is incoherent. Can God, being infinite, create an object that is also infinite?

A black hole has finite mass, as do all masses in our universe. A weight that is necessarilly unmoveable isn’t a weight, but some other entity, like a colour.

Black holes have a finite mass, but are unliftable my man. A weight that is unliftable by God is still a weight, just a very special infinite weight. Saying there is a black hole out there that God created himself that is so massive and heavy that He himself cannot move it does not mean all of a sudden that the black hole has no mass and is a color or something like that, does it?

Yes these questions are silly and contradictory, but I will contend they are coherent and logical.

 

[White_Peony]

Can God make a weight that he cannot lift?
This question contains a mistake that, invariably, no-one notices, not even philosophers.

The mistake is the broken idea that something that cannot be lifted is a weight.

That’s just contradicting itself and God cannot contradict Himself.

 

[Jonesboy]

I see what you are saying here. I guess that is the crux of the question…can God create a contradiction? If not, does that mean he is not infinite? If so, does that also mean he is not infinite?

I don’t think this idea is incoherent. Can God, being infinite, create an object that is also infinite?

Black holes have a finite mass, but are unliftable my man. A weight that is unliftable by God is still a weight, just a very special infinite weight. Saying there is a black hole out there that God created himself that is so massive and heavy that He himself cannot move it does not mean all of a sudden that the black hole has no mass and is a color or something like that, does it?

Yes these questions are silly and contradictory, but I will contend they are coherent and logical.

A weight that is necessarily unliftable is incoherent.
First, to imagine an “infinite” weight is to imagine ourselves into another dark corner, for no proposal of “infinite” is to hand that can lend itself to a sensible ear.
Second, there is no reason to imagine that a new property of weight doesn’t also apply itself to a new property of force. So an “infinite” weight can be lifted by an infinite force.

Weight and force are inextricably, analytically, linked. To claim to have weight that is independent of force is incoherent. THis applies to any weight, black hole or not.

 

[Jonesboy]

That’s just contradicting itself and God cannot contradict Himself.

Yes, a weight that necessarily cannot be lifted is not a weight, as I said. God doesn’t come into it. God would not know what we mean by a weight that necessarily cannot be lifted, and neither do we know what we mean by it.

 

[Jonesboy]

I see what you are saying here. I guess that is the crux of the question…can God create a contradiction? If not, does that mean he is not infinite? If so, does that also mean he is not infinite?

I don’t think this idea is incoherent. Can God, being infinite, create an object that is also infinite?

Black holes have a finite mass, but are unliftable my man. A weight that is unliftable by God is still a weight, just a very special infinite weight. Saying there is a black hole out there that God created himself that is so massive and heavy that He himself cannot move it does not mean all of a sudden that the black hole has no mass and is a color or something like that, does it?

Yes these questions are silly and contradictory, but I will contend they are coherent and logical.

All weights are moveable or liftable by a force. Every weight can be matched with an equal force. A weight is a force.

 

[vz71]

All weights are moveable or liftable by a force. Every weight can be matched with an equal force. A weight is a force.

Then the question boils down a little further.
Is it possible for God to construct a force equal to his own.

The answer is if he wants to.
We have as an example Christ.
God took upon human frailty, but still remained God.
He is entirely and totally God, with all of the omnipotence that goes with it, and he is entirely and totally human - with all of the frailty that comes with it.