Can I go visit everything at my local Mormon Temple?

[cestusdei]

I remember the DC temple. On the overpass as you come around the beltway someone always put up some graffiti. It said, “Welcome to Oz.” It was so appropriate. It looked like you were approaching Emerald City. At the visitors center I asked during q&a time “so how many wives did Smith really have?” That got me banished to a booth that showed mormon propaganda films non stop lol. It was worth it.

Our Cathedrals are beautiful and open to all. They are used. They preach and teach even when no service is going on. No mormon building even comes close to our great cathedrals.

 

[Allweather]

Our Cathedrals are beautiful and open to all. They are used. They preach and teach even when no service is going on. No mormon building even comes close to our great cathedrals.

Very true. Personally, I’m not all that fond of the Mormon architecture. Not that there aren’t things to like about it, but there isn’t anything to them inspiring of worship. But then, Mormons don’t seem to be all that interested in worship, so we shouldn’t be surprised that their architecture is cold and forbidding.

 

[majick275]

while i am a big fan of traditional catholic cathedrals (Koln germany is especially awesome), there are some incredibly beautiful mormon temples. san diego, CA would be my pick for most impressive.

 

[jstayii]

Very true. Personally, I’m not all that fond of the Mormon architecture. Not that there aren’t things to like about it, but there isn’t anything to them inspiring of worship. But then, Mormons don’t seem to be all that interested in worship, so we shouldn’t be surprised that their architecture is cold and forbidding.

Who are you to say we aren’t interested in worship? Have you actually experienced being a Mormon? Have you read the Book of Mormon? Have you been to a Mormon service? Have you been baptized a Mormon and entered a Mormon temple as so? The only person I see qualified to do so that is currently Catholic is the former Priest who wrote that article listed above, who actually became Mormon, became temple worthy, and decided it wasn’t for him (he never mentioned why) and came back. I think he was very respectful and did not seem to demean the worship that does go on in a Temple - that was an excellent description! Let’s learn from each other, not judge each others religions based on hearsay and observation.

 

[jstayii]

OK, waiting for your citations.

You’re asking me to point out flaws in people in the Catholic church? Are you saying you’re sinless? Have you never told a lie? My apologies if this offends anyone here, but I can think of even higher level issues of Child Sex Abuse in the Catholic Leadership. In even earlier times I can think of Popes killing Popes, what about the Inquisition and Crusades? There are plenty of examples there. I had a good Catholic friend growing up, in which I had a crush on that used to tell me Catholics couldn’t date Mormons, yet I know many Catholics married to Mormons today (Perhaps that is true - one side or the other is breaking Catholic beliefs however. She probably just didn’t want to date me.). Again, I don’t want to bash Catholicism. I think it’s a glorious religion, and still brings people closer to Christ. My point is we are all not perfect here. Mormons and Catholics both fortunately have very strong leadership and structure behind them, and both claim to have the Priesthood to keep their churches going and keep flaws in members within the church from affecting the church as a whole. Whichever one is the church Christ established when He was on earth, we both fortunately have His merits and mercy to repent and become better. Members’ imperfections cannot be the reason to criticize any religion.

 

[majick275]

Who are you to say we aren’t interested in worship? Have you actually experienced being a Mormon? Have you read the Book of Mormon? Have you been to a Mormon service? Have you been baptized a Mormon and entered a Mormon temple as so? The only person I see qualified to do so that is currently Catholic is the former Priest who wrote that article listed above, who actually became Mormon, became temple worthy, and decided it wasn’t for him (he never mentioned why) and came back. I think he was very respectful and did not seem to demean the worship that does go on in a Temple - that was an excellent description! Let’s learn from each other, not judge each others religions based on hearsay and observation.

I was LDS and attended the temple frequently prior to becoming catholic. My experience is NOT hearsay.

While I might use different wording I think there is a different approach to services between mormons and catholics that appears to non-mormons as a lack of true worship amongst the LDS. I would attribute this to a combination of factors including but not limited to a lack of traditional christian symbols that many nonmormons feel contribute to a worshipful focus and atmosphere. for example there are no pictures, statues or even symbols of christ or God at all in mormon chapels or temple ordinance rooms. I would place that in the architecture category. knowing the symbols in the exterior of the temple (based on Boyd K. Packers well known writings) there is a lot symbology in the SLC temple structure but not much of it involves Christ or God. Rather it is more to teach mormon church structure. (aaronic and melchisadec priesthoods, first presidency, twelve apostles, moroni, etc.)

There is also the mormon doctrine on deity that places man as the same order of being as God just in a different development state (this especially problematic for many due to Satan’s original temptation in the bible) and conversely makes a God a repentant sinner who was redeemed and exalted with Jesus and Satan our literal siblings with all of us literally descending from Gods the father and his wives.

Next there is the structure of mormon services which in normal church meetings tends to involve various members of the congregation speaking on their view of an assigned topic. this appears more instructional than worshipful. Kind of like a more formal sunday school class. there is no congregational profession of faith or group prayers nor is there anything that would appear to the average catholic as glorifying and praising God even though everything is ended in his name. No Lord’s prayer or any other regular group activity that appears to worship God, merely instructions given in his name. prayers are given by individuals and at no time do Mormons pray directly to Jesus nor do they invoke the holy spirit outside of baptism.

Temple ceremonies are even less interactive and once again tend to be even more instructional than worshipful to the mindset of most nonmormons.

Eternal Progression as a doctrine does not appear compatible with true worship in the catholic sense. that would be like worshiping your earthly father in the hopes of growing up to be just like him. I guess it might be somewhat semantics but the distinction is huge to many.

 

[majick275]

You’re asking me to point out flaws in people in the Catholic church? Are you saying you’re sinless? Have you never told a lie? My apologies if this offends anyone here, but I can think of even higher level issues of Child Sex Abuse in the Catholic Leadership. In even earlier times I can think of Popes killing Popes, what about the Inquisition and Crusades? There are plenty of examples there. I had a good Catholic friend growing up, in which I had a crush on that used to tell me Catholics couldn’t date Mormons, yet I know many Catholics married to Mormons today (Perhaps that is true - one side or the other is breaking Catholic beliefs however. She probably just didn’t want to date me.). Again, I don’t want to bash Catholicism. I think it’s a glorious religion, and still brings people closer to Christ. My point is we are all not perfect here. Mormons and Catholics both fortunately have very strong leadership and structure behind them, and both claim to have the Priesthood to keep their churches going and keep flaws in members within the church from affecting the church as a whole. Whichever one is the church Christ established when He was on earth, we both fortunately have His merits and mercy to repent and become better. Members’ imperfections cannot be the reason to criticize any religion.

i’m pretty much in agreement with you here. I just want to point out that as a Catholic I don’t deny or fear any of those things because they are easily shown to be the actions of individuals rather than the doctrines of the church. This is a little problematic with a few things on the LDS side because of the claim to be acting on face to face revelation (direct instruction) from God. Whereas I can look at a bad pope and say what he did was wrong, I can also show that he never changed the doctrine of the church to justify his improper actions. mormons are stuck with having to accept that God told Joseph Smith to take other wives even if they were already married to someone else. Now while mormons aren’t asked or even allowed to engage in such practices today they still have to justify Joseph doing such things. that’s a little different in my mind than “actions of the members”. I agree that those aren’t always representative of a church’s doctrine.

 

[jstayii]

I was LDS and attended the temple frequently prior to becoming catholic. My experience is NOT hearsay.

I appreciate your comment majick275 - your comments were at least constructive. I agree - many of the doctrines taught in the Mormon church may not be compatible with that of Catholicism. Again, it is up to interpretation by the individual on which one is that Doctrine which Christ taught when he was on the earth.

I have received an entirely different experience than yours from going to the temple. I feel closer to Christ, and more edified in Him when I attend. Yes, there are other aspects involved therein, but they all are there with the purpose of bringing one back to our Heavenly Father through Christ. That is their purpose, nothing else. All things within center around that concept.

 

[heathernoel]

jstayii,

First, thank you for being open to replying to this thread without the overtones I am used to reading from other Mormons on this board.

Second, kind of related to the whole Temple questioning…Catholic rituals and practices are out there for the world to read and see…why is it that you can’t share what happens in your temple? Online accounts are disturbing (which I assume they are written from the p.o.v. of displeased members, so I don’t know if I should lend it much credence)…why is it that your worshipping of your Godheads is so private?

Thanks for answering!

 

[jstayii]

jstayii,

First, thank you for being open to replying to this thread without the overtones I am used to reading from other Mormons on this board.

Second, kind of related to the whole Temple questioning…Catholic rituals and practices are out there for the world to read and see…why is it that you can’t share what happens in your temple? Online accounts are disturbing (which I assume they are written from the p.o.v. of displeased members, so I don’t know if I should lend it much credence)…why is it that your worshipping of your Godheads is so private?

Thanks for answering!

Thanks! I have enjoyed being on here - most of the comments have been way more respectful than some of the other Christian forums I’ve been on. I don’t feel it appropriate, nor Christian to bash another’s religion. Instead I prefer to just educate about my own and let others make their own decisions. I hope my comments here are perceived as so.

I’m going to start with the classic answer you’ll hear by many Mormons - it’s not necessarily “private”, but “sacred”. The teachings in a Mormon temple are revered by Mormons to be some of the highest and strongest teachings about God, Christ, Heaven one can learn. We hold dear to those teachings, and see it as a personal way to worship God and our Savior, without the worries of the world. The article above by the former Mormon that also used to be a Priest in the Catholic church explained many of the practices well, and what is taught inside. We want this environment of learning and worship to remain clean, and unblemished, so we prefer to have only clean and repentant members of the Mormon church inside.

So why don’t we just share these teachings with the world, like we do with our other teachings that we send missionaries around the world preaching? Well, frankly, a lot of it just wouldn’t be understood without a firm understanding and belief in the Mormon faith first. Much of it we already do share, and as I said earlier, we are definitely not encouraged to lie about it. Frankly though, were a Catholic to attend a Mormon temple ceremony, some may find it very familiar. As the article above states, a lot of former Catholics compare some of the ordinances within to a High Mass. Again, as Mormons, we do believe our religion is the same Church that existed while Christ was on the earth, so were it to be that Church, I would have to think many of the Catholic and Mormon ordinances would have pieces that are similar. Catholics believed their church was that church, and has held those teachings over time (assuming I understand correctly). Mormons believe a few of those things to be lost, and for their religion to be restored again back to that state through Christ Himself in this dispensation. Which is right? Well, I believe that to be up to the individual and God, through prayer and worship.

Also, I think you can find a lot of the roots of Mormon temples in that of the temple in Jerusalem while Christ was on the earth. There isn’t a ton of information about it unfortunately. However, we do know that in the inner-most parts, only members of the Church were allowed within. Is it exactly the same as Mormon temples today? I don’t know. However, it is after this manner that Mormon temples are built.

 

[majick275]

I appreciate your comment majick275 - your comments were at least constructive. I agree - many of the doctrines taught in the Mormon church may not be compatible with that of Catholicism. Again, it is up to interpretation by the individual on which one is that Doctrine which Christ taught when he was on the earth.

I agree with you on this/

I have received an entirely different experience than yours from going to the temple. I feel closer to Christ, and more edified in Him when I attend. Yes, there are other aspects involved therein, but they all are there with the purpose of bringing one back to our Heavenly Father through Christ. That is their purpose, nothing else. All things within center around that concept.

perhaps I didn’t communicate effectively. I wasn’t claiming that mormons don’t experience exactly what you describe, I was saying that it is more instructional in nature and purpose than worshipful. you go and participate in the sessions in an effort to learn deeper “truths” yes? the intent would then be to get closer to God but that isn’t necessarily the same as worship.

Once again the dominant theme is in how mormons understand becoming like God. to most Christians this is an impossible goal that we should strive towards in the faith that Jesus ransoms us from the consequences of our shortcomings and we then are brought in to the presence of God in the beatific vision. Thus we enjoy all that God has to give but we never become God nor do we ever go off on our own. we worship him as God…something we can never achieve regardless of what knowledge we gain or how obedient and righteous we become. we see ourselves as his creations rather than his literal offspring.

 

[majick275]

Also, I think you can find a lot of the roots of Mormon temples in that of the temple in Jerusalem while Christ was on the earth. There isn’t a ton of information about it unfortunately. However, we do know that in the inner-most parts, only members of the Church were allowed within. Is it exactly the same as Mormon temples today? I don’t know. However, it is after this manner that Mormon temples are built.

I find this similar to the claims of some freemasons that the original Temple of solomon passed down knowledge that was then “discovered” by the knights Templar and presered in it’s most complete form by the scottish rite.

Mormons would have you believe that their Temple ordinances were “restored” by Joseph smith from the original practices.

The similarities between masonic rituals and mormon temple ceremonies are obvious to anyone knowledgeable of both. The timing of Joseph Smith becoming a freemason and when “revealed” the endowment really appear to be more than coincidence.

I think the scriptures disprove this theory as well. we actually do have a pretty detailed account of the Old testament Temple in the Bible and we see no similarities to mormon practices there. the New Testament is less detailed but does give some interesting insights particularly in Paul’s letter to the Hebrews. the OT temple was necessary to perform the carnal sacrifices for sins that Christ rendered unnecessary. The OT temple was required for intermediaries to interface with God on behalf of the people. Christ came to us in the flesh and became the intermediary once and for all so that we could all experience God for ourselves. Thus the Holy Spirit was then sent to us and we no longer needed a Temple. Look at the NT accounts of the Temple and you will see a very different usage than modern LDS. The BoM interstingly enough with it’s claimed fullness of the gospel lends no support to the LDS position either. IT mentions temples “after the fashion” of Solomons leading us to believe that it was much like the biblical temple and NOWHERE do we see any reference to the most important ordinance in the LDS Temple, the sealing ordinance known as eternal marriage. we don’t see endowments or vicarious work for the dead either. I think it a stretch to even claim washings and anointings. … so where is the LDS usage of the Temple in scripture? all in the D&C which is a modern book published by Joseph Smith and his successors.

 

[slyboots]

JStayii said…You’re asking me to point out flaws in people in the Catholic church? Are you saying you’re sinless? Have you never told a lie? My apologies if this offends anyone here, but I can think of even higher level issues of Child Sex Abuse in the Catholic Leadership. In even earlier times I can think of Popes killing Popes, what about the Inquisition and Crusades? There are plenty of examples there. I had a good Catholic friend growing up, in which I had a crush on that used to tell me Catholics couldn’t date Mormons…,
A suggestion…You were doing very well prior to this. You were respectful, informative and pleasant. Go back to that in spite of the goading my fellow Catholics are giving you.
I cannot say I can accept the truth as revealed in the Mormon faith. I will say that as far as moral, ethical, honest behavior the Mormons I have known have represented this as well or better than have my brothers and sisters of my faith.
God be with you.

 

[jstayii]

Once again the dominant theme is in how mormons understand becoming like God. to most Christians this is an impossible goal that we should strive towards in the faith that Jesus ransoms us from the consequences of our shortcomings and we then are brought in to the presence of God in the beatific vision. Thus we enjoy all that God has to give but we never become God nor do we ever go off on our own. we worship him as God…something we can never achieve regardless of what knowledge we gain or how obedient and righteous we become. we see ourselves as his creations rather than his literal offspring.

Very well put. Mormons have a strong belief in eternal increase - “life eternal”, “eternal marriage”, “eternal families”. Mormons believe one can constantly grow, become more knowledgeable, and can continue to repent and become better people. Christ is central to this plan, and makes that possible through His infinite Atonement and our repentance. We are all sinners, but according to Mormons that does not mean we cannot become better people and continually improve. We will always have a God who watches over us and rules over us - He will always be our Heavenly Father. Christ will always be our Savior, and I believe we will always worship Him for that. I do not believe we will ever be left alone. It is a glorious plan! It is an exciting plan! It is my hope and desire that this plan is true - I believe it is. I do not want my increase to end when this life is over, and I cannot imagine a just, merciful, and loving God not willing to allow that to happen.

 

[ElizaE]

jstayii,
I just wanted to thank you for being respectful of the Catholic Faith. I cannot see the truth in your religion as I see in Catholicism, but I respect you for your ability to be cool under pressure.

However, I am a bit confused about the garments. Why wear them? Are you issued a few pairs or just one? Do you wash them like regular garnmets or is there a special procedure? I am sorry if these questions are disrespectful, and if I offend, forgive me, but I become curious.

Thank you

 

[Kitty_Chan]

No, we believe in Father, Son, and Holy Ghost - we believe in them as separate glorified beings though, one in purpose.

Well… Im not sure what you mean by separate glorified beings. One in purpose seems understandable.

Now someone said they thought this was unchristian obviously there is more to this first statement, I would guess.

Then this was said later:

There is also the mormon doctrine on deity that places man as the same order of being as God just in a different development state (this especially problematic for many due to Satan’s original temptation in the bible) and conversely makes a God a repentant sinner who was redeemed and exalted with Jesus and Satan our literal siblings with all of us literally descending from Gods the father and his wives.

Is this part of the answer of the Father Son Holy Ghost??? Im gonna not say anything yet, If someone doesnt mind can this be put plainly for us not in the “know”

 

[jstayii]

I find this similar to the claims of some freemasons that the original Temple of solomon passed down knowledge that was then “discovered” by the knights Templar and presered in it’s most complete form by the scottish rite.

While Joseph Smith himself was a FreeMason, I do not believe it was those rituals that influenced his writing of the temple ceremonies. There are many ceremonies similar, but they are not exactly the same. Joseph Smith felt that while the FreeMasonry signs and tokens, along with symbols and rituals were close, they were not exactly as they were in the times of Christ. In contemplating this he then received revelation on the temple ceremonies and teachings Mormons have today.

Could it be the Mormon temple is so similar to those ceremonies and teachings of the FreeMasons because they actually were discovered from the original Temple of Solomon, and have just lost some meaning since then? This stays consistent with my point that it comes again down to, was the Gospel preserved through the Catholic church (and the Freemasons in this case) preserved in its purest form, or was the Gospel restored through Christ in this dispensation as the Mormons believe?

 

[jstayii]

I think the scriptures disprove this theory as well. we actually do have a pretty detailed account of the Old testament Temple in the Bible and we see no similarities to mormon practices there. the New Testament is less detailed but does give some interesting insights particularly in Paul’s letter to the Hebrews. the OT temple was necessary to perform the carnal sacrifices for sins that Christ rendered unnecessary. The OT temple was required for intermediaries to interface with God on behalf of the people. Christ came to us in the flesh and became the intermediary once and for all so that we could all experience God for ourselves. Thus the Holy Spirit was then sent to us and we no longer needed a Temple. Look at the NT accounts of the Temple and you will see a very different usage than modern LDS. The BoM interstingly enough with it’s claimed fullness of the gospel lends no support to the LDS position either. IT mentions temples “after the fashion” of Solomons leading us to believe that it was much like the biblical temple and NOWHERE do we see any reference to the most important ordinance in the LDS Temple, the sealing ordinance known as eternal marriage. we don’t see endowments or vicarious work for the dead either. I think it a stretch to even claim washings and anointings. … so where is the LDS usage of the Temple in scripture? all in the D&C which is a modern book published by Joseph Smith and his successors.

You are referring here mostly to the Old Testament temples. Most of the temples listed in the Book of Mormon were also pre-Christ - not much is said there either (at least not in detail) about the days during and after Christ’s reign on the earth even in the Book of Mormon. On Christ’s advent the Law of Moses was removed, and as you said, Christ became the intermediary for all, so the need for Carnal sacrifices was removed. The temple at that time was not removed however. We don’t have much information of what Christ’s new law for that temple was, and what went on in that temple at the time Christ was on earth, and shortly thereafter during Peter’s reign and the apostles. About the only information we have on that temple is Christ’s clearing of the Money Changers and the fact that Christ taught the Priests within when He was a Child.

In Matthew 24, ironically as Christ begins to teach His disciples about the last days, he begins right after being in the temple, and predicts it’s destruction, hinting that Christ had been within the temple before contemplating. Acts 2 talks about the followers of Christ (in verse 46) “continuing daily with one accord in the temple”. A very blatent quote mentioning a temple in New Testament times, which those that attend a Mormon temple would see very strong evidence of is shown in Revelations 7:14 and 15 in John’s vision:

"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."

Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15:29 in mentioning the resurrection, says “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?” Mormons interpret this scripture as being a reference to Baptism for the Dead being done in the temples during Paul’s time, similar to the way they are done in Mormon temples today.

I am very interested in any information one might have from any early Saints or Apocryphal teachings about or from that temple. The only other actual “evidences” I have is that which the FreeMasons have passed down. We do know there was a temple used by His followers during that time however. I am very curious what the Catholic view on this temple is.

Again, the Mormon church believes they are the Church that was on the earth when Christ visited. We believe what Christ taught at that time was the Fullness of the Gospel - much of which has been lost over time, hence we believe the need for a Restoration from God.

 

[jstayii]

JStayii said…You’re asking me to point out flaws in people in the Catholic church? Are you saying you’re sinless? Have you never told a lie? My apologies if this offends anyone here, but I can think of even higher level issues of Child Sex Abuse in the Catholic Leadership. In even earlier times I can think of Popes killing Popes, what about the Inquisition and Crusades? There are plenty of examples there. I had a good Catholic friend growing up, in which I had a crush on that used to tell me Catholics couldn’t date Mormons…,
A suggestion…You were doing very well prior to this. You were respectful, informative and pleasant. Go back to that in spite of the goading my fellow Catholics are giving you.
I cannot say I can accept the truth as revealed in the Mormon faith. I will say that as far as moral, ethical, honest behavior the Mormons I have known have represented this as well or better than have my brothers and sisters of my faith.
God be with you.

Thank you slyboots. I apologize for getting a little out of hand there - I kind of felt bad after posting that and was not intending to point out any flaws in the Catholic faith. I was just discussing with my wife that there really is a lot other Christian faiths can learn from the Catholic religion. I think learning from each other will bring a lot more unity between faiths than any type of preaching or faith-bashing out there. I think there are things in each faith one can learn and grow, and grow closer to Christ from. I hope I can continue just sharing my beliefs, and learning from you all as well without pointing out each others’ perceived flaws. Catholics are very good people, with a deep relationship to Christ, which I admire.

 

[jstayii]

I just wanted to thank you for being respectful of the Catholic Faith. I cannot see the truth in your religion as I see in Catholicism, but I respect you for your ability to be cool under pressure.

However, I am a bit confused about the garments. Why wear them? Are you issued a few pairs or just one? Do you wash them like regular garnmets or is there a special procedure? I am sorry if these questions are disrespectful, and if I offend, forgive me, but I become curious.

Your questions are not disrespectful at all. I respect your curiosities, and don’t blame you for wanting to know. We make covenants to God and Jesus Christ in the temple to wear the garments. They are a symbol of living a pure, chaste, worshipful life to the Savior, and we wear them day and night to remind us of that, and those covenants we make with Him in the Temple. While we are taught to respect them (not just leave them on the floor, toss them over to the clothes hamper, etc.), we wash them like normal underwear, with the whites, warm cycle. We purchase them from special stores (usually near a temple) or online, both of which require proof of membership and Temple worthiness to obtain.