Can I get some help with these questions

[jmcrae]

can you tell me were did you find the word pope in the bible? ok lets say he did. were in the bible did jesus say that when he died you needed a new one?

It is because the Church is God’s Kingdom on Earth. If the Prime Minister has died, you need a new one, until the Kingdom comes to an end - but God’s Kingdom will never come to an end, so we will always need Popes (the Pope is kind of the Prime Minister of God’s Kingdom on earth).

 

[zach_dunn]

Where’s dnelson001!!! Awwwwww, I was hoping he would answer my posts before I had to go…

Oh well, I’ll just have to wait until tomorrow.

Zach

 

[dnelson001]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Rome

*I copied this from a secular source. Our SDA friends not trusting Catholic ones.*The Damasine list, 382 AD
The “Damasine list”, issued by Pope Damasus I at the council is as follows:

who do you think you are kidding?
you have to do a lot better than that.

well i can copy past something for you as well from the same source.

A Biblical canon or canon of scripture[1] is a list or set of Biblical books considered to be authoritative as scripture by a particular religious community, generally in Judaism or Christianity. **The term itself was first coined by Christians, but the idea is found in Jewish sources.**2] The internal wording of the text can also be specified, for example: the Masoretic Text is the canonical text for Judaism, and the King James Version is the canonical text for the King-James-Only Movement, but this is not the general meaning of canon.
…

These canonical books have been developed through debate and agreement by the religious authorities of their respective faiths. Believers consider these canonical books to be inspired by God or to express the authoritative history of the relationship between God and his people. Books excluded from a particular canon are considered non-canonical — however, many disputed books considered non-canonical or even apocryphal by some are considered Biblical apocrypha or Deuterocanonical or fully canonical, by others. There are differences between the Jewish and Christian canons, and between the canons of different Christian denominations. The differing criteria and processes of canonization dictate what the communities regard as the inspired books.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

i would like to take this time to say soemthing.
I’m in no way trying to bach Catholic Christians. I have a lot of Catholic friends. I have found Catholics to be some of the most loving and caring people. in many respect Catholic Christians are more loving than most Adventist. and that is the truth as i see it.
If Adventist people were half as devoted ad Catholics i think Jeus would have come already.
I’m not atacking Catholic People. what i’m atacking is the system. she cant use the bible because the bible condemn almost every thing she does. she has to make her own otherwise her people will start to ask questions.

now if the CC has profess faith in any other God that the God of the bible i would have no problem whatsoever. but you see she profess faith in the bible, that is juts the problem.

explain this to me? how can you have faith in somehting that you can change at will?

lets say you are a great programer qnd you build a robot and program this robot to do anything you want.
you program the bot to do a sertain tast every mornig. and every morning the bot do the axact same thing every morning. not tell me something. do you have faith that that bot will do the same thing tommorow? think about it before you answer.
now if you say yes then you dont know what faith is. if you can change the behavior of somehting when ever you want to suit your needs that is not fairth.
you see the bot does not have a say in what it can do or cant do. it can only do whay it is program to do.
to hace faith is if you tell your child to do something and every morning he gets up do do that. if he has done his chores every morning, do you have faith that tommorow he will do it?
to have faith meand that you dont have any control over sercumstances. if you have control over sercumstances you dont have faith.
faith is the evedence of things not seem. we have faith because our child always has done it. what would hapen if the child just stope goingt for a week. would you have faith in him that tommorow he will do his chores? no
for you to have faith he will have to continue to give you reason to have faith in him.
the CC had robed you of your faith in God’s word and given you stories and sign.
it is very dangerouse to have faith in signs and wonders. the bible says that oin the last days the Devil will work with all manor of sign and wonders decievableness.
the bible says to have no osociations with spirits of the dead becuse they are demons impersonating the dead people. the CC has you set right up to belive in signs and wonders. what do you think is going to happen when the Devil start to give you signs and wonder to prove the CC is the right church?

the CC relies on signs to prove she is the right church.
-Jesus said : said to do not go after signs.
the CC says you shall not shorly dies (the serpant said the same thing to eve).
-Jeus said that the soul that sinneth shall die.
the CC says you can pray to idols ans statues

• Jesus said do not make any statues of any kind, do not bow down to them nor serve them
  the CC says to call me Father
  -Jesus said call no one father, for only one is your father and that is God.
  the CC says that evolution is a posibility
  -Jesus said in six days he maid heaven and earth.
  the CC worship the Queen of heaven
  -God condemn the worship of the queen of heaven
  the CC sacrifice Jesus every mass
  -the bible says Jesus was once sacrifice for us
  the CC says that she has the keys of heaven and hell
  -Jesus says I have the keys of heaven and Hell
  the CC says she can forgive sins
  -the bible says only od can forgive sins

do you know what anti means? it means to stand in the place of.

what you want to say is that the Catholic church give us our bible. that is totaly and completely false. as i said the church did every thing in its power to keep the bible out of the hands of the people. and for good reason. it was not untill the people started to get there and on a bible that they could understand that the church started to have seriouse problems.
you seams to think that back then when the CC ruled the world things was better than they are today.
do you know why America came to the the best country in the world? it was because of freedom. i ask you, freedom from what? it was freedom from the catholich church.
did you now that in the 1800 the pope could not even put foot on american soil?

this country is the best country for 2 reasons. seperation of church and state. a county with out a king and a church without a pope.

but the bible say that the CC will rule the world again. and it is only years off now by the way things are going now. Jesus said: give unto ceaser the things that are of ceaser and to God the things that are God’s. that is seperation of church and state.

May God bless you

 

[dnelson001]

Becuase she is the source of the 1260 ywear prophecy

ok so now you want to say that AEllen G White wrote the Bible too?

Seems preety clear to me that it says a 1000 years for the Lord is like a day.

you hat better read it again, because im not goingt o explainit again.
just read it again, the next tme you may see it a little better.

God bless

 

[zach_dunn]

These canonical books have been developed through debate and agreement by the religious authorities of their respective faiths. Believers consider these canonical books to be inspired by God or to express the authoritative history of the relationship between God and his people. Books excluded from a particular canon are considered non-canonical — however, many disputed books considered non-canonical or even apocryphal by some are considered Biblical apocrypha or Deuterocanonical or fully canonical, by others. There are differences between the Jewish and Christian canons, and between the canons of different Christian denominations. The differing criteria and processes of canonization dictate what the communities regard as the inspired books.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

i would like to take this time to say soemthing.
I’m in no way trying to bach Catholic Christians. I have a lot of Catholic friends. I have found Catholics to be some of the most loving and caring people. in many respect Catholic Christians are more loving than most Adventist. and that is the truth as i see it.
If Adventist people were half as devoted ad Catholics i think Jeus would have come already.
I’m not atacking Catholic People. what i’m atacking is the system. she cant use the bible because the bible condemn almost every thing she does. she has to make her own otherwise her people will start to ask questions.

now if the CC has profess faith in any other God that the God of the bible i would have no problem whatsoever. but you see she profess faith in the bible, that is juts the problem.

explain this to me? how can you have faith in somehting that you can change at will?

lets say you are a great programer qnd you build a robot and program this robot to do anything you want.
you program the bot to do a sertain tast every mornig. and every morning the bot do the axact same thing every morning. not tell me something. do you have faith that that bot will do the same thing tommorow? think about it before you answer.
now if you say yes then you dont know what faith is. if you can change the behavior of somehting when ever you want to suit your needs that is not fairth.
you see the bot does not have a say in what it can do or cant do. it can only do whay it is program to do.
to hace faith is if you tell your child to do something and every morning he gets up do do that. if he has done his chores every morning, do you have faith that tommorow he will do it?
to have faith meand that you dont have any control over sercumstances. if you have control over sercumstances you dont have faith.
faith is the evedence of things not seem. we have faith because our child always has done it. what would hapen if the child just stope goingt for a week. would you have faith in him that tommorow he will do his chores? no
for you to have faith he will have to continue to give you reason to have faith in him.
the CC had robed you of your faith in God’s word and given you stories and sign.
it is very dangerouse to have faith in signs and wonders. the bible says that oin the last days the Devil will work with all manor of sign and wonders decievableness.
the bible says to have no osociations with spirits of the dead becuse they are demons impersonating the dead people. the CC has you set right up to belive in signs and wonders. what do you think is going to happen when the Devil start to give you signs and wonder to prove the CC is the right church?

do you know what anti means? it means to stand in the place of.

what you want to say is that the Catholic church give us our bible. that is totaly and completely false. as i said the church did every thing in its power to keep the bible out of the hands of the people. and for good reason. it was not untill the people started to get there and on a bible that they could understand that the church started to have seriouse problems.
you seams to think that back then when the CC ruled the world things was better than they are today.
do you know why America came to the the best country in the world? it was because of freedom. i ask you, freedom from what? it was freedom from the catholich church.
did you now that in the 1800 the pope could not even put foot on american soil?

this country is the best country for 2 reasons. seperation of church and state. a county with out a king and a church without a pope.

but the bible say that the CC will rule the world again. and it is only years off now by the way things are going now. Jesus said: give unto ceaser the things that are of ceaser and to God the things that are God’s. that is seperation of church and state.

May God bless you

dnelson001, this is one of the most ignorant posts I’ve ever read. You have absolutely no evidence to support what you say. It’s simply lacking any kind of scholarship whatsoever.

I’m going to address your list of discrepancies below:

the CC relies on signs to prove she is the right church.
-Jesus said : said to do not go after signs.

What are you talking about? Are you talking about the four MARKS that Catholics talk about? One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic? Those are all part of the Nicene Creed, a Creed that Catholics and Protestants alike profess. They are descriptions of the Church taken from Scripture to help Christians identify Christ’s true Church, a.k.a. the Catholic Church. What verse did you paraphrase there? Just from the context of your accusation I can tell that Jesus would be telling people not to excpect signs from Him to confirm He was the Christ. It doesn’t have anything to do with the four marks of the true Church.

<–continued in next post–>

 

[zach_dunn]

the CC says you shall not shorly dies (the serpant said the same thing to eve).
-Jeus said that the soul that sinneth shall die.

Again I have no idea what you are talking about, care to inform me?

the CC says you can pray to idols ans statues

• Jesus said do not make any statues of any kind, do not bow down to them nor serve them

We don’t, we do not pray to chunks of raw material, or to plaster. We pray to the person represented by the statue. We do not use idols, here is the verse you paraphrase:

“4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.” Exodus 20:4-5

Note: If you take this in the extreme litteral sense you shouldn’t have pictures of anything anywhere, we’d all be breaking the first commandment.

Why are we not supposed to make likeness? Deuteronomy explains:

“15 Keep therefore your souls carefully. You saw not any similitude in the day that the Lord God spoke to you in Horeb from the midst of the fire: 16 Lest perhaps being deceived you might make you a graven similitude, or image of male or female.” Deuteronomy 4:15-16

It was because we hadn’t seen God that we could not make images. Now that we have seen God (as Jesus), this commandment has been fulfilled (Mt 5:17).

I have to go now but will finish tomorrow!

Pax,
Zach

 

[dnelson001]

The Church didn’t meet Luther. Luther came out from the Church, and his heresy with him.

come on men, try to hide your ignorance at least. who started the reformation? who was the CC main oponent? there is still hard feeling even untill this day.
he was only one man, one man that stand up againt a WORL POWER. now this is the work of God brethers and sisters.
God never uses a multitude to make a deference. He always used one or two personf that seams insignificant but the almight power was with them. no mather what they try they could never stop the work of God. do you realy think that one man could have maed a diference if God was not with him?
how could a single man bring the Mary and the holy Catholic Church to its knees (because you say there are the same right)?
how could one man shake the foundation of a World Power with out even lifting a finger to fight?
How could one man defiy who princes and kings dear not lift there voices to?
it was God who ratle that hous and shake the foundation and tore it down for its wickedness and injustice. but God said that the wound would heal. and brothers ans sisters we are at the climax.

Like we tried to explain to you before . If the woman in Rev with the crown of stars and moon under feet is strictly a representation of the Church then you are telling us that the Church gave birth to Jesus. Explain how that can be? It can’t, and neither you nor any other Protestant on the face of the earth can give any logical explanation of how the Church could give birth to our Lord. Therefore the woman in REV 12 who is seen in the vision giving birth to Jesus must be the virgin Mary. The moon under feet tells us she is above the changing things of this world.

let me give you th epost so ypou can read it again, nut this time slowly:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=358944&page=7

but this time i will try to put it as clear as posible to you so the next time you read it you will understand what im saying.

the Woman is not, i repeat, is not the apostolic church. it is not the apostolic church.
the church that give birth to gesus is not. i repeat, it is not the apostolic church. clear.
Jesus was born of a covenant. the covenant was not. i repeat. it was not with the apostolic church. clear.
the covenant was with israel. i repeat. it was with Israel, not the apostolic church. clear.
the starts are not the apostles. i repeat the strat are not the apostles. clear
the moon is the sacraficial service on with the old coveant was founded. the woman stands ON. i repeat. the woman is standing ON the moon. it is her foundation. it is what suports her. i repeat. the moon is holding her up.
the foundation of te old covenant was the secrificial service. it represented JESUS. i repeat. the foundation(the moon), the old covenant or church or the woman stand osn the moon(the secrificial service).
the starts are the 12 tribes of the covenant, i repteat. the represent the 12 tribes of israel.
the woman is pregnant with child. the child is not yet born and the stars are already there. i repeat the child is not yet born.
after the chiols is born the woman is giving wings and she fly away into the wildernes. i repeat. she fly away.
the woman did not have wings before. she gets wings and then she flies. question? what hapen to te moon? did she fly with the ground(moon) that was holding her up. no.
what hapen to it? it is no longer needed. jesus represented that system. the woman flies and leave the moon. that systen is no longer needed.

if you try to say that the woman was the apostolic church you had better think it over.
you will have to answer there questions.

1. how you get the disciples in the pictur befor jesus is even born.
2. how do you get the church that jesus founded before He was born.
3. were does the moon fid in all of this.

if you want to tale it literal. this is just in case. i know some of you out thee may want to take it literal.

1. were did you find Mary standing on the moon? did she when into outer space?
2. were did Mary get a crown? the last time i look Jesus was born in a stable.
3. were do you fins anywere Mary represented as a queen? not in the bible.

God bless you friend. keep sourching.

 

[dnelson001]

Again I have no idea what you are talking about, care to inform me?

glad to.
tell me friend. what hapen to a bad person when he dies? how long do he burn? tell me what the cathilic church teaches?

Pax,
Zach

i will await your replay.

God bess

 

[dnelson001]

We don’t, we do not pray to chunks of raw material, or to plaster. We pray to the person represented by the statue. We do not use idols, here is the verse you paraphrase:

tell me something. do you think that the pagans was praying to trees and rock or to the God that thouse things represented?

“4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.” Exodus 20:4-5

i see you know the verses. i wonder what excuse you have now?

Note: If you take this in the extreme litteral sense you shouldn’t have pictures of anything anywhere, we’d all be breaking the first commandment.

the problem is not images. the problem is when you try to make them represet God. and pray to them.

Why are we not supposed to make likeness? Deuteronomy explains:

“15 Keep therefore your souls carefully. You saw not any similitude in the day that the Lord God spoke to you in Horeb from the midst of the fire: 16 Lest perhaps being deceived you might make you a graven similitude, or image of male or female.” Deuteronomy 4:15-16

It was because we hadn’t seen God that we could not make images. Now that we have seen God (as Jesus), this commandment has been fulfilled (Mt 5:17).

I have to go now but will finish tomorrow!
Pax,
Zach

this is just amazing, just amazing.

May God help you

 

[Des]

Enough with the graven images command when God commanded them to make graven images ‘TWICE’ not long after and in the same book. This proves He didn’t mean not to make any kind of graven images but only meant graven images to worship. You’ve been told this already dnelson001 but your arrogance blinds you. You’ve been schooled to think this way for years so unfortunately, your ignorance of not only the Church, but of Scripture is expected.

We don’t, we do not pray to chunks of raw material, or to plaster. We pray to the person represented by the statue. We do not use idols, here is the verse you paraphrase:

Correct. We use them as venerating tools as a means to focus our thoughts on the ‘Actual’ person.

As a matter of fact, a perfect example of how man made material is used this way would be in Luke chapter 8 when the woman ‘touched’ the cloak of Christ and was healed. She didn’t touch His skin but she touched His cloak. She was so convinced that by touching His cloak, that this action ended up healing her. Christ even felt some of His power leave Him and go to her. As a matter of fact, Christ even said that she touched Him and not His cloak. You’ll have to show me the part where right after she did this, Jesus rebuked her and called her an idolater.

So do not tell us that making images are wrong to venerate when it’s clearly shown to be helpful.

Luke 8:43

43 And there was a certain woman having an issue of blood twelve years, who had bestowed all her substance on physicians, and could not be healed by any. 44 She came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment; and immediately the issue of her blood stopped. 45 And Jesus said: Who is it that touched me? And all denying, Peter and they that were with him said: Master, the multitudes throng and press thee, and dost thou say, Who touched me?

 

[Des]

i see you know the verses. i wonder what excuse you have now?

And what’s your excuse for God commanding graven images to be made right after you believe He apparently told them not to?

EXAMPLE 1)

16 And you shall put into the ark the testimony which I shall give you. 17: Thenyou shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two cubits and a half shall be its length, and a cubit and a half its breadth. 18:** And you shall make two cherubim of gold;** of hammered work shall you make them**,** on the two ends of the mercy seat. 19: Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. 20: The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.
26:1 1: "Moreover you shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen and blue and purple and scarlet stuff; with cherubim skillfully worked shall you make them….31: "And you shall make a veil of blue and purple and scarlet stuff and fine twined linen; **in skilled work shall it be made, with cherubim; **

EXAMPLE 2)

7: And the people came to Moses, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. 8: And the Lord said to Moses,** “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.” ,** 9: So** Moses made a bronze serpent,** and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live

 

[Des]

the problem is not images. the problem is when you try to make them represet God. and pray to them.

Ah, now the excuses we’ve never heard before start to come because you’re guilty of doing it yourself.

And we do not pray TO the piece of stone anymore than you dwelling on the ink and paper when looking at a picture of your loved one.

And what am I still doing here anyways. I told myself I’d not debate this with you anymore since I’d have more promise debating with my lamp post.

 

[dnelson001]

Enough with the graven images command when God commanded them to make graven images ‘TWICE’ not long after and in the same book. This proves He didn’t mean not to make any kind of graven images but only meant graven images to worship. You’ve been told this already dnelson001 but your arrogance blinds you. You’ve been schooled to think this way for years so unfortunately, your ignorance of not only the Church, but of Scripture is expected.

if you can show me were anyone was worshiping them i will take it back and apologize to you.
i never said that images are bad. in my opinion it is best to stay away from them all together. the problem is when you start to worship them as God.

Correct. We use them as venerating tools as a means to focus our thoughts on the ‘Actual’ person.

so what you are telling me is that if you dont have idols you cant worship God. what you are doing is trying to degrade the almighty to something that you can make with your hands. and i wil tell you the same thing i told tha last person.
when the pagans worship their images of stones and wood, were they worshiping the material or the God that image represented?

As a matter of fact, a perfect example of how man made material is used this way would be in Luke chapter 8 when the woman ‘touched’ the cloak of Christ and was healed. She didn’t touch His skin but she touched His cloak. She was so convinced that by touching His cloak, that this action ended up healing her. Christ even felt some of His power leave Him and go to her. As a matter of fact, Christ even said that she touched Him and not His cloak. You’ll have to show me the part where right after she did this, Jesus rebuked her and called her an idolater.

So do not tell us that making images are wrong to venerate when it’s clearly shown to be helpful.

Luke 8:43

43 And there was a certain woman having an issue of blood twelve years, who had bestowed all her substance on physicians, and could not be healed by any. 44 She came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment; and immediately the issue of her blood stopped. 45 And Jesus said: Who is it that touched me? And all denying, Peter and they that were with him said: Master, the multitudes throng and press thee, and dost thou say, Who touched me?

tell me something? was she worshiping Jesus or his garment? this is were your ignorance of the scripture comes in again see.
first of all she was considered to be unclean. if you recall she has a bloody issue right? a person that had a bloody problem was considered unclean until that issue stop.
she was hiding because she did not want anyone to see her.
for you t try to twist that passage like that goes to show how desperate you are for an excuse to worship your idols.

May Gos help you

 

[dnelson001]

And what’s your excuse for God commanding graven images to be made right after you believe He apparently told them not to?

EXAMPLE 1)

16 And you shall put into the ark the testimony which I shall give you. 17: Thenyou shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two cubits and a half shall be its length, and a cubit and a half its breadth. 18:** And you shall make two cherubim of gold;** of hammered work shall you make them**,** on the two ends of the mercy seat. 19: Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. 20: The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.
26:1 1: "Moreover you shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen and blue and purple and scarlet stuff; with cherubim skillfully worked shall you make them….31: "And you shall make a veil of blue and purple and scarlet stuff and fine twined linen; in skilled work shall it be made, with cherubim;

EXAMPLE 2)

7: And the people came to Moses, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. 8: And the Lord said to Moses,** “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.”** , 9: So** Moses made a bronze serpent**, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live

like i said.
show me were god told them to worship does images? and also, can you show me were it said that thoes images represented God?

ok God bless

 

[dnelson001]

Ah, now the excuses we’ve never heard before start to come because you’re guilty of doing it yourself.

And we do not pray TO the piece of stone anymore than you dwelling on the ink and paper when looking at a picture of your loved one.

And what am I still doing here anyways. I told myself I’d not debate this with you anymore since I’d have more promise debating with my lamp post.

you might kneel downs and pray to the pictures of your family and friends but i dont do that. you are on your own there my friend.

God bless

 

[Des]

if you can show me were anyone was worshiping them i will take it back and apologize to you.

Glad we can both agree now that God only commanded them not to make images to worship.

And can you show me where any Catholic worshipped an image? If not, then how about not using that commandment against us anymore ok.

i never said that images are bad. in my opinion it is best to stay away from them all together. the problem is when you start to worship them as God.

That is just your own personal opinion. I’ve never met a Catholic who worships a piece of stone.

so what you are telling me is that if you dont have idols you cant worship God.

I’m telling you that images and pictures help me to focus on God or the Saints in Heaven alot better than without them. That’s my preference and none of your business really.
Are you telling me when you pray to God, you think of nothing? Your mind is a blank or does the face of Jesus come to your mind or the beauty in the trees or nature or the cross? I’m going to say it’s impossible to have your mind as blank as a sheet of white paper when you pray to God. You’ll inevitably use things in your mind to make a connection to Him. Even if you think of a bright light. Same thing. I have no doubt about this whether you acknowledge it or not.

what you are doing is trying to degrade the almighty to something that you can make with your hands. and i wil tell you the same thing i told tha last person.

I’m doing nothing of the sort.

tell me something? was she worshiping Jesus or his garment? this is were your ignorance of the scripture comes in again see.

You’re turning this right back on me for some unknown reason. It was I who told you that she was not worshipping his cloak but venerating it wasn’t it. So your tactic to make yourself look good here has failed.

first of all she was considered to be unclean. if you recall she has a bloody issue right? a person that had a bloody problem was considered unclean until that issue stop.
she was hiding because she did not want anyone to see her.
for you t try to twist that passage like that goes to show how desperate you are for an excuse to worship your idols.

lol, what does that even mean. I used that Scripture as proof of venerating. Man, you really don’t get it do you.

like i said.
show me were god told them to worship does images? and also, can you show me were it said that thoes images represented God?

ok God bless

My point was to show that He commanded against His own commandment (according to your interpretation)
But you at least admit now God was talking about worship only now.
And another poster here already told you until Jesus was born, God had no face physical face that we knew of. So if it wan’t ok in the Old Testament days, it certainly should be now.
I’m assuming not one of your children’s books of the sda has a pic of ‘God the Holy Spirit’ as a dove for example? Or Jesus with a beard?

you might kneel downs and pray to the pictures of your family and friends but i don’t do that. you are on your own there my friend.

Kneeling down is out of respect and again, very Biblical.

So I’ve shown that making Graven Images is fine so long as it’s not worship.
Venerating is ok cause of the example with Jesus’ cloak
And kneeling or bowing so long as it’s not in worship is biblically fine as well. (Gen 23: 7 And Abraham stood up, and bowed himself to the people of the land, even to the children of Heth.)

So put them all together and it’s exactly what we do.

 

[twb1621]

Well Mr. Dchsknight; if lies and blasphemy can shack your faith i would i would take a better look at what kind of faith you have.
you ar intimidated for the same reason the Church was intimidated when it met with Luther.
you are intemidaed because you cant answer the simples question of your faith. yu say that the CC is the right church and has all this knowledge and infalibility and yet you can ansswer what the moon means. you say that the church s Mary, but you also say that the woman od Revelation 12 is the church as well. so now here you step into symbolism. i explain every simbol from the bible clearly. but you cannot explain anything.
you cant explain it because you are wrong. you would not venture to try because then we will have something to compere with and ooofffff. we don’t want that do we?
tell me what the Symbols are in revelation 12, that should be easy. you claim that church is infallible don’t you. she ca never be wrong. the church claims that she is the woman of revelation 12. so you cant tell me that they dont have an explanation for that chapter.
it is easy for me to be right when you are wrong.
honestly i don’t think you will answer the question because you or the CC does not have an answer. isn’t that a shame? and you cant think aor belive anything for yourself, that would be heresy and we dont want that ether.

why would you want to talk to me. you cant prove what you believe. everything is well they tell me. i have to belive what the tell me. whether it is wrong or right.

one would assume you know what you mean when you say that, but we both know you don’t. every thing is from what they have though you. you cant get the word of God to say what you want it to say so there is no other choice but to make your own and call it the word of God. 95% of what you tech is contrary to scriptures or is blatantly condemned by scripture. you don’t have any excuse. you don’t have any excuse of reasonable response so i guess you will just look for some meaningless sentence on this post and go with hat can avoid my question.
it must be frustrating for you i know. the church teaches that she is the woman but yet after almost 2000 years cant explain the symbol in revelation 12. what a shame and embarrassment.

well i guess that is the best road you can see right now. you or your church can answer the questions, so just try to brush it off and stop any one from seeing how poor your knowledge is of your own belief much less the scriptures.
im yelling at the walls huh? your ears must have splinters because i have your full attention.
“let the thread die” now this sounds more like what you really want. i ask you a question and you dont answer, and is you try to answer you don’t have any reasonable explanation that can stand up a simple questions. most of the time you don’t understand the answer that you give to all you can do is copy past it.
just think about how brain wash you would have to be to believe this. and this is a common teaching of the CC i hear:
the pagans that were converted was serving the true God and did not know it. if i recall correctly that explanation came up in this thread as well. "THE DEVIL WAS SECRETLY BREADING CHRISTIAN WITH OUT THEM KNOWING IT. now who you have though that? this is just hilarious.

OK, God bless you friend

DNelson, answer all the questions I have been asking you to answer with scripture including those pertaining to the origin of the Bible and all others verses I presented to you before you accuse and judge us. You may find yourself ashamed of what you believed and accused us of once you can credibly understand more than what you have been programmed to believe and can answer them without running away. Your beliefs violate the word of God as it is written in the scriptures and you avoid dealing with those because they do not allow for your beliefs. May the Holy Spirit open your eyes to all of the Gospel.

 

[greggy53]

but this time i will try to put it as clear as posible to you so the next time you read it you will understand what im saying.

the Woman is not, i repeat, is not the apostolic church. it is not the apostolic church.
the church that give birth to gesus is not. i repeat, it is not the apostolic church. clear.
Jesus was born of a covenant. the covenant was not. i repeat. it was not with the apostolic church. clear.
.

You were the one who said the woman in Rev 12 only represented the “Pure Church” not me. I said that if the child is an allusion to Jesus then the woman giving birth to him is an allusion to Mary. Clear?

 

[twb1621]

it is a compilation of different writing from many different inspired writers. it is the inspired word of God.

Christians called for its formation after the disciples died for proof of what they believe.
2 timoty 3:14-17
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

tell me? where does it say we get our doctrine from?does it say from the pope or from the church?
and please dont show your ignorane and try to separate the 2. because you cannot have the church with out a pope and you cant have a pope without a church. so if you try to answer with that just know that it is ignorance that is talking.

by King James of England. He had the manuscripts. they translated the bible we use today. well, the credible ones anyway.
we know that it was not the CC because she was trying to destroy all the bibles. isn’t that right. but how could you know that. they did not tell you that right? If they don’t tell you, you are not going to know, and you dear not look into it. oh my, that is ground for excommunication. that is live forever burning in hell, God said that the sinner will die but the church say God is a Lear. the sinner will never die, he will live forever in hell.
well if the church say that she must be right; right? we can’t put Gods word above the church, ho no, no, no, no, no, not. if anyone is wrong it is God.

well it was King James again. God inspired his translators to know what books did not contradict his word.
you see what could not find in the word of God you would have to make up or just to just get somene ot make it up for you.
eg 2 macabees 15:37-39
37: Thus went it with Nicanor: and from that time forth the Hebrews had the city in their power. And here will I make an end.
38: And if I have done well, and as is fitting the story, it is that which I desired: but if slenderly and meanly, it is that which I could attain unto.
39: For as it is hurtful to drink wine or water alone; and as wine mingled with water is pleasant, and delighteth the taste: even so speech finely framed delighteth the ears of them that read the story. And here shall be an end.

i know you dont understand what it say so i will not ask you. what this writer is saying is that he dont know what he is writing, he is definitely not inspired, i dont thing i have to point that out. well maybe i do. he said: if it is correct what he wrote that is what he was trying to do, but if it is not it is the best he could do. he himself did not even know it he was right. but you base your teaching on these books that are not inspired. if it was inspired you would not find contradiction with the rest of the bible.

the canon was determine by sensible God fairing Christians. in other words God decided what was going to be in the cannon.
God said. heaven and earth shall pass away but his word shall not pass away. if the CC could have destroyed every bible in existence she would have. or at least keep it out of the hands of you and me would have done just as well.

2 timoty 3:14-17
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

you see what you are trying to do is separate God from his word. something that is not possible.

because Gods people needed to know the truth for themselves, were there is no knowledge the people perish.
once again you are trying to seperate God from his word as thou he has nothing to do with it. but this is what you believe. Gods word is not trust worthy.

done that.

now if you don’t believe what i said then prove me wrong. lets see what you come up with?
so, here is your answers, hope you are satisfied.
i bet you though i was going to give some bogus replay din’t you? it seams i’m a lot smarter than you

Yours in Christ also

OK i’m ready for this one.

Oh, my, this boys beliefs are distorted beyond any recognition. DNelson please offer a historic credible proof of these claims. And I am not asking for proof that King James took the then existing Bible and altered it either. While you are at it, explain how the canonized books in King James are also in the bible versions during the entire time you claim the Church was hiding out. answer all the questions I have been asking you to answer with scripture

 

[greggy53]

Oh, my, this boys beliefs are distorted beyond any recognition. DNelson please offer a historic credible proof of these claims. And I am not asking for proof that King James took the then existing Bible and altered it either. While you are at it, explain how the canonized books in King James are also in the bible versions during the entire time you claim the Church was hiding out. answer all the questions I have been asking you to answer with scripture

He can’t. He has shown that time and time again. When confronted with the verifiable truth he resorts to insults. He is making it up as he goes. Watch, he will follow up with more insults and baseless accusations.