Can I be Catholic?

[yellowantphil]

But my wife’s marriage cannot be annulled. It was a Buddhist ceremony, involving non-baptized persons. Apparently that is a valid marriage. So conversion is the only way.

Hmm, maybe the priest is talking about the Pauline privilege.

Have you asked any other priests about your situation? Maybe another priest would see things differently. Ultimately, it’s up to the marriage tribunal, rather than your local priest, to decide if your wife’s previous marriage can be annulled.

Meanwhile, my baby remains unbaptized (now 9 months old)

In case you didn’t know, anyone can baptize your baby in an emergency (danger of death). Just something to keep in mind.

This is a tough situation. I wish I had some awesome insight for you, but I am just a Random Guy on the Internet and I told you all I know.

 

[David_Alexander]

Isn’t there the "pauline privalege’ that would make you wives first marriage invalid making her after confession free to marry you?

Yes, but firstly my wife is naturally taking her time and I do not want to pressure her. I am advising, but it is a fine line! I know she loves me and would convert for me, but I want her to see it for herself.

Secondly, what if she had already been Catholic and did not have such a technicality available? I feel bad for others in the same position, who may never be able to take part in the sacraments. And when I say I feel bad, I mean it compromises my view of the Church, if there are people who are frozen out.

 

[David_Alexander]

I’m certainly no expert. But what has “conversion” got to do with it? Something doesn’t sound right here. There are many millions of catholics who are married to non-catholics.
Again, you need to talk to a canon lawyer.

Conversion because she is divorced and my priest told me that annulment would not be possible.

I now see advice on this thread suggesting we could still try for an annulment? I have done extensive research on this, and I just don’t see how? My wife had a valid Buddhist marriage to a non-baptized man. Had he been baptized, that would have been a ‘loophole’ but how sad to be searching for loopholes!

 

[David_Alexander]

David, I’m sorry you’re going through a rough time.

Have you officially converted to catholicism and been received into the church yet? I’m not an expert but I think if you’ve converted you should be able to be welcomed as a catholic even if you have to sort some things out before receiving the eucharist.

Your parish doesn’t offer instruction, is there another one fairly nearby that does? You might have to travel a little but getting proper instruction is important. Look for an RCIA class to inquire into.

Your priest may be delaying baptism because he needs to be sure that your child will be raised catholic. If there is one catholic parent and both parents agree then there shouldn’t be a problem. If neither of you have converted yet then he probably won’t baptize, especially if he senses you have doubts.

Your wife will need to get her first marriage annulled before your marriage becomes valid. You may have to remarry in the church.

I know it’s a lot of hoops to jump through but if you’re determined to become catholic then you’ll just have to do it.

Best of luck.

Thank you. I have not officially swum the Tiber, I am standing on the other side with longing in my heart!

 

[David_Alexander]

Look at it objectively. If your wife’s first marriage was valid, then you are living with another man’s wife. As long as you continue doing that, you are sinning, as an objective matter. You can’t receive the sacraments while living in sin.

I don’t know what kind of conversations you have had with your priest, but you need stop fighting the Church and ask your priest to help you work things out. If you do that he won’t have any reason to avoid you.

On the first point, yes I am living with a divorced woman. I crossed continents to be with her, having left my native England and my family and friends behind. There was nothing about her previous marriage that resembled a marriage in the Catholic sense, and her ex-husband was even wanting to abandon the whole thing just before their wedding and within a year or so he was looking to get a separate apartment. Nevertheless, yes I do feel guilt that things did not work out between them, particularly since I started attending Church properly. Then again, my wife and I did what we did, and we love each other and try to be good people and want to raise our baby to be a good, even wonderful person, and if God wills it, we want more babies too!

People are human. If we were all infallible, there would be no need for confession. I want to repent of my sins so much, but I can’t go to confession. But not many Christians would seriously advise me to abandon my family either.

On the second point, I assure you I have been very gentle with my priest, not fighting in any way. Probably I have been asking too many questions. But I live in a country where there are not many English-speaking Catholics (relatively speaking). This website has been my main port of call outside of books and audio materials online.

 

[David_Alexander]

Hmm, maybe the priest is talking about the Pauline privilege.

This is a tough situation. I wish I had some awesome insight for you, but I am just a Random Guy on the Internet and I told you all I know.

Thank you

 

[nightranger]

Conversion because she is divorced and my priest told me that annulment would not be possible.

I now see advice on this thread suggesting we could still try for an annulment? I have done extensive research on this, and I just don’t see how? My wife had a valid Buddhist marriage to a non-baptized man. Had he been baptized, that would have been a ‘loophole’ but how sad to be searching for loopholes!

Naw dude. None of this is making any sense. You need to talk to a canon lawyer. If you don’t want to do that, it’s up to you. But if I were you I would shut off the computer and talk to someone who really knows what’s going on.

 

[wasserfall]

Secondly, what if she had already been Catholic and did not have such a technicality available? I feel bad for others in the same position, who may never be able to take part in the sacraments. And when I say I feel bad, I mean it compromises my view of the Church, if there are people who are frozen out.

No one is frozen out who doesn’t choose to freeze himself out.
You can’t be truly sorry for your sin while at the same time refusing to give it up.
You have to stop sinning in order to be reconciled to God.

 

[David_Alexander]

No one is frozen out who doesn’t choose to freeze himself out.
You can’t be truly sorry for your sin while at the same time refusing to give it up.
You have to stop sinning in order to be reconciled to God.

Had I been a Catholic before my marriage, perhaps I would be able to agree. But, once married, and especially after having a baby, how can I now forego those things?

I am sorry about my past sins, and I am sorry for my sins today. I am a sinner and may God have mercy on me and on all us sinners. All the more pertinent then that we may all have access to the sacraments?

Is it Christian to cast judgment on why someone is frozen out? Not all sheep come back to the shepherd with the herd, some have to be coaxed, some have to be positively sought. And we are taught that these lost sheep are to be cherished all the more.

And besides, who can truly now cast a judgment on my marriage and on my wife’s reasons for divorce from a previous union entirely outside the Church?

 

[Rabbity]

I did a little sniffing around apparently David can’t fully convert until his wife’s first marriage is resolved, part of the reasoning being it would be silly to bring in an adult who could not participate in the sacraments.

nightranger is right, your next step is to talk to a canon lawyer. They deal with this stuff all of the time and I’m sure they’ve seen cases much more complicated than yours.

 

[David_Alexander]

I did a little sniffing around apparently David can’t fully convert until his wife’s first marriage is resolved, part of the reasoning being it would be silly to bring in an adult who could not participate in the sacraments.

nightranger is right, your next step is to talk to a canon lawyer. They deal with this stuff all of the time and I’m sure they’ve seen cases much more complicated than yours.

Thank you, that is kind of you to take the time!

Canon lawyer sounds a) expensive and b) hard for me personally to communicate with here in Korea.

But, as wasserfall has communicated to me, my wife would be the one applying and she is Korean so b) needn’t be an issue. Nevertheless, I am not sure about a). It’s not like I want to take a holiday to Thailand so I can’t do it…financially right now for our family everything has to be accounted for.

 

[wasserfall]

As just an aside, David, I have a fondness for Korea, so (in a benign way) I envy your being there

 

[Rabbity]

I’ve never been there but it’s on my list of places I’d love to travel to.

 

[Seira]

Secondly, what if she had already been Catholic and did not have such a technicality available? I feel bad for others in the same position, who may never be able to take part in the sacraments. And when I say I feel bad, I mean it compromises my view of the Church, if there are people who are frozen out.

One of my relatives is a divorced Catholic who got an annulment w/o a problem & has been remarried for 20+ years. Talk to a Canon lawyer first & have them take a look at what your options are.

 

[David_Alexander]

That is interesting, thank you Seira.

Rabbity, you should visit, it is underestimated as a tourist destination for sure, so much to do here, and many beautiful things to see.

Wasserfall, if you ever come (or come again if you’ve already been), be sure to attend Mass at both Myeongdong Cathedral and my little parish in the Hannam-dong area of Seoul The Catholic presence here is far less visible than the big bright red crosses of the Protestant churches that fill the night sky, but it is rich and intense

I find it ironic that I have found Christ so passionately in Korea, after leaving the cathedrals and grand monuments (the ones not destroyed) of the UK and Europe.

 

[wasserfall]

Wasserfall, if you ever come (or come again if you’ve already been), be sure to attend Mass at both Myeongdong Cathedral and my little parish in the Hannam-dong area of Seoul The Catholic presence here is far less visible than the big bright red crosses of the Protestant churches that fill the night sky, but it is rich and intense

I’ve visited Myeongdong Cathedral, but not for mass.

 

[David_Alexander]

I’ve visited Myeongdong Cathedral, but not for mass.

I go there to just think, pray, reflect, rest, re-vitalise, admire!

Mass in Hannam is far more humble but worth going to if you ever visit again.

 

[nightranger]

Thank you, that is kind of you to take the time!

Canon lawyer sounds a) expensive and b) hard for me personally to communicate with here in Korea.

South Korea is full of catholics. I’ll bet there are many resources for you right there my friend, canon lawyers included. Or at least someone who could steer you in the right direction.

Don’t just sit around and stew about this. Take action.

 

[Lapey]

Good point, I agree.

You should. I certainly would. Being catholic is difficult. If I were searching for a Christian religion, I would go for a “once saved always saved” church for sure.

Bad advice from a Catholic to someone who wants to be Catholic…remember the gate is NARROW. Matt 7:13-14;

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few."

All of us can find that gate, but the only way is through Jesus’ way; not our own.

 

[Lapey]

Yes, but firstly my wife is naturally taking her time and I do not want to pressure her. I am advising, but it is a fine line! I know she loves me and would convert for me, but I want her to see it for herself.

Secondly, what if she had already been Catholic and did not have such a technicality available? I feel bad for others in the same position, who may never be able to take part in the sacraments. And when I say I feel bad, I mean it compromises my view of the Church, if there are people who are frozen out.

David, no one is “frozen out” unless they choose it. There is always an opportunity to “fix” things through Jesus’ Church. But one must first admit there is need for “fixing.”

Living the Catholic faith is not easy, Jesus told us this as another poster has already wrote. It is not our way, but His way. There is only one truth and its fullness is in The Catholic Church. Seek that truth and you will find it.

By the way, the Pauline Privilege is not a technicality; it is a legitimate situation where the priest can make the declaration that the marriage never existed if a non-baptized person was married to a baptized. In the case of two non-baptized persons being married and divorced before the marriage between you and your wife, I’m not sure the PP applies. I am not a canonist, but your diocese should have a canon lawyer available to answer these questions, at no cost. Your priest SHOULD be able to help you get that answer, if not go to another priest. I can promise you this is not the first time the Church has met with your situation, She has seen everything and can supply guidance for any situation.

Go talk with your priest again and ask these questions about canon lawyer help. But first off, you need to sit down with your wife and see if she truly intends to convert to the Church and if not present that to the priest and CL. Be honest and upfront with all information they need to help you, without this they will not be able to help.

Most of all, be patient. It will take a little time to correct all the issues you are presenting Mother Church with, but She will work them out, just trust!