I believe there is one Church. Within the Church, there are disagreements. Christ the Head of the Church will sort this all out, but until he does I believe we must strive to interpret the Scriptures rightly and look to it as our primary authority, the one by which we judge everything else.
I would not say it “includes” as much as I would say that it results in repentance and acts of holiness.
Yes it is both faith and works - but we consider repentance and forgiveness to be much like Baptism, in that it is the work of God, not man. Christ’s forgiveness restores us to a right relationship to him wherein we find salvation. We do have to repent - but the desire to do so is a work of the Spirit.
Okay, so can we say then that true faith results in good works? If so, works are still necessary for salvation then (i.e. we are not saved by faith alone, since this faith subsumes in it works - it cannot be saving faith without works).
Sure, but then would you say that your faith is also the work of God, not man?
I agree, let me ask, do you think reconciliation requires not only Grace but indeed the effort through works to preserve the Faith which followed the Grace? Active Faith in other words?
But you are misunderstanding the place of faith. It is by grace through faith. Salvation comes through faith and as faith is lived out and manifested, works result. So, we can rightly say that it is not by or through works that we are saved. It is by grace alone through faith alone. Faith alone is the means by which grace is transferred to us. This grace that we gain through faith results in the activation of sanctification.
God creates faith in us through hearing His Word and through the Sacraments. I suppose you could say that our work, then, is making the effort to go to hear the Word, and receive the Eucharist. But those works themselves are not what saves us, I look to Jesus’ death and resurrection.
Certainly, it’s by God’s grace that we’re saved, and I’ll even accept that it’s transferred to us via faith. But the works need to be there too, or else the faith is not real faith. I mean, how else is faith live out but through what you do? It seems that faith and works (i.e. what you do) are intimately tied together. So while it’s true that grace is transferred through faith, one is not saved by faith alone, because the works are tied with the faith.
Of course the work is not what saves us. Likewise, the faith is not what saves us. It’s what Christ did, God’s grace in opening the divine family to us, and our faith and works in these that save us. That is, we need to have faith in Christ, and we need to work in Christ.
I’m glad we agree! I work side by side with my RCC brothers and sisters in their ministry to the poor here in Memphis, and I do so because I Love them as Jesus’ beloved children - both those that serve and the ones we serve. Our Lord commanded these works and I am joyfully obedient.God bless you for what you do, Still Dream!!!
So yeah, we work too
I think we need an operational definition of “saved.” We are saved when we have eternal life; we’ll know we have eternal life when we pass from this life. So, how can any of us among the living know with absolute certainty that he/she is or will be “saved”?
I’m still at the “fear and trembling” stage, myself.
Good book, that.
Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also historically known as the doctrine of justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine that distinguishes most Protestant denominations from Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity, and some in the Restoration Movement. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide
I must be living in a wonderful “delusion”…I know I am saved by the work of Christ by grace thru faith. "These things are written that you may know you have eternal life.’
I’d like to reiterate that I do not see any meaningful distinction between the “Protestant” view of faith and the Catholic position. I have been studying Catholicism for some time now and I do agree with much of Catholic doctrine, as I’ve stated in the past. So I wouldn’t hesitate to admit that I “adopted” the Catholic point of view if that were the case.
I seem to recall a thread where you supported abortion rights… but perhaps I’m mistaken.