Can I get some help with these questions

[Patrick_Murebil]

I’d like to hear more from you Patrick, seeing as how you were once an SDA according to your profile. Why can’t we get direct answers from these guys? Where do they get all the wild stories? Are thety being taught this stuff by their Church leaders?

Hi greggy53,

Yes, I converted to the SDA church in 1978, studied to be a minister in that church, received a degree in theology from an Adventist college, and then declined a call to be a pastor and go to seminary…a long story. But a similar story to a few other former Adventists who have also converted to Catholicism, whom I met on this forum a little over a year ago.

You can do a search on this forum for threads in which I, and other former SDAs, have posted…you will find them mostly in the Non-Catholic Religions section of this forum. The discussions were quite lengthy, and at times quite heated…but you will get a pretty good view of Adventist thought regarding Catholicism.

To answer some of your other questions:

You do not get direct answers from most of the Adventists because most of them do not have answers outside of the the 27 or 28 doctrinal beliefs they have been taught. But there are Adventist who do provide better answers, even if we do not agree with them. I am currently participating in the SDA2RC Blog (a link to which appears in my signature line below), and it is a more refined and civilized dialog there.

Anti-Catholic “wild stories” are everywhere, and when you are anti-Catholic it is easy to find them…and promote them.

Their church leaders are teaching many of these things. They also get most of the story they believe from much reading of their prophetess Ellen G. White’s writings, even though they claim to believe what they do from the Bible. But it doesn’t take long to discover that much of the story they believe cannot be found in the Bible, but only in the writings of Ellen G. White.

So if you have a year or two…lol…check out the threads on here for our discussions, and check out the links below in my signature line. They contain very good information and articles written by former SDAs who have converted to Catholicism.

God bless all!!!

 

[greggy53]

Hi greggy53,

Yes, I converted to the SDA church in 1978, studied to be a minister in that church, received a degree in theology from an Adventist college, and then declined a call to be a pastor and go to seminary…a long story. But a similar story to a few other former Adventists who have also converted to Catholicism, whom I met on this forum a little over a year ago.

You can do a search on this forum for threads in which I, and other former SDAs, have posted…you will find them mostly in the Non-Catholic Religions section of this forum. The discussions were quite lengthy, and at times quite heated…but you will get a pretty good view of Adventist thought regarding Catholicism.

To answer some of your other questions:

You do not get direct answers from most of the Adventists because most of them do not have answers outside of the the 27 or 28 doctrinal beliefs they have been taught. But there are Adventist who do provide better answers, even if we do not agree with them. I am currently participating in the SDA2RC Blog (a link to which appears in my signature line below), and it is a more refined and civilized dialog there.

Anti-Catholic “wild stories” are everywhere, and when you are anti-Catholic it is easy to find them…and promote them.

Their church leaders are teaching many of these things. They also get most of the story they believe from much reading of their prophetess Ellen G. White’s writings, even though they claim to believe what they do from the Bible. But it doesn’t take long to discover that much of the story they believe cannot be found in the Bible, but only in the writings of Ellen G. White.

So if you have a year or two…lol…check out the threads on here for our discussions, and check out the links below in my signature line. They contain very good information and articles written by former SDAs who have converted to Catholicism.

God bless all!!!

Thanks, I took an interest in these guys when an SDA aquaintance came after me when he found out I was Catholic. I’d never been assaulted so strongly for my beliefs before (even by Baptists) , and it made me start doing research on the history of my faith. The more i read the more I became convinced that the Catholic church* is *the one true Church of our Lord and Savior. I will check out your links. Thanks

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Thanks, I took an interest in these guys when an SDA aquaintance came after me when he found out I was Catholic. I’d never been assaulted so strongly for my beliefs before (even by Baptists) , and it made me start doing research on the history of my faith. The more i read the more I became convinced that the Catholic church* is *the one true Church of our Lord and Savior. I will check out your links. Thanks

You’re more than welcome! Like you, the more I read the Bible and actually studied to understand the teachings of The Catholic Church, the more I was convinced that the Catholic Church is God’s One True Fold!! But bear in mind, I became an Adventist in 1978… I was just confirmed in The Catholic Church this past Easter. It was a long, at at times difficult, process… but not a day goes by that I don’t thank God for the gift of faith to see and experience His Truth in my lifetime. The Eucharist is what convinced me initially…and not surprising, since Jesus is the source and summit of our faith!!

Happy reading, and good for you for studying your faith more deeply! That is a good thing for all of us to do!

God bless all!!!

 

[greggy53]

You’re more than welcome! Like you, the more I read the Bible and actually studied to understand the teachings of The Catholic Church, the more I was convinced that the Catholic Church is God’s One True Fold!! But bear in mind, I became an Adventist in 1978… I was just confirmed in The Catholic Church this past Easter. It was a long, at at times difficult, process… but not a day goes by that I don’t thank God for the gift of faith to see and experience His Truth in my lifetime. The Eucharist is what convinced me initially…and not surprising, since Jesus is the source and summit of our faith!!

Happy reading, and good for you for studying your faith more deeply! That is a good thing for all of us to do!

God bless all!!!

It’s wonderful to hear you speak of the Holy Eucharist! My wife and I were cradle Catholics, but we left the Church (back in 1978 too!) and started a journey that took us to several Protestant denominations. Many things the Protestants teach didn’t “jive” with me, but the ONE big thing that finnally convinced me that they were wrong was Holy Communion. I never felt right about the way they treated it. I must have asked 10 different preachers why do you caution your congregation not to partake unworthily if it’s only a symbol? Only bread and grapejuice? One preacher told me that St Paul said not to partake unles you heart is right with God. I found the scripture and I read with utter astonishment: “The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord?”…That did it for me, and it wasn’t long before I had the wife convinced too. I’ts a wonderful thing I wish all our Protestant brother and sisters could share with us as well.
God Bless, and thanks for the testimony.

 

[Philthy]

Philthy;5517864:

who said i was speaking for SDA?

I certainly didnt say it dnelson. You have simply added yet another logical error to the dozens of such errors displayed on this thread. If you think I accused you of speaking for the SDA movement please show me where.

i speak for myself. what i know and believe is what i have come to understand with facts.

I know, that is what I said. Did you even read what I said???

admitting that i was mistaken on what the stars represented when all the facts states so is a sin then i guess i am guilty. holding onto something when it is proven to be wrong is plain stupidity.

I certainly havent accused of sinning or stupidity. You make errors, lots of them. Me too. Your biggest error is not exhibiting humility and a bit more caution with respect to your ability to determine “what the bible says”.

you see, that is what seperates me from you.

No, I dont think so. What separates us is that I follow the bible in this regard in humble submission to those whom Christ has chosen to lead the church, but you do not. 1 Pet 5:5-6
Likewise, you younger members (Philthy and dnelson included!) be subject to the presbyters. And all of you clothe yourselves with humility in your dealings with one another, for “God opposes the proud but bestows favor on the humble.” So humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God that he may exalt you in due time

Do we get to Jesus by Mary?
she is not, but we cant get to Jesus if it is not by her. huuum.
this is what i’m talking about see. one big confusion.

You should not mistake your confusion over my answer for my answer being confusing. That would be prideful - to assume that you are confused because my answer is inherently confusing, when in fact your intellectual limitations and your poorly worded question are the source of the confusion. You asked a poorly worded question that requires quite a bit of explaining to answer properly, and you don’t like the answer I gave because you dont understand it. Prideful response, my friend.

Do you believe that we would not have salvation if Mary had said no?
no, i main maybe, i mean yes, i dont know.

I said I dont believe it and I dont disbelieve. Would you like to see how silly the question is? Why don’t you try answering this one: Does Scripture say whether we would have salvation if Mary had said no?? Yours was another poorly worded, intellectually lacking question that is basically impossible to answer. I gave you a very good answer, but it apparently went over your head, and rather than consider that your personal limitations are the source of your confusion, you imply that there is something wrong with my answer. Yet you don’t actually critique my answer! Prideful response my friend.
dnelson:

Do you believe that Mary gave birth to the eternal God or to the body of a man that God prepared for himself (the Messiah)?

Philthy:

I believe Mary gave birth to the eternally begotten Son of God, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God. This profound mystery is known as the Incarnation.

Notice how your question is ambiguous??? Did Mary did not give birth to the Father, nor to the Holy Spirit, so it isnt accurate to say she gave birth to “the eternal God” She did not. She gave birth to Jesus of Nazareth, the eternally begotten Son of God.
My other option, from your poorly worded question, is to choose that that she gave birth to “the body of a man God prepared for himself”. This is also unsatisfactory - she didnt give birth to a “body”, she gave birth to a “person”. That person is Jesus Christ, the eternally begotten Son of God who became flesh.
If you relax a little and consider for just a second that perhaps I have something to offer to this conversation that you could benefit from it would allow the discussion to be much more fruitful for all.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ was, is, and forever shall be God? Yes and No rules apply!

Which Yes and No rules? That would be the ones you established back in Post 113:
dnelson:

Give all the explanation you want but at the end can you please sum it up in a YES or a NO. We tend to give a whole lot of explanation and never answer the question

If you are honest you will see that the answer you provide below is a perfect example of what you were accusing other of doing. Do yourself a favor - find where you answer the question, “Do you believe that Jesus Christ was, is, and forever shall be God?” with a simple yes or no.
dnelson:

well hear is something that may shock you. i belive that mary give birth to the son of God too. i belive that it was a virgin birth, i believe every thing that the bible say. i believe that God choose her because she was the best among the Jewish people in God sight.
i dont have anything againts Mary. she is the mother of our Lord and savior.
the problem is not that she give birth to the creatos on this earth, the problem is that you try to make her a god as well. unly a God should be wirshiped and prayed to. that is not biblical. and that is what is being rejected. when you say that Mary is the mother of God you make it sound like Jesus got his divinity from Mary and not from himself. that is the point that i’m trying to make.

Sorry, but you are playing dodgeball! No direct answer to the question anywhere to be found!!! You provide all sorts of extraneous info and begin to argue against straw man issues that are not part of the question (Is mary God? Should we worship Mary, Did Jesus get his Divinity from Mary, blah, blah, blah)
Come on now, you can start with a yes or a no - just like you prescribed - and add whatever explanations you need to qualify your answer… **Do you believe that Jesus Christ was, is, and forever shall be God?

Peace
**

 

[dnelson001]

My friend, you do not know anything of me, nor do you know who I am or where I come from and truly it makes no difference except that you show how resolute you are to judge with little knowledge. But let me say with all due respect, it is arrogance to believe you have the true answers to all the Bible speaks when your faith is but one in many thousands formed long after the institution of the Church by Christ. You think you can interpret Biblical prophecy but you must discredit much of the gospel to support your beliefs. No my friend, if you were as wise and “well versed” as you believe yourself to be you would not have any questions to ask in the forum. The verse I provided, like many, was direct and to the point but you as many others have a tweak interpretation to suit yourself.
Here is the Biblical interpretation historically recognized;

 

[placido]

These are very good questions. I just want to state that i’m not a theologian but God has given me a thinking mind. I will do my best to clarify these questions for you. May God help us with our understanding of his word, may it all come clear to us.
well here goes:

This pure woman is the true church. The church is not an organization or a system in the
Who is the child?
Jesus Christ is the man child according to John 20:17.

Who is the dragon?
Satan is the dragon Revelation 12:9

Ps. i will be waiting on your reply and your interpretation of the txt

The pure woman is the true church and the child is Jesus. In other words, the church gave birth to Jesus … what a revelation !!!

placido

 

[placido]

dnelson:

but how could you know that. the church did every thing possible to get rid of the bible when when that failed; she made her own. read a real bible you will learn something i promise you.

Translating the Bible into different languages, hand-copying it and protecting it from error is a very strange way of getting rid of the Bible. Shows you are illiterate when it comes to church history.
IAnd if the Catholic made her own bible, why did all bible versions before 1500’s have more than 66 books? It seems your “real Bible” was invented after the 1500’s.

placido

 

[greggy53]

The true church was founded AGAIN long long after the Catholic Church because that is what the bible predicted. The bible said that she would be in hiding for 1260 years. .

Where exactly does the Bible say this?

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

The true church was founded AGAIN long long after the Catholic Church because that is what the bible predicted. The bible said that she would be in hiding for 1260 years. Tell me my friend. When was the Catholic church persecuted In the dark ages? Was she the persecuted or the persecutor? How long was she in power? Do you know? It was 1260 years.
Would think to change times and laws. Who tried to change the law of God? The church. What calendar we use today? Gregorian calendar, and who is this Gregory? A Pope.

I gather you believe that the woman was or is Mary. Ok I will give you the benefit of a doubt. When was Mary persecuted for 1260 years? Or if you prefer to not take it prophetically, then take it literally. When was she persecuted for 1260 days or 3.5 years or 42 months? Remember that a biblical month had 30 days each.

Hi dnelson001,

For you and anyone interested here are two good articles by a former SDA which sheds some light on the 1260 day period dnelson points out above. There are many other great articles pointing out the errors of Adventists regarding the 2300 day prophecy, The Catholic Church as being the whore of Babylon, the Pope being the anti-christ etc. I would be happy to post links to them here if you are interested and don’t feel like wading through the websites listed in my signature below…but I would highly recommend taking a leisurly stroll through those sites linked below.

Until then…here are two good articles found at this site: diesdomini.com/Catholic/essays.html

EXEGETICAL ESSAYS

All essays in PDF format.
Copyrighted; request permission for reproduction.
Prophetic Interpretation

1. Temporal Discrepencies in the Adventist Reading of Rev 11:1-13: A Brief Correction (3 pp.)
2. “Abysmal” Inconsistencies: A Note on the Beasts of
   Rev 11,17 (2)

God bless all!!!

 

[Philthy]

Catholics do not kneel to Statues. WE kneel to God. You are obviously someone who has never been to Mass. Get your facts straight and learn what we Believe before you throw lies in our Face… Coward… You dare throw about lies instead of face God himself in his own house…

Conduct Rules

Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks, threats, and crude or sexually-explicit language, rude comments and innuendo.

 

[Joe_5859]

Conduct Rules

Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks, threats, and crude or sexually-explicit language, rude comments and innuendo.

I think the blood pressure is rising in this thread. It seems that’s how these things usually go.

 

[placido]

The true church was founded AGAIN long long after the Catholic Church because that is what the bible predicted. The bible said that she would be in hiding for 1260 years.

That is what some deceitful workman told you, but that is not what the Bible says. Just read the text again, you won’t find “the Church shall be in hiding for 1260 years”.

Tell me my friend. When was the Catholic church persecuted In the dark ages? Was she the persecuted or the persecutor?

Why speciffically in the dark ages? Why not before or after the dark ages? Ah, I know why you are avoiding the period before the so-called dark ages … all martyrs of that period were Catholic.

Would think to change times and laws. Who tried to change the law of God? The church. What calendar we use today? Gregorian calendar, and who is this Gregory? A Pope.

This is comical, believe you me.

placido

 

[greggy53]

Pope Gregory the Great (my patron Saint) was a wonderful man! Mathematician, Musician, and man of God. The calander he gave us still works pretty good too!

 

[placido]

dnelson001:

The true church was founded AGAIN long long after the Catholic Church because that is what the bible predicted. The bible said that she would be in hiding for 1260 years.

Dnelson makes the funny claim of a second founding of the church because the first one founded by Jesus Christ Himself apparently ended in failure. As if that was not funny enough, Dnelson had to use Pope Gregory’s calender (!?) to calculate the years …

placido

 

[estesbob]

Dnelson makes the funny claim of a second founding of the church because the first one founded by Jesus Christ Himself apparently ended in failure. As if that was not funny enough, Dnelson had to use Pope Gregory’s calender (!?) to calculate the years …

placido

I also take issue with the SDA contention that a prophecy day equals a year. In the Psalms it repeatedly says a day is a thousand years. of course I find all this prophecy speculation to be nonsense(Gnosticism personified) but if one in going to buy into this nonsense at least be consistent.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hi greggy53,

Yes, I converted to the SDA church in 1978, studied to be a minister in that church, received a degree in theology from an Adventist college, and then declined a call to be a pastor and go to seminary…a long story. But a similar story to a few other former Adventists who have also converted to Catholicism, whom I met on this forum a little over a year ago.

You can do a search on this forum for threads in which I, and other former SDAs, have posted…you will find them mostly in the Non-Catholic Religions section of this forum. The discussions were quite lengthy, and at times quite heated…but you will get a pretty good view of Adventist thought regarding Catholicism.

To answer some of your other questions:

You do not get direct answers from most of the Adventists because most of them do not have answers outside of the the 27 or 28 doctrinal beliefs they have been taught. But there are Adventist who do provide better answers, even if we do not agree with them. I am currently participating in the SDA2RC Blog (a link to which appears in my signature line below), and it is a more refined and civilized dialog there.

Anti-Catholic “wild stories” are everywhere, and when you are anti-Catholic it is easy to find them…and promote them.

Their church leaders are teaching many of these things. They also get most of the story they believe from much reading of their prophetess Ellen G. White’s writings, even though they claim to believe what they do from the Bible. But it doesn’t take long to discover that much of the story they believe cannot be found in the Bible, but only in the writings of Ellen G. White.

So if you have a year or two…lol…check out the threads on here for our discussions, and check out the links below in my signature line. They contain very good information and articles written by former SDAs who have converted to Catholicism.

God bless all!!!

Have you any idea whether there is such a thing as an official policy or outlook or attitude on or to Catholicism ? The fact of hostility to Catholicism is not really much of a clue - the CC is rather “ecumenism-minded”, officially at least; but a SDA or a Protestant could be pardoned for thinking this was not so ​

Or is the SDA Church arranged in such a way that the question, at least in the form asked, is meaningless ?

Thanks

We return to our advertised programme…

 

[Des]

mity strong words brother.
i will tell you what foolishness is. it is to kneel down and pray to a pease of wood and a pease of stone. foolishness is to come and give thansk to a pease of wood and a pease of stone for your blessings. but you are a very very smart person i believe.

may God bless you

On the contrary I will tell you what foolishness is. Foolishness is when someone tells me the condition of my heart, when I’m bowing down before a statue of Jesus, Mary or any of the Saints. Venerating is very real, and very Biblical. And you’d be lying if you were to tell me, you feel or felt nothing now or when you or your sda brethren were kids, and saw pics of Jesus in your stories or books.

I know an sda who was deeply moved after viewing ‘The Passion Of The Christ’. I bet many sda’s saw this and were moved. Tell me they weren’t.

But gee, that would be venerating an image wouldn’t it. And he/she wouldn’t even realize it.

 

[Dchsknight]

Conduct Rules

Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks, threats, and crude or sexually-explicit language, rude comments and innuendo.

Rules be damned… I will not be quite or Silent when some one openly attacks our Faith over and over and over. I can be silent for a bit, and I was, but when they rape our home, the Catholic church, I refuse to be quite.

When people do that in my presence, they best be ready for a fight. Because as a band so eloquently put it in, “Game on” by Disciple

“I’m not afraid of loving my enemies
Turning the other cheek
Blessing those that would curse me
I honestly want peace with you
But when you come against my country
When you come against my family
You try to destroy my people
I can’t just stand by
There’s no way that I can stand by
This time, I will not stand by
I am coming, and if I come, then pain is coming with me
I’m coming, and pain will be with me”

And as some one else put it so plainly, “All it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men to stand by and do nothing.”

 

[dnelson001]

I’d like to say the same thing back to you. Can you supply us with a quote from the Pope saying he’s sorry for Catholics killing Jews? I know he apologized for members of the Church failing them by their silence when the Holocaust took place. I know Catholics also saved many Jews during the Holocaust. The way you twist not only God’s word but other’s words around is remarkable.

my friend Hitler was a catholic, and he was very good friend with biships and priest. the helped him caried out what he wanted to do.
and if you dont know anything about the time when the church was in power over all the earth you should look it up.
do youthink he was apoligizing because he was sorry fo all the cruelty? i dont think to. if you notise he never said what he was sorry for. he maid shore to stay away from that point. when the Catholic churcj rule the world again we will see what she will do again.
the bible says that the catholic church will rule the world again, one last time. now that should make you hapy. at least you can have the pease of mind that you will be in power again over all the world.

She is human, and the last time I checked, very fallible. She has no authority over myself or even you. She has erred in her prophesy making her a false prophet yet so many are brainwashed into still believing this heresy preached. She was in grave error leading many then and millions now astray from the Holy Catholic Church. The Bible mentions ones like her.

no my friend. she is not a pope and yes she is falible. i dont know whay you are trying to pin your beliefe on me for. i dont belive that no human is falible. not even spitits, only God.
but since you want to talk about false profits lets do that.
who is you prophet? do you even know? you just might, who knows? well let me tell you who your prophet is. ir is the virgin Mary.
you say thart mary is with god and Jesus would do anything for Mary. you claim that Mary is the church and she is infalible. so tell me? what did the infalible lady of fatima tell 3 little children. how many pope was to rain after that pope that was raining then. did she not say that there would be 2 more popes and then the end of time. so after John paul daid it would be the end of times. well did that come true. so tell me is she is true prophet? she lied to you all or she did not know what she was talking about. the imfalible mary prediction did not come through. what kind of prophet does that make her? do you know the answer my friend? a false prophet is the correct answer.

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

well listin to you! quoting scripture and everything. telling me that i’m unlearn. when i can acualy explain what i read. you on the other hand cant expaint in your own words what you believe. so you can read that vers again but this time understanding who it is referring to.

Your church and it’s teaching are a new invention and has only been in existence for about 7% of the time since Christianity first existed.

and yours been arounf long before Jesus was burn just under a diferent name.

dnelson001, you never came here for answers to your questions but to propagate lies and deceit. Nothing you said that I have read has any truth or logic to it. You preach to us like you have some infallible direct link to the Holy Spirit that Over a Billion other Christians don’t. You have been duped by a false prophet, and brainwashed like millions of your other brethren from this cult you call a church. Stop wasting your life away trying to bring down Christ’s Bride my friend because it will never happen. We have His promise that She remain with us till the end.

Jesus came to earth so we can have a direct link to god, but you dont want to hear that, you prefere to get to hin praying to a pease of wood.
you claim that i came to propagate lies and deceit. but every thing that i have said is what the church has said. i get every thing from you. and you call me a lier.
in case you dont knw i came here to get answer as to what you believe. not for you to quote someone else. many have given me quotes from other people but they cant explain what it is im suppose to be reading.
you want me to read a whole lot of thing from other people. i did not com here for that. i came to find out what you believe. i traid to make it simple with just yes and now. some said yes and some said no, and some said yes and no. you are all devided on what you believe.

may God bless friend