Can I get some help with these questions

[dnelson001]

1.  Does the word of God gives us any indication to change the Sabbath to Sunday?

Yes. Acts 20:7.
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preach unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speak until midnight.

My note: I guess you are saying that because this verse say “disciples came together to break bread” this means that this was a Sunday church meeting right?
Acts 2:46 and they continues daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart.
As you can see: coming together to break bread does not mean there was holy time involved. Because they broke bread daily it says. That is to say: Every day.

And what makes you think that it is what we today call Sunday? If you recall in bible times the day started at sun set (read Genesis 1), we today use a Gregorian calender from Pope Gregory. So what it is saying is that on Sabbath evening after the sun set they got together and on Sunday morning Paul took the ship.
how do i know this? very simple: we all agree that it was sunday night? and how do we know that: the Bible say so.
Now if it was Sunday night and the day began at sunset and thew was not using the calender we use today, then we know that sunday night was when the sun set on Sabbath evening. so this meeting was on Saturday night and sunda morning he cot the ship.
Unless you want to call Paul a liar you will have to admit that Paul kept the Sabbath up to his last days. See Act 25:7, 8. While Paul answered for himself, neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple nor yet against Caesar, have I offended anything at all.
The Sabbath was the most sacred law the Jews had and he said that he did not do anything at all to offend the law of the Jews.

“The Church… after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lords day.”
The Catholic Encyclopedia, V.4, p. 153

No such law in the Bible “Nowhere” in the bible do we find that Jesus or the apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is, the Seventh day of the week, Saturday. Today, all Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman] church outside the Bible."
Catholic Virginian, Oct. 3, 1947

“You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctified.” James Cardinal Gibbons,
The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 ed.), pp.72,73

Note: I don’t know about you but I don’t see the word of God having anything to do with the change.

1. What church is the only church in the whole world that follows the Bible and the Bible alone?
   Loaded question. The Catholic Church is the one true Church and the only Church that Jesus guaranteed to interpret Scripture accurately. However, no where does Scripture itself tell us to “follow the Bible and the Bible alone”. In fact, Scripture points us to be members of the Church that Christ instituted (the Catholic Church), and to follow Her teachings.

We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches, in pulpil and legislature, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in the Bible.

HE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE
The largest Catholic Magazine Published in the U.S.A.
180 Wabash Avenue, Chicago, Illinois
(Under the Blessings of Pope Plus XI)
english.sdaglobal.org/doctrine/topope.htm

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[dnelson001]

1. What church is the only church in the whole world that follows the Bible and the Bible alone?
   Loaded question. The Catholic Church is the one true Church and the only Church that Jesus guaranteed to interpret Scripture accurately. However, no where does Scripture itself tell us to “follow the Bible and the Bible alone”. In fact, Scripture points us to be members of the Church that Christ instituted (the Catholic Church), and to follow Her teachings.

We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches, in pulpil and legislature, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in the Bible.

HE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE
The largest Catholic Magazine Published in the U.S.A.
180 Wabash Avenue, Chicago, Illinois
(Under the Blessings of Pope Plus XI)
english.sdaglobal.org/doctrine/topope.htm

1. Why did the reformation fail or loss at the council of Trent?
   This question doesn’t make sense to me. I recommend he clarify his phrasing.

Protestant Victory Almost Won, But Lost, Why?
Now in dealing with the Council of Trent (held in northeast Italy, and lasting from 1545 to 1563 A.D.), we must quote another well-versed writer, G.E. Fifield, DD, in his incomparable tract, Origin of Sunday as a Christian (?) Festival (Published by American Sabbath Tract Society, Seventh Day Baptist Church). To quote Dr. Fifield: “At the council of Trent, called by the Roman Church to deal with questions arising out of the Reformation, it was at first an apparent possibility that the Council would declare in favor of the reformed doctrines instead of against them, so profound was the impression made thus far by the teachings of Luther and other reformers.”
The Pope’s legate actually wrote to him that there was ‘‘strong tendency to set aside tradition altogether, and to make the Scriptures the sole standard of appeal.’’ The question was debated day by day, until it was fairly brought to a standstill. Finally the Archbishop of Reggio turned the Council against the Reformation by the following argument: ''The Protestants claim to stand upon the written word only; they profess to hold the Scriptures alone as the standard of faith. They justify their revolt by the plea that the Church has apostatized from the written word and follows tradition. Now the Protestant’s claim that they stand upon the written word alone is not true."
Why Lutheran Claim Was Not True
“Their profession of holding the Scriptures alone as the standard of faith is false. Proof: The written word explicitly enjoins the observance of the seventh day as the Sabbath. They do not observe the seventh day, but reject it. If they truly hold the Scriptures alone as the standard, they would be observing the seventh day as it is enjoined in the Scripture throughout. Yet they not only reject the observance of the Sabbath as enjoined in the written word, but they have adopted, and do practice, the observance of Sunday, for which they have only the tradition of the (Catholic) Church.”
“Consequently, the claim of Scripture alone as the standard fails and the doctrine of ‘Scripture and tradition as essential’ is fully established, the Protestants themselves being Judges.” See The Proceedings of the Council of Trent, Augsburg confession and Encyclopedia Britannica, article “Trent, Council of.” At this argument, the party that had stood for the Scripture alone surrendered, and the Council at once unanimously condemned Protestantism, and the whole Reformation. It at once proceeded to enact stringent decrees to arrest its progress.

my notes: in a nut shell the reformation fail because of the Sabbath issue. if Luther had put all his faith in the bible he would have won at the council at Trent. but he fail to see it and lost.
The Bible teaches that the sabbath issue will arise again but this time it will be world wide. The bible teaches that at the end of time there will only be two religion. Adventist and Catholic. All other religion will convert to Catholic, ALL of them, Buda, muslim, almost all protestants except seventh day Adventist, well some of them anyway. and we can see that happening today at a very fast passe. that is… if the Bible is correct.
revelation tells us that only 144,000 will make it at the end.

1. From whom did the church get its authority?
   The Catholic Church gets its authority from Christ. I’m not sure where any other “church” received its authority, but Jesus only instituted one (the Catholic Church).

“the retention of the old Pagan name of ‘Dies Solis’, or Sunday … is, in great measure, owing to the union of Pagan and Christian sentiments with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects, Pagan and Christian alike, as the ‘Venerable day of the Sun’”.
History of the Eastern Church, p. 184

“we are told by Eusebius that Constantine, in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen, transferred into it the outward ornaments to which they had been accustomed in their own”
Development of Christian Doctrine, P. 372

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[dnelson001]

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1. Did God tell the pope to bring all the pagans symbols and ornaments?
   Loaded question. See The Catholic Answers tract for more info debunking this.

Christian confiding then in the power of Christianity to resist the infection of evil and to transmute the very instrument and appendages of DEMON worship to an evangelical use.
The use of temples and these dedicated to particular Saints and ornamented on occasion with branches of trees, incense, lamps, candles, vote of offerings to recover from illness, holy water, asylums, holy days and seasons, the use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fails, Sacridoto (don’t know exactly what this means), vestment, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the east, images at later date, ALL are of pagan origins and sanctified by their adoption into the church.
The development of Christian doctrine, page 371 – 373; by Cardinal Newman

1. Who has more authority? God or the church?
   Another insulting question. The Church only has the authority granted to Her by God.

God’s power is infinite. Of course God has more authority. But that doesn’t mean that the Church doesn’t have any authority, nor does it mean that the two are ever in contradiction.

1. Do you believe that the church sees itself as baptize paganism?
   Again, poor phrasing makes it difficult for me to understand what he is asking.

“Christianity became an established religion in the Roman Empire and took the place of Paganism… Christianity as it existed in the Dark Ages might be termed Baptized Paganism.”
Church History, century 2, Chapter 2, Sec. 7

1. Does the priest have more power than God?
   Again, insulting. See the answer to question 14, except replace the word “Church” with the word “priest.”

“thou art a priest forever: says the ordaining bishop… He is no longer a man, a sinful child of Adam, but an “Alter Christus”, another Christ… Forever a priest of the most high, with power over the Almighty.”
The Catholic Priest. page 78

1. Does the church teach that the pope is Jesus Christ Himself?
   Of course not. That is ridiculous. The only people that believe the Church teaches that are non-Catholics.

“The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.”
The Catholic National. July 1895

All names in the scripture that are applied to Christ, by virtue of witch it is established that he is over the church; all the same names are applied to the pope.
The authority of the councils, number 2, chapter 17, volume 2, pag 266, edition 1619.

1. Does the Church want the USA to be identacle to her government?
   Again, it is not clear what this question is asking.

But Civilta Cattolica, house organ of the Jesuit says quite frankly… ‘Fascism is the regime that corresponds most closely to the concepts of the Church of Rome.

Days of Our Years, Pierre Van Paassen (New York: Hillman-Curl, Inc., 1939) p. 465

1. Do you believe that priest should join Masonic Lodges?
   Considering the Church has repeatedly and specifically forbidden Catholics from joining the Masons, the answer, of course, is “No.”

The Opus Dei is a semi-secret religious lay order whose paramount objective is total support of the papacy and of the most conservative principals of the Catholic Church [the Council of Trent]… its members have dedicated themselves, with their personal and corporate wealth, to the blind instrument of the church [the Jesuit general]… Then one day in 1974, the Vatican give official permission for Catholics to join a Masonic Lodge.”
Avro Manhattan, 1983, “Protestant” Knight of Malta, English Historian
The Vatican Billions, Avro Manhattan (Chino California Chick Publications 1983) p 256, 231​

Masonic Lodge in Italy appoints Catholic priest as chaplain, claims “openness” to Catholic Church
catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=4581
note: Catholic priest can join Masonic Lodges because they have permission to do so if they please ever since 1974.

1. Did the Bible or Peter change the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday?
   Repeat question. See Acts 20:7.

The bible says remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic Church says No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And lo the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church.”
Father Enright, American Sentinal Jane 1893

 

[dnelson001]

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1. Who is responsible for the big bang theory?
   Hmm, I didn’t know this. According to Wikipedia, it was Georges Lemaître, a Catholic priest. I’m sure your Adventist friend hopes this is evidence that the Catholic Church doesn’t believe in Genesis and we are anti-scriptural. Unfortunately (for him), this doesn’t have the implications your friend would hope.

First, even if the Big Bang theory did contradict Scripture, it doesn’t mean anything. Individual priests do not possess the charism of infallibility. They do make mistakes.

Second, the Big Bang theory does not contradict Genesis because Genesis is not meant to be taken literalistically. Genesis is very sparse with its descriptive details because it is not a newspaper account of creation.

Recall the old bumper sticker: “The Big Bang Theory: God spoke and BANG, it happened.”

Catholic Priest: Georges Lemaître from Belgium - responsible for the big bang
Decorated by the pope: answers.com/topic/georges-lema-tre

Evolution could not exist without the bigbang theory. that says it all.
Please see question number 8.

1. What bible did the Catholic Church use in the dark ages?
   First, the “Dark Ages” is a term most modern history scholars avoid using. I would imagine the Church used the Vulgate. Whatever translation they used, it sure wasn’t English. In any case, it wasn’t missing seven books in the Old Testament.

Relation with the Old Latin Bible
The Vetus Latina remained in use in some circles even after Jerome’s Vulgate became the accepted standard throughout the Western Church. Throughout Late Antiquity and most of the Middle Ages, the name Vulgata was applied to the Greek Bible, but eventually the acceptance of Jerome’s version far exceeded that of the Vetus Latina. By the 13th century it had come to be called the editio vulgata, a Latin analogue to the older Greek editio vulgata.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate
note: It was what we call today. The KJV, just not in English

1. Can the Pope do everything that God can do? If the Pope can over rule every thing that God say and God cant change anything that the Pope say then I guess we are better off worshipping the Pope?
   Didn’t I answer this already? The Pope has only the authority given to him by God. No more. No less. So, no, he can’t do everything God can do. (Again, I feel a tad insulted that I even need to say that.)

The Bull Unam Sanctam… Issued by POPE BONIFACE VIII thus reads: ”The Roman Pontiff judges all men, but is judged by no one. We declare, assert, define and pronounce: to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every human creature necessary for salvation … I have the authority of the King of Kings. I am all in all and above all, so that God himself and I, the vicar of God, have but one consistory, and I am able to do all that God can do.”
Note: If the Pope can overrule everything that God say and God can’t change anything that the Pope say then I guess we are better off worshipping the Pope?

All these quotes are from Catholic sources. it all started a few months ago when i met Mr. Gary at work. no im not a theologion or anything like that. i was talking to Mr. Gary and he was telling me that there are a lot of people out there that say a lot of things about the Catholic church. but it is just because it is the true church. i though about that and it made a lot of sense. the Bible says that the true church will be persecuted and if that is hapening then that is in line with the bible.
so i decided to find out were they are getting there information from. and i found out that is comes from the very organization.
as you can see what i have found really dont need any explanation.

 

[Joe_5859]

Welcome to CAF, dnelson001!

I’ll be honest, I didn’t read through all of your posts. If you are sincerely interested in answers, I would really recommend starting a separate thread for each issue (and before you do that, I would recommend searching the forums as many of these topics have been discussed before). It’s hard to meaningfully engage in so many different discussions in the same thread. It will get really confusing really fast (at least, for me! ).

I will say, in general, it is always a good idea to go to the original sources and look at the quotes in context. As I’m sure you’d agree, many people quote Scripture out of context which leads to erroneous interpretations or bogus claims that Scripture is self-contradictory. The same things happens with Church documents (in relation to Scripture and in relation to other Church documents).

If you want a definitive Catholic source for Catholic teaching, look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Use the search feature, browse through the table of contents or use the index. If you have trouble finding something specific, let me know and I’ll be happy to point you to the right place.

Further, the only way to truly come to understand what another believes is to assume good will on their part. If the Catechism of the Catholic Church says something that appears to contradict the quotes you have posted, give Catholics the benefit of the doubt. Try to reflect on how one might reconcile the two seemingly contradictory statements. Whether you agree or disagree with what the Church teaches, the Catholic Church is sincere in what She believes and teaches. People don’t like holding contradictory beliefs.

So I see three options:
(1) Priests, bishops, and even the pope are completely unaware of the quotes you provided (which is very unlikely);
(2) Priests, bishops, and even the pope are willfully deceiving over a billion people world-wide about a belief system they know to be contradictory (which I also find very unlikely); or
(3) Priests, bishops, and the pope have a different understanding of the quotes you provided than you do.

Of course, I believe the answer is #3. If #3 is the answer, then, I believe it behooves us to research the issue further. I can try to help you out in some ways, but I will be upfront that I simply don’t have the time to fully answer all of the above questions. You’ll have to do some of the legwork yourself. Is there one of the above questions that is most weighing on you right now that you would most like to see answered?

 

[dnelson001]

Hi Joe 5859 it s a pleasure to meet you.

i know that i went all over the place with s many questions. for that i apologize, the questions were not original for this forum as you know. i was referred to the Forum by a friend.

well one is just as important as the other to me, what will you say if we start at number one to keep the order of things. this is my first time on this forum and i don’t know were to go.

i believe that one at a time will be most beneficiary as well.

before we start i will like to know were can i find source that is credible. i know for a fact that most of my sources are credible and they would not print anything with out the church approval.
i will double check to see just how credible they are , because i could have made a mistake as well.
i must admit that i did not check there credibility because i know them to be very respected in there circles. but i will bet on that right away.
also i have herd that these things can sometimes get very insulting. I am a very respectful person and i like to be treated that way.
i will not be saying anything that i have not read in the church documents.
with that said… point the way my friend, I’m all ears.

also i would recommend that you read what i have found so you will know were I’m coming from. other wise it would be like if you give me a source and i say that it does not make sense to me so i did not read it. because i believe something else. that will be a waste of your time and mine. i promise to verify what you give me but i expect no less on your part as well.
also i will like to know from you what documents are infallible in relation to the church?
thank you and God bless.

Ps. i will try ti keep it short next time.

Welcome to CAF, dnelson001!

So I see three options:
(1) Priests, bishops, and even the pope are completely unaware of the quotes you provided (which is very unlikely);
(2) Priests, bishops, and even the pope are willfully deceiving over a billion people world-wide about a belief system they know to be contradictory (which I also find very unlikely); or
(3) Priests, bishops, and the pope have a different understanding of the quotes you provided than you do.

Of course, I believe the answer is #3. If #3 is the answer, then, I believe it behooves us to research the issue further. I can try to help you out in some ways, but I will be upfront that I simply don’t have the time to fully answer all of the above questions. You’ll have to do some of the legwork yourself. Is there one of the above questions that is most weighing on you right now that you would most like to see answered?

 

[estesbob]

also i would recommend that you read what i have found so you will know were I’m coming from. other wise it would be like if you give me a source and i say that it does not make sense to me so i did not read it. because i believe something else. that will be a waste of your time and mine. i promise to verify what you give me but i expect no less on your part as well.
also i will like to know from you what documents are infallible in relation to the church?
thank you and God bless.

Ps. i will try ti keep it short next time.

I have read what you posted-its the same tired old talking posts that have been cut n pasted here hundreds of times over the years. The idea that one can google up a few out of context quotes and that makes them an expert on catholic theology is specious.

I suggest start a thread for each of the areas you have a question about and perhpas instead of cut n pasting others thoughts join in a real discussion. You might actually learn what it is catholics beleive other than haveing others tell you what Catholics beleive

 

[wmscott]

I have read what you posted-its the same tired old talking posts that have been cut n pasted here hundreds of times over the years. The idea that one can google up a few out of context quotes and that makes them an expert on catholic theology is specious.

I suggest start a thread for each of the areas you have a question about and perhpas instead of cut n pasting others thoughts join in a real discussion. You might actually learn what it is catholics beleive other than haveing others tell you what Catholics beleive

You Said It Brother!!!

 

[wmscott]

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Catholic Priest: Georges Lemaître from Belgium - responsible for the big bang
Decorated by the pope: answers.com/topic/georges-lema-tre

Evolution could not exist without the bigbang theory. that says it all.
Please see question number 8.

Relation with the Old Latin Bible
The Vetus Latina remained in use in some circles even after Jerome’s Vulgate became the accepted standard throughout the Western Church. Throughout Late Antiquity and most of the Middle Ages, the name Vulgata was applied to the Greek Bible, but eventually the acceptance of Jerome’s version far exceeded that of the Vetus Latina. By the 13th century it had come to be called the editio vulgata, a Latin analogue to the older Greek editio vulgata.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate
note: It was what we call today. The KJV, just not in English

The Bull Unam Sanctam… Issued by POPE BONIFACE VIII thus reads: ”The Roman Pontiff judges all men, but is judged by no one. We declare, assert, define and pronounce: to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every human creature necessary for salvation … I have the authority of the King of Kings. I am all in all and above all, so that God himself and I, the vicar of God, have but one consistory, and I am able to do all that God can do.”
Note: If the Pope can overrule everything that God say and God can’t change anything that the Pope say then I guess we are better off worshipping the Pope?

All these quotes are from Catholic sources. it all started a few months ago when i met Mr. Gary at work. no im not a theologion or anything like that. i was talking to Mr. Gary and he was telling me that there are a lot of people out there that say a lot of things about the Catholic church. but it is just because it is the true church. i though about that and it made a lot of sense. the Bible says that the true church will be persecuted and if that is hapening then that is in line with the bible.
so i decided to find out were they are getting there information from. and i found out that is comes from the very organization.
as you can see what i have found really dont need any explanation.

Mr dnelson001, to get this started, you have a list of 23 questions you are interested in. what is your number one question that we can discuss now. Once that is taken care of we can move on to your number two concern.

 

[estesbob]

Mr dnelson001, to get this started, you have a list of 23 questions you are interested in. what is your number one question that we can discuss now. Once that is taken care of we can move on to your number two concern.

He will also need to have a basic understanding of the Doctrine of infallibility and the place of sacred tradition in Catholic Doctirne.

For instance googling up a quote from a Jesusit book proves nothing-I am a product of a Jesuit education and beleive me Jesuits are not infallible nor do they speak for the church. I suspect he will also need to learn the difference between infallibe and impecable.

The imprtance of Sacred traidtion is applicable when he makes claims like scripture does not say we should sanctify Sunday. Up until the 1840s neither the Church or any of the thousands of Chrisitan denominations had a problem with Sunday Worship-in fact we can see Sunday Worship going back to the time of the apostles. We will need a lot more that “well my readng of Scripturesays this is wrong” to dispute this.

 

[jmcrae]

Evolution could not exist without the bigbang theory. that says it all.

Actually, the theory of evolution was doing just fine for about 60 years before the theory of the Big Bang came into existence. In fact, it was evolutionists who first rejected the idea of the Big Bang, since it refers to a moment of cosmic creation, which the evolutionists were trying to disprove - they were wanting to say that the Universe has no beginning and no ending - it is eternal.

The Bull Unam Sanctam… Issued by POPE BONIFACE VIII thus reads: ”The Roman Pontiff judges all men, but is judged by no one. We declare, assert, define and pronounce: to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every human creature necessary for salvation

Actually, what he really said was, " This authority, however [referring to the spiritual authority of the Church], (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, ‘Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven’ etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

… I have the authority of the King of Kings. I am all in all and above all, so that God himself and I, the vicar of God, have but one consistory, and I am able to do all that God can do.”

I don’t find this in the text at all.

You can read it for yourself, here.

 

[wmscott]

He will also need to have a basic understanding of the Doctrine of infallibility and the place of sacred tradition in Catholic Doctirne.

For instance googling up a quote from a Jesusit book proves nothing-I am a product of a Jesuit education and beleive me Jesuits are not infallible nor do they speak for the church. I suspect he will also need to learn the difference between infallibe and impecable.

The imprtance of Sacred traidtion is applicable when he makes claims like scripture does not say we should sanctify Sunday. Up until the 1840s neither the Church or any of the thousands of Chrisitan denominations had a problem with Sunday Worship-in fact we can see Sunday Worship going back to the time of the apostles. We will need a lot more that “well my readng of Scripturesays this is wrong” to dispute this.

I agree, however being a SDA, I have a feeling that he is going to approach this from a very skewed point of view and mat not be able to comprehend Catholic doctrine. As with many Protestant denominations, Sacred Tradition is taboo, regardless if it is Biblical.

What made my jaw drop is the ignorance and veracity of the list. He would have received a more gracious response had he just asked a question rather than “cut and pasting” anti-Catholic junk.

 

[Dchsknight]

Gosh Guys. The man did come here pretty respectfully. I mean i can get pretty zealous and fired up about stuff, just ask Peter Dawson who posted on this thread and asking about another thread where i am attacking the lie he believes in. which is that Adam and Eve were a myth.

I for one want to talk with this Guy a lot more. I just became catholic this easter, i converted from Baptist Background, and I learned a **** load of stuff just from studying the scriptures to convert! I hope this guy starts a thread cause i will be there!

 

[estesbob]

Gosh Guys. The man did come here pretty respectfully. I mean i can get pretty zealous and fired up about stuff, just ask Peter Dawson who posted on this thread and asking about another thread where i am attacking the lie he believes in. which is that Adam and Eve were a myth.

I for one want to talk with this Guy a lot more. I just became catholic this easter, i converted from Baptist Background, and I learned a **** load of stuff just from studying the scriptures to convert! I hope this guy starts a thread cause i will be there!

He said

I asked these questions because I found that most Catholics are not informed as to what they believe

Folowed by huge cut n paste posts pasted from ther usual anti-catholic sources. If he wants to have a discussion he needs to narrow things down a bit and offer more than googled out of context quotes.

 

[Dchsknight]

He said

Folowed by huge cut n paste posts pasted from ther usual anti-catholic sources. If he wants to have a discussion he needs to narrow things down a bit and offer more than googled out of context quotes.

Well Guess what a lot of us, Dont know what we Believe… Simple cold truth.

The simple Cold Truth is, Most of us dont know and really Dont care.

Here is Proof… Life teen.

An amazing program and it is powerful and God is bring so many of our youth Closer to him.

We would not need Life teen how ever if we, as the teens Shepards and Parents, did our jobs.Which is to teach and correct them. Most of us cant even tell others why we pray the Rosary. Instead a powerful and Amazing tool handed to us by our Holy Mother herself, Gets chalked up as repetitive tradition to the people on the out side of the Catholic Church.

Most of you don’t even know why you are sitting in mass, you just go because it is what you done. and Some in their apathy have sunk so deep to even think that some parts of the bible are myth.

He is right, Most of us are ill-informed. and he said it with Respect and honor towards us.

 

[Philthy]

Hi every body.

Hi!

These few months I have found a lot of things but it is not what you guys are telling me.

You have been looking in the wrong places!

I was looking for some quotes that I could look up to see for myself if it is so.
What I was looking for was sources from prominent catholic authors, priest (that has something to do with the Vatican)

Forget authors and priests for now - what you should stick to is the Catechism of the Catholic Church

If you have something that contradicts what I have found please make sure it comes from credible officials. All of the sources that I am quoting are high and public officials of the church that I don’t think any Good Catholic can discredit.
Thank you very much and God bless.

Lets stick to the Catechism for now, and lets go directly to it and not a non-Catholic claiming to represent it. Fair enough? Here it is in a convenient interactive format: Saint Charles Borromeo Catholic Church of Picayune, MS - Faith - Catechism of the Catholic Church - Table of Contents

Salvation is by Mary – that is what Pope Pius IX said:

In as much as Mary gave birth to our Savior, Jesus Christ, salvation is by Mary. In addition, Mary can offer prayers to God for us. Mary does not directly save us. You misinterpreted the comments to mean more than they do. To confirm what I am saying I did something simple. I typed into the search area “Salvation by God alone” and it states in plain English what the Catholic Church teaches: “169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.” Here is the link: scborromeo.org/ccc/para/169.htm

“For the son of God became man so that we could become God.” “The only begotten son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumes our nature, so that he, might make men Gods.” Page 129
“Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ” page 228
Catechism of the Catholic Church (New York: Image Books. 1995 edition)

Did you type this stuff yourself??? Lets not do that. Here is the actual Catechism, copied and pasted, along with the link: scborromeo.org/ccc/para/460.htm

**460 **The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”

I can understand some of your confusion here, but I’m gonna give you a hint: read the basic statement of faith in the beginning as an explanation of the quotes that follow. We will partake of the divine nature and become united to Christ - become one body, the body of Christ. In that sense we become divine. I don’t like the “We become God” terminology, but it was a statement supporting the idea that we become partakers of the divine nature.

Jesuit catechism
Q. what if the Holly scripture commands one thing and the pope another contrary to it?
A. The holly scripture must be thrown aside.

This is not an official statement of the Church. More Catholics devoted their lives and died to preserve Holy Scripture than anyone else in the world. You’ll need to do better.

 

[Philthy]

Hello again!
*
Joe5859:

1. Do you believe that the pope has the power to change time and laws and even the precepts of Christ?

**

“The pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.”
Decretal De Translat. Espiscop. Cap

This is why it is a bad idea to try and re-type things. Changing “time” (as in your question) and changing “times” (the actual quote) are completely different concepts.
The pope has been granted the authority to “bind and loose” through the office of apostleship that has been carried on since the beginning through the laying on of hands. “Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.” Anyhow, is there something in Scripture that tells you the pope does not have these powers, or do you simply assume it?
Joe5859:

1. Do you believe that Sunday is the Mark of the Catholic Church?

**

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act… the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters”
Letter, Oct. 28, 1895, from C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons

“But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.”
James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

You did it again - the typing thing: Do you believe that Sunday is the Mark vs the quote you provided the act is **a MARK **. The early Church worshiped on Sundays, the first day of the week in commemoration of the Resurrection. Do you have a problem with it? Someone came here a few months back with these exact same 2 quotes from nobody of particular importance, 200 years ago, with the exact argument you are presenting. Did someone spoon feed you this or what? Did you bother to read the Catechism? Here’s a teeny tiny bit of all that the Church has to say…

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation
[2174](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2174.htm’) Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the “first day,” the day of Christ’s Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the “eighth day” following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ’s Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord’s Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106 Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath
[2175](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2175.htm’) Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord’s Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

Here’s the link: scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a3.htm#2175 Be sure to do your homework and look up the references that the CCC diligently provides for all inquiring minds. You will see that these quotes come from the immediate post-Apostolic era, from a man who was martyred for his faith and who is a trustworthy witness of Apostolic teaching and practice.

Jesuit Catechism
Q. Who is the Pope?
A. He is the vicar of Christ, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords and there is but one judgment-seat belonging to God and the Pope.

Note: if he sits with God and equal with God i would say he is a God?

You would be wrong. First off, the reference of “King of Kings and Lord of Lords” is not to the pope, but to Christ. There is nothing anywhere that says the pope is equal to God. These types of lies are created by those disinterested in the truth and with unholy motives - dont trust them!!! Please provide a link to your source!

Well evolution and creation is 2 totally opposite religion. that’s right: evolution is a religion. You would need to have more faith to believe in evolution than what you would need to believe in creation.

Neither are religions, friend. You dont know what you are talking about.

May I humbly respectfully recommend that you read what evolution teaches before trying to put those 2 religions in the same box.
Christianity teaches that man came from an intelligent creator; Evolution teaches we came from rain falling on a rock. Both require faith to believe in them.
Two very, very different religions.

May I humbly suggest that you don’t really know anything about what evolution teaches? If we are gonna be honest, lets be honest. I dont really know that much, but I can tell I know lots more than you on the topic.

 

[dnelson001]

I thank all you guys for your interest in my questions

i’m at work right now so i will not be able to post much. when i get home we can get the ball rolling.

i pay this will be beneficial to all parties.

i would like to start with question 1 please.

1. Do you believe that the holy Catholic Church teaches that there is one way to get to heaven?

i will strart to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. from scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
i got this link from Mr. Joe 5859
is this the right one, i ask because i know there is a lot of them out there. and they are not all the same.
just so every one kno this will be the one i will be looking studying and getting my information.

so please let me know if this it the right one.

thank you.

 

[jmcrae]

I thank all you guys for your interest in my questions

i’m at work right now so i will not be able to post much. when i get home we can get the ball rolling.

i pay this will be beneficial to all parties.

i would like to start with question 1 please.

1. Do you believe that the holy Catholic Church teaches that there is one way to get to heaven?

Yes, and that Way is to follow and obey Jesus Christ.

We see that He founded a Church; we trust that He did not do so for the sake of His health, or for having nothing better to do with His time; therefore, we presume that He intends for us to be members of His Church, especially since He describes it as being His very Body.

i will strart to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. from scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
i got this link from Mr. Joe 5859
is this the right one, i ask because i know there is a lot of them out there. and they are not all the same.
just so every one kno this will be the one i will be looking studying and getting my information.

so please let me know if this it the right one.

thank you.

Yes, this is the Official Catechism that was approved by Pope John Paul II in 1994.

 

[Philthy]

i would like to start with question 1 please.

1. Do you believe that the holy Catholic Church teaches that there is one way to get to heaven?

I hate to be a pain, but this question is ambiguous. Do you mean to ask is there only one way to get to heaven? Even if this is what you intend, it’s an odd question. Ultimately the only way we get to Heaven is if God judges us worthy of Heaven. All forms of Christianity would agree with that as the “one way”, despite all the theological differences, so how can the question be a useful barometer of anything? Just so you understand what I mean, let me pose another similar question: Is there one way to salvation? Well, yes and no, depending on how you look at it. Salvation is by grace and through faith - is that one way or two? I guess I’ll be patient and simply let the discussion flow…if you want to hear the truth it will be easy enough to present it. If you are convinced you already know the truth re: the Catholic Church, nothing we say will matter.
Also, while it is admiral that you would try to read the whole Catechism, you dont quite realize what an effort that would entail. Better to stick to a specific question initially…

Blessings