BTW, I need to admit I stand corrected on Mormons subscribing to the same teachings as Arius. Per that article, we do not, in fact our Doctrine even supports the Nicene creed, Roman Creed, Creed of the Apostles, Caesarean Creed, and Constantinopalitan Creed, assuming they were quoted correctly in that document. Our doctrine just does not support the Athanasean Creed, and some of the beliefs of “one being” as in the digit form however. So, Mormons do believe in the concept of the Trinity as it stands in those creeds, just not that Trinity of the Athanasean creed and as many Catholics believe today.
LDS would certainly not have any problems with the Apostles Creed. But the other creeds add unnecessary materials to it that strictly speaking would not sit well with pure biblical theology, hence also with LDS doctrine.
That is correct. LDS doctrine is not Arian by any means.
I believe that if you look at what abinadi says about God in the BoM (One God and his explanation for Jesus being called the son of God) and then add context by looking at the witnesses testimony in the beginning of the BoM (glory be the father, son, holy spirit, etc.) you can make a pretty strong case that Joseph and the early LDS started out Trinitarian. if you will read Lecture 5 of the Lectures on faith (used to be part of the D&C now the D&C intro still refers to it as “profitable” for teaching) you see a shift to a binitarian view (Two personages Father and Son, only son has a body and the holy spirit is their shared mind) it wasn’t until late JS/early BY that the LDS became henotheistic with a three Gods view of our world. The BoM shows people praying directly to
You believe what you want about my religion. I’ve told you what I believe, and have been taught to believe. I don’t need someone else to vouch for that.
jstayii, do you pray to Jesus?
Allweather, do you pray to God?
My point being, we pray to God, in the name of Jesus. I think we have very similar doctrine, and we agree with that of the Nicene crede which says,
I do. To God, to Jesus. When I go to adoration, I am in the presence of Jesus and I pray to him directly. Of course, I don’t need to be in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament to pray to Jesus. I call on him constantly, many times every hour, throughout each day.
What translation of the Nicene Creed is that? It is different from the one we know and say at Mass. For instance, yours says “the Son of God” while ours says “the only Son of God.” And yours says “begotten from the Father” while ours says “eternally begotten of the Father.” These seem like they could be significant differences, but I’m not an expert in these matters. I realize there are different ways to translate things from one language to another, so I’m just wondering what the source of your version is.
But they are separate beings in your view, correct? They are separate, distinct beings, rather than distinct personalities of the same being, God. Christ is the “God of our world” and is the messenger of prayers to Heavenly Father who is somewhere else, and there are other worlds with their own gods, just like Christ is the god of our world. Do I have that about right?
That’s very good. Again, Majick, you show that you really know your stuff.
There are many different versions and translations of the Nicene Creed. There is also the difference between the original Nicene Creed and the amended version of it by the Council of Constantinople, which is also called the Nicene Creed. This article in the Wikipedia does a good job of explaining the different versions:
That is correct.
No, you don’t get that right. First of all Christ is not just “the God of our world”. He is the God of all worlds; for all worlds were made by Him, and through him, and of Him, and for Him. Secondly, He is not the “messenger of prayers to Heavenly Father who is somewhere else”. That is Catholic doctrine, not Mormonism. In LDS theology, there is no such thing as someone being the “messenger of prayers” to someone else. When we pray to Heavenly Father, He is omnipotent and omniscient, and He hears our prayers. He doesn’t need a secretary else to “carry our prayers to Him”. That is the kind of thing that Catholics believe in, not LDS. And thirdly, there aren’t any other “worlds with their own gods”. As I told you before, Jesus is the creator of all worlds and the God of all worlds, and that is all that there is to it.
You got even that bit of it wrong. The Mormon Godhead is the easiest of all to “grasp”. It is the nonsensical absurdities of Trinitarianism that is difficult (in fact impossible) to “grasp”.
Kitty Chan, I think you’ve about got it all right. I think if one were to really read some of the early creeds, you would find the Mormon Doctrines on the Godhead agree with many of them, in fact. We simply do not believe the Godhead to be one in digit form, as somehow modern-day Christianity has come to interpret. We also believe that God and Christ both have a divine, perfected, resurrected body. We get this because we believe a modern day Prophet (Joseph Smith), called of God, actually saw God the Father and Jesus Christ in the flesh, in modern times - it is because of this that Mormons tend to have a few more little (or big, however you feel about the significance of them) details about the Godhead. Feel free to ask your friends any questions you might have as well - I don’t think they would get offended by your questions. They will probably welcome them and be happy to answer them and discuss them with you.jstayii
my hubby and I have made friends with a mormon couple and we will be going to a event together. My background I think I said is Baptist mainly. But given the “difference” of perspective on the Trinity vrs Three (hope you get what Im meaning) I take it you believe all that Christ did, said, died and is in Heaven? Just Hes not part of God? They are separate. Is this a “nutshell” if I can say that? I dont want to offend these people, as to date I didnt know there was this difference. Do Momorons speak about Christ in their lives and Him guiding you?
All Young men in the Mormon church are encouraged to serve a 2 year mission. They usually go when they are 19 years of age, serve for 2 years, and the location is determined by the Prophet or an Apostle of the Lord. While there, they spend all their time, talents, and efforts preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That would also be a good topic to ask them about. A Mormon mother is usually proud of their son serving a mission, and usually loves to talk about it.
We pray to the Father, in the name of the Son in our individual, personal prayers and public prayers. We baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
I don’t think that would be fair to say that that is Catholic doctrine. In fact, I didn’t mean to suggest that it is. If you believe that it is, then you’re mistaken. I’m trying to get a grasp of Mormon views of God. Apparently these are hard to pin down, because, as Majik has described earlier, the Mormon doctines have varied over time, and based on what others have written here, not all Mormons agree on this subject. You, Zerinus, seem to represent a very conservative point of view, while some others, like why me, are more liberal. I wonder if there aren’t variations in your respective understandings on the Mormon gods and their various functions.
Again, that wouldn’t be Catholic doctrine at all, at least not the way I have been made to understand it. I was groping around for the particular Mormon doctrines, and suggesting my own admittedly incomplete and erroneous conceptions of them. I reckon we would agree that God “is omnipotent and omniscient”
Very well. While I’ve got you on line on this subject, could you clear up the matter of Kolob for me? What is Kolob? Where is it? Who, if anyone, lives there? What does it have to do with Mormonism?
I won’t disagree with you on that! The Mormon ideas about God are utterly simple, in fact, childishly so, if your statements here are to be believed as representative of Mormon doctrines, which I’m not at all sure they are. Unfortunately for Mormons, they are largely wrong, but that is another subject for another thread.
Well, at least its cleared up basically in my head regarding the Trinity or the Three (is there a way you refer to them) And what you think of Jesus. Id rather have a explaination than speculation.
I just didnt want to start a religious war in a crowd lol to tell you the truth we will probably be having fun to worry about too much.Do you baptize babies like catholics?
Small world - I was a full-time missionary in Thailand too. I wonder if I knew her. I was there from 1996 to 1998. Yes, it’s a one time deal for 2 years. Once you’re older and kids have left the house, etc., you can choose to go again with your spouse though for another couple years - it’s not a lifetime thing though.