Can I do Yoga?

[Bruised_Reed]

Look if all you’re doing is exercises at home, it’s not Yoga. So I think saying it’s fine to do Yoga with “right intent” is misleading. What you are doing is exercising. I don’t think there is any prohibition against exercising or stretching. Far as I know Pilates which is also focused on certain positions is OK because it is just an exercise program.

Now if you are going through a series of Yoga positions, realize that the positions HAVE intent even if your mind is not on Shiva. The bowing, the stretching of the hands outward in the Sun Salutation, all have meaning and all have been designed to evoke a feeling. Just as someone pointed out, making the sign of the Cross is intent in its very nature.

IOW I don’t think you are doing yoga if what you describe is true. If you were, then it would be inappropriate even if Ave Maria were played in the background.

Lisa

What is it called if not “yoga”? If I go for a brisk walk, use the elliptical or weight machines I am exersizing, but each has different benefits. Pilates has a very specific approach, and while there is some stretching, the focus is on the core muscles. I don’t expect to get the same results from each type of exersize.

Not all yoga is stretching and not all stretching is yoga. I woke up one morning with a sore upper back and it was the second time in a week. It hurt bad enough I was starting to feel a little sick. Then I happened to stumbled upon a part of yoga called mudras and I tried one called a vayu mudra because it indicated it halped with the *neck and spine and sciatica; I thought “close enough” and “it’s a hand pose I don’t even have to go find space to do this”. I held the pose for 20 seconds, right hand only because I don’t know what I’m doing and I’m not really taking this too seriously, and the pain goes away. It comes back and I try again. I could make a long story short but the truth is the pain came back so I dedided to get serious because something was working so I did it with both hands and held it for about 2 minutes (I was aiming for 5 but I’m restless). The pain went away and stayed away. Yoga heals.

*Vayu Mudra: *Pull index finger toward palm, place tip of thumb on top to hold with slight pressure, straighten the remaining fingers.

*It also helps you if you have gas. I tried not to think about that.

 

[LilyM]

Sorry you must have me mixed up with someone else. I made neither statement. I have no idea what you mean about not objecting to other practices. What other practices?

I used to be quite an avid Yoga practitioner, even studying Kundalini Yoga which is probably among the most “religious” in orientation. I was well aware that the specific movements, the atmosphere in a yoga studio, the chanting, etc were all spiritual practices. I’m trying to remember the little song at the end of every Kundalini practice but in essence it was being one with the world…At the time I was neither Christian nor Catholic so it wasn’t a problem.

What I don’t understand are those who have read numerous statements by Church authorities that indicate practicing yoga is inappropriate so either “I’m not really doing yoga I’m just stretching.” Well if that’s the case you are not practicing yoga, you are stretching. The alternate argument is “Because I don’t intend to evoke the god Shiva, no harm no foul.” Rather like because I didn’t intend to have sex with the guy I met in the bar it really doesn’t count.

Lisa

Oh vey.

You ARE objecting to yoga based on its Hindu origin - that much is a given. I’m sure you wouldn’t object if it was a practice of Christian origin, so that logically follows.

You DID say in the post I quoted, in just so many words, ‘yoga isn’t necessary for rehab’. It then logically follows that you are saying he shouldn’t do it and should find a different form of rehab. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So you DO object to it on the two grounds I stated.

Are you seriously comparing having sex with touching your toes etc combined with deep breathing?

And everyone means to have sex who does so? Have you not heard of date rape? Child abuse? Enforced sex slavery? People have sex in all sorts of circumstances where neither intent nor moral wrong can be imputed to them in so doing.

 

[LisaA]

What is it called if not “yoga”? If I go for a brisk walk, use the elliptical or weight machines I am exersizing, but each has different benefits. Pilates has a very specific approach, and while there is some stretching, the focus is on the core muscles. I don’t expect to get the same results from each type of exersize.

Not all yoga is stretching and not all stretching is yoga. I woke up one morning with a sore upper back and it was the second time in a week. It hurt bad enough I was starting to feel a little sick. Then I happened to stumbled upon a part of yoga called mudras and I tried one called a vayu mudra because it indicated it halped with the *neck and spine and sciatica; I thought “close enough” and “it’s a hand pose I don’t even have to go find space to do this”. I held the pose for 20 seconds, right hand only because I don’t know what I’m doing and I’m not really taking this too seriously, and the pain goes away. It comes back and I try again. I could make a long story short but the truth is the pain came back so I dedided to get serious because something was working so I did it with both hands and held it for about 2 minutes (I was aiming for 5 but I’m restless). The pain went away and stayed away. Yoga heals.

*Vayu Mudra: *Pull index finger toward palm, place tip of thumb on top to hold with slight pressure, straighten the remaining fingers.

*It also helps you if you have gas. I tried not to think about that.

I’m very aware of mudras. I mentioned being an avid practitioner of yoga in a past life. I’m also aware of exercise being an avid gym rat.

Look it sounds like either people are not practicing yoga but think they are and then defend the practice because it has certain benefits. Or people are practicing yoga but claim they are not REALLY doing yoga because they don’t intend to honor Shiva.

You know about that road to h**l. Paved with good intentions! The Church’s position is clear. It’s not my claim that practicing yoga even if the intent is to stretch or is against the Church’s teaching. LIke other teachings you are free to accept or reject them.

But even if you reject the Church’s words, take a look at how practitionrs describe yoga. Only in America is it considered excercise or therapy.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

Oh vey.

You ARE objecting to yoga based on its Hindu origin - that much is a given. I’m sure you wouldn’t object if it was a practice of Christian origin, so that logically follows.

You DID say in the post I quoted, in just so many words, ‘yoga isn’t necessary for rehab’. It then logically follows that you are saying he shouldn’t do it and should find a different form of rehab. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So you DO object to it on the two grounds I stated.

Are you seriously comparing having sex with touching your toes etc combined with deep breathing?

And everyone means to have sex who does so? Have you not heard of date rape? Child abuse? Enforced sex slavery? People have sex in all sorts of circumstances where neither intent nor moral wrong can be imputed to them in so doing.

Again you’ve misread, misquoted and attributed words that were not there. I have no idea where you came up with the last paragraph. Totally irrelevant and running down a rabbit trail instead of responding to what was said. Really you should simply object to what was stated rather than making things up for the sake of argument.

It’s not me objecting to yoga. Several posts have provided references to Church authority on the subject. You can choose to accept or reject these teachings just as many Catholics accept or reject other teachings. As I said, not my soul at stake here.

BTW if you think yoga is “touching your toes and breathing deeply” you need to get a little more information.

Lisa

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I’m very aware of mudras. I mentioned being an avid practitioner of yoga in a past life. I’m also aware of exercise being an avid gym rat.

Look it sounds like either people are not practicing yoga but think they are and then defend the practice because it has certain benefits. Or people are practicing yoga but claim they are not REALLY doing yoga because they don’t intend to honor Shiva.

You know about that road to h**l. Paved with good intentions! The Church’s position is clear. It’s not my claim that practicing yoga even if the intent is to stretch or is against the Church’s teaching. LIke other teachings you are free to accept or reject them.

But even if you reject the Church’s words, take a look at how practitionrs describe yoga. Only in America is it considered excercise or therapy.

Lisa

I don’t think I’m “practicing” yoga; I’m investigating it because I’ve seen the benefits in others and finally I was on the receiving end for a change.

Plus all the debate has made me curious. I’ve read what some of the critics of yoga write about it and discovered they promote the idea that certain other things are occultic that are not. They’ve lost some credibility with me.

 

[LisaA]

I don’t think I’m “practicing” yoga; I’m investigating it because I’ve seen the benefits in others and finally I was on the receiving end for a change.

Plus all the debate has made me curious. I’ve read what some of the critics of yoga write about it and discovered they promote the idea that certain other things are occultic that are not. They’ve lost some credibility with me.

Again, it’s not my opinion, it’s the Church’s teaching. I don’t think the Church is criticizing yoga as an exercise program but its foundation, its essence, the objective of its practitioners is as a spiritual practice. I hope you think the Church has credibility.

Lisa

 

[LilyM]

Again you’ve misread, misquoted and attributed words that were not there. I have no idea where you came up with the last paragraph. Totally irrelevant and running down a rabbit trail instead of responding to what was said. Really you should simply object to what was stated rather than making things up for the sake of argument.

It’s not me objecting to yoga. Several posts have provided references to Church authority on the subject. You can choose to accept or reject these teachings just as many Catholics accept or reject other teachings. As I said, not my soul at stake here.

BTW if you think yoga is “touching your toes and breathing deeply” you need to get a little more information.

Lisa

I’m sorry, but your stock standard response to objections is that you are being misattributed and misquoted. Such things happen, but it happens so often to you … Perhaps you ought to consider whether you are actually expressing yourself clearly.

Your comment about yoga being unnecessary for rehab was pointless and meaningless unless you meant it as a reason why one should not do yoga. Or do you make a habit of including irrelevant, uninteresting and bleeding obvious facts in your posts?

My point about sex is highly relevant. You said, and I quote, ‘Rather like because I didn’t intend to have sex with that guy I met in the bar it doesn’t really count’. Meaning you cannot have sex without intending to. Which is patently wrong.

Sometimes it really DOESN’T count - not in any way that matters morally. Not every girl who meets a guy in a bar intends to have sex with said guy. What would I be guilty of, what intent would I have, if that guy I met in the bar raped me, for example?

You’re strongly implying here that someone can worship Hindu deities merely by doing yoga without meaning to do worship them.

If you are correct, then a Hindu or atheist actor can be playing a devout Catholic in a movie, and by merely saying the words of the Hail Mary with awareness that it is considered by Catholics to be a prayer, hey presto be really and truly praying to Mary. In spite of having absolutely no intention of praying to the Blessed Mother, and no belief even that she CAN be prayed to. What say you - can someone unintentionally and accidentally pray to Mary all the while intending and believing that they are not doing so?

 

[Ophelia23]

Again, it’s not my opinion, it’s the Church’s teaching. I don’t think the Church is criticizing yoga as an exercise program but its foundation, its essence, the objective of its practitioners is as a spiritual practice. I hope you think the Church has credibility.

Lisa

I think the bolded part is the essence of what we are talking about. I don’t think the Church criticizes yoga as an exercise program, either. As you’ve already mentioned, the United States is one of the only country where some people refer to yoga as just the exercise/therapy routine without any spirituality being involved. I can’t help but wonder if it is simply a case of semantics or language difference. I can only speak for myself with certainty, but I will put myself out on a limb and also speak for others (who are welcome to hush me up!): I find it highly unlikely that anyone on this thread thus far is arguing the spiritual practice of Yoga is in accordance with the Catholic Church. It seems to me that all of us–including you–are in agreement that the basic exercises are not against church teaching. So if we should call it by another name, then that’s fine. What should we call the exercise?

 

[Ophelia23]

Can’t we all just get along??

 

[miguel]

Again, it’s not my opinion, it’s the Church’s teaching. I don’t think the Church is criticizing yoga as an exercise program but its foundation, its essence, the objective of its practitioners is as a spiritual practice. I hope you think the Church has credibility.

Lisa

A year or two ago, the NY Times had an expose on Yoga being dangerous to health…let alone spiritual health. My take…the pain threshold is there to warn people when they are getting too close to injury…the more limber a person gets, the more susceptible to injury because most people don’t know how far they can push themselves. And yoga instructors don’t necessarily have this knowledge either…how far the neck can be rotated without permanent injury, for example.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Again, it’s not my opinion, it’s the Church’s teaching. I don’t think the Church is criticizing yoga as an exercise program but its foundation, its essence, the objective of its practitioners is as a spiritual practice. I hope you think the Church has credibility.

Lisa

Someone upthread, I think it was LilyM already addressed the “foundation” aspect. There are a lot of things that have pagan roots.

And I am talking about the physical part. But I don’t think a posture is praying to someone. Isn’t there a pose that looks similar to the posture when you pray with your hands together? It’s one thing if I do that and invoke the Trinity but another if I am more precise with my posture and balance. I am doing two different things.

 

[LilyM]

I think the bolded part is the essence of what we are talking about. I don’t think the Church criticizes yoga as an exercise program, either. As you’ve already mentioned, the United States is one of the only country where some people refer to yoga as just the exercise/therapy routine without any spirituality being involved. I can’t help but wonder if it is simply a case of semantics or language difference. I can only speak for myself with certainty, but I will put myself out on a limb and also speak for others (who are welcome to hush me up!): I find it highly unlikely that anyone on this thread thus far is arguing the spiritual practice of Yoga is in accordance with the Catholic Church. It seems to me that all of us–including you–are in agreement that the basic exercises are not against church teaching. So if we should call it by another name, then that’s fine. What should we call the exercise?

Amen! What a voice of reason!

And by the way, I would reckon most of the Western world actually does have a similar attitude to yoga as Americans do. If not more so - I know the bulk of my European acquaintances are intensely secular, and so even less into spirituality of any kind - including Eastern spirituality - than American. I can vouch for Australia from personal experience. And I have read that in parts of Scandinavia the exercises are sometimes prescribed by ordinary doctors to their patients.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I think the bolded part is the essence of what we are talking about. I don’t think the Church criticizes yoga as an exercise program, either. As you’ve already mentioned, the United States is one of the only country where some people refer to yoga as just the exercise/therapy routine without any spirituality being involved. I can’t help but wonder if it is simply a case of semantics or language difference. I can only speak for myself with certainty, but I will put myself out on a limb and also speak for others (who are welcome to hush me up!): I find it highly unlikely that anyone on this thread thus far is arguing the spiritual practice of Yoga is in accordance with the Catholic Church. It seems to me that all of us–including you–are in agreement that the basic exercises are not against church teaching. So if we should call it by another name, then that’s fine. What should we call the exercise?

Yes. I could go back and edit my post but I thought about adding, “I think we agree but sound like we are disagreeing.”

 

[LilyM]

A year or two ago, the NY Times had an expose on Yoga being dangerous to health…let alone spiritual health. My take…the pain threshold is there to warn people when they are getting too close to injury…the more limber a person gets, the more susceptible to injury because most people don’t know how far they can push themselves. And yoga instructors don’t necessarily have this knowledge either…how far the neck can be rotated without permanent injury, for example.

Almost every type of exercise is dangerous when overdone or improperly done - running, aerobics, lifting weights and so on. Things like chiropractic adjustments or even some types of physiotherapy can lead to disastrous results in less-than-perfectly skilled hands.

Personal trainers of all kinds are on occasion prone to ‘pushing their clients through the pain barrier’ which of course increases risk of permanent injury or worse.

All depends on the skill and training of the leader and the pre-existing fitness level of the student. And physical danger is totally unrelated to spiritual danger - otherwise pursuits like BASE-jumping and cave-diving would be about the most spiritually dangerous pursuits around.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

So, then we’d need a new name for it wouldn’t we?

“Oh, I like to do totally-non-religious-yogic-type-stretches-but-aren’t-because-I’m-not-worshiping exercise…it’s on a my yoga dvd.”

Sounds like a variation of my NpHys (NOT pagan Hindu yoga stretches):angel1:

 

[PetiteFoi]

Sounds like a variation of my NpHys (NOT pagan Hindu yoga stretches):angel1:

LOL!! *high five *

~Petitefoi

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Sounds like a variation of my NpHys (NOT pagan Hindu yoga stretches):angel1:

NpHys is an awesome system of exercise! In fact, I just went to Costco to buy a case of beans. I invited my two dozen closest friends over this weekend, and we’re all going to wail out on the “Stretching over my head for a can of beans” exercise.

 

[LilyM]

Sounds like a variation of my NpHys (NOT pagan Hindu yoga stretches):angel1:

Ooh, I think I’ve developed a different variation - DANPHYS (EFTFTTLELPHYS) for short. Stands for Definitely Absolutely Not Pagan Hindu Yoga Stretches (Except For The Fact That They Look Exactly Like Pagan Hindu Yoga Stretches.)

This is fun. We need a description for my hypothetical Hindu/atheist actor back there who is saying the Hail Mary as part of a movie role - NBASWOHMFMP (BNAPTHM) or 'Non Believing Actor Saying the Words of the Hail Mary For Movie Purposes (But Not Actually Praying The Hail Mary)

 

[miguel]

Almost every type of exercise is dangerous when overdone or improperly done - running, aerobics, lifting weights and so on. Things like chiropractic adjustments or even some types of physiotherapy can lead to disastrous results in less-than-perfectly skilled hands.

Personal trainers of all kinds are on occasion prone to ‘pushing their clients through the pain barrier’ which of course increases risk of permanent injury or worse.

All depends on the skill and training of the leader and the pre-existing fitness level of the student. And physical danger is totally unrelated to spiritual danger - otherwise pursuits like BASE-jumping and cave-diving would be about the most spiritually dangerous pursuits around.

All very good points…I think the last one is a little iffy. The yoga mindset seems to equate progress with pushing yourself a little further than you pushed yourself the last time. This may be counter-intuitive. But the person who is more limber (i.e., more advanced) is actually more at risk, because that person’s pain threshold isn’t warning them to stop as well as beginners. And they are seeing more injuries because of this. Most people don’t know how far is too far until something breaks. They entrust themselves to yoga instructors who for the most part don’t have this knowledge either.

I would not make the blanket statement that physical danger is totally unrelated to spiritual danger. As an example, often without realizing it, people make idols of all sorts of things. An idol is anything in a person’s life that is more important to that person than God. An idol is always spiritually dangerous. Sometimes that same idol can also be physically dangerous. If people make sex more important than God, they open the door to hurting their physical health also. If people make pursuit of extreme sports more important to them than God, they can die.

The Church also keeps in mind our hidden enemy, who is actively working to hurt us any way he can. Pagan religious practices can open the door to that. The Church has a long experience with that…that us sheep shouldn’t so easily dismiss. Their role is to protect the flock.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Our bodies are gifts.

We need to be good stewards of them, care for them and integrate them better into our spiritual lives.