Can I be a cafeteria Liberal?

[Oreoracle]

Can someone explain the premise of this thread to me? Is there some stereotype which says that liberals accept pretty much anyone into their ranks? If so, I’ve not heard it before.

 

[livingwordunity]

Can someone explain the premise of this thread to me? Is there some stereotype which says that liberals accept pretty much anyone into their ranks? If so, I’ve not heard it before.

There’s the claim they make of ‘tolerance’. The thread is to test this claim to see if they can tolerate and fully accept someone who doesn’t agree with them.

 

[Oreoracle]

There’s the claim they make of ‘tolerance’. The thread is to test this claim to see if they can tolerate and fully accept someone who doesn’t agree with them.

I see. Well I don’t consider myself a liberal, but if I may: Being tolerant doesn’t mean you’re willing to flagrantly disregard definitions, such as any given definition of “liberal”. Tolerance just means people won’t suppress contrary opinions or attempt to subjugate you for having them.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Can someone explain the premise of this thread to me? Is there some stereotype which says that liberals accept pretty much anyone into their ranks? If so, I’ve not heard it before.

In the beginning, I took it to mean that there are some good things accomplished by those who call themselves liberals, for example in terms of social and economic aid programs that do what they set out to do and whose bureaucracy isn’t absurdly overgrown. But we would like to discard or reform if there is waste or mismanagement, and we definitely aren’t on board with the permissive morality thing in areas such as abortion and gay marriage.

Likewise, there are those of us who, due to those moral issues, sometimes end up voting for the conservative candidates by default when we disagree with their (sometimes stingy) attitudes toward the poor.

Give me a 5-second lead before y’all on both sides start flinging tomatoes. :takeoff:

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hi Livingwordunity,

I once took an ideological test and came out mostly conservative but also somewhat liberal in some areas. I like animals and trees and nature. Conservationism.

This is liberal? Most country people are pretty conservative, and there’s no better conservationist in this nation than a country dweller.

My general impression is that most liberals actually like nature theoretically and from afar.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think a Catholic almost has to be a “cafeteria liberal/cafeteria conservative”. If you read the Social Encyclicals and take them seriously, you really can’t be a true American-style liberal, but you can’t escape some views that many consider “liberal”.

Take for instance the obligation of a society to provide decently for those unable to help themselves. Seems sort of liberal in today’s way of stereotyping… But the next part says it should be done by the most proximate, competent level. That could be family, church, county, state. It isn’t necessarily the federal government, and shouldn’t be if a more proximate level can take care of it. That, then, seems “conservative” or at least sort of conservative.

 

[livingwordunity]

I think a Catholic almost has to be a “cafeteria liberal/cafeteria conservative”. If you read the Social Encyclicals and take them seriously, you really can’t be a true American-style liberal, but you can’t escape some views that many consider “liberal”.

The difference though is that the core political beliefs of American liberals which are called absolute rights by them are called absolute evils by the Catholic Church. For example, Pope John Paul II said straight up that abortion is murder. And homosexual acts are condemned all through the Holy Bible from Genesis to the letters in the New Testament while Jesus defines marriage as being nothing other than one man and one woman when he made it a sacrament.

But, some things that a Catholic might disagree with some American conservatives on such as illegal immigration, gun control, or the death penalty for convicted murderers, are issues which the Catholic Church leaves up to governments to decide how they are going to deal with it. And, besides that, American conservatives themselves are divided on these issues. And there is division between social conservatives and fiscal conservatives (liberals who are tight with their money). This disunity of opinion among conservatives is part of the reason we’ve been having trouble winning in the most recent presidential elections.

 

[SMGS127]

or the death penalty for convicted murderers

CCC 2267:

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.

If a Catholic supported the death penalty in the United States over life without parole, considering the fact that the ONLY argument in the United States deals solely with the death penalty as a deterrent, I would consider them heterodox.

gun control

CCC 2316:

The production and the sale of arms affect the common good of nations and of the international community. Hence public authorities have the right and duty to regulate them. The short-term pursuit of private or collective interests cannot legitimate undertakings that promote violence and conflict among nations and compromise the international juridical order.

Emphasis mine. I’ve seen many conservatives here argue for unlimited gun access for everyone.

 

[livingwordunity]

If a Catholic supported the death penalty in the United States over life without parole, considering the fact that the ONLY argument in the United States deals solely with the death penalty as a deterrent, I would consider them heterodox.

The difference is that with abortion there are absolutely no exceptions, ever. The Church says that abortion is always intrinsic evil. Capital punishment for a convicted murderer is not in the same league with intrinsic evils like abortion. The Church saying that She very very strongly frowns on these things isn’t the same as calling it an intrinsic evil. The Catholic Church has said that abortion is murder. But, when has the Church said “capital punishment is murder”? Did you know that even in the United States murderers occasionally are successful in escaping from prisons? And when they do, they often kill again before they are caught and locked back up again.

I’ve seen many conservatives here argue for unlimited gun access for everyone.

With all due respect, I’m going to challenge that assertion. I used to be a regular listener of all kinds of conservative talk shows such as Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, and even the more extreme Michael Savage, and I’ve never seen or heard of any conservative there, here, or anyplace else saying that absolutely everyone should have a gun. What we do say is that a law abiding citizen should have the freedom to own one IF they choose and IF they don’t have any mental or emotional issues and IF they can be responsible with it by learning and practicing firearm safety.

If you did ever see someone on here argue for “unlimited gun access for everyone” how do you know they are a real conservative and not someone who is trolling on here? It’s very easy for anyone to create an account and then pose as a conservative while saying crazy things to make conservatives look bad. The other side does that to conservatives a lot. They do it to us on websites, and they will sometimes have someone pretending to be one of the conservatives at conservative rallies doing something like holding up a racist sign for one of their liberal buddy’s cameras.

 

[Lokadottir]

Does anyone here who might identify as “liberal” know if liberals would love and accept me just as I am if I only accept some of their beliefs while rejecting others that I don’t feel are for me?

For example, I love trees and animals, especially dogs.

But, I hate abortion. I don’t believe or feel that the government should force anyone to pay for contraception or abortions, and I don’t believe it should be legal.

I strongly disagree with so-called same-sex “marriage”. I don’t believe or feel that marriage should be redefined to be other than one man and one woman.

I feel that guns shouldn’t be taken away from honest, mentally healthy people who obey the law. But, I feel that the guns should be taken away from the street gangs.

I don’t agree that human embryo experimentation or human cloning should be legal.

I don’t believe or feel that doctor assisted “suicide” should be legal.

I don’t believe or feel that the government should force anyone to give to government approved charities. Because, as the bible says, “Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” - 2 Corinthians 9:7

But, I like dogs and trees.

Be your own person! Politics has become binary, but its not Catholic doctrine or something!