Can I morally dispense birth control as a pharmacist if I know its intended purpose?

[Luigi_Daniele]

Ironically,** one of your best options might be a large pharmacy.** While the pharmacy might not be pro-life, it is more likely that there would be another pharmacist on duty at the same time. It is easier to exercise conscience rights in that environment.

Besides Catholic hospitals, you might want to look at the health centers of truly Catholic colleges.

Good luck. You are right, we need people like you in the field.

Not true, at least out here.

 

[Corki]

Not true, at least out here.

Yeah, there are a few states that have gone in that direction. No surprise that California is one of them. But in most states, pharmacists can still exercise conscience rights as long as the patient still has access.

 

[ab75]

And he did all this knowing the Church’s stand against artificial birth control. If there is one thing EVERYONE knows about the Catholic Church, it’s that it’s against the Pill! So he knew this going in… why did he choose a profession where he knew this would be an issue?!

I do worry we are heading to a place where Catholics will not be able to be doctors or pharmacists if they which to follow the law of both church and land.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Yeah, there are a few states that have gone in that direction. No surprise that California is one of them. But in most states, pharmacists can still exercise conscience rights as long as the patient still has access.

True, but my point was that out here, he would be better off with a small pharmacy.

 

[Wowbagger]

There will be those that will say that they can be used for legitimate purposes, sure…but how do as a pharmacist know? Physicians won’t tell you, that’s for sure. And it is a bit of a specious argument, TBH…90% of Rx’s for BC’s are for BC.

No offense, Luigi, but it sounds to me like you are screwing over 10% of your customers. There are people – good Catholics – who need hormone pills for legitimate medical reasons. If you are their only source for pharmaceuticals, they are (in a word) screwed.

As a Catholic, it is your moral duty to not knowingly cooperate in a material evil, or to remain ignorant of cooperation in evil through material negligence. It is emphatically not your duty to go out and discover whether you are materially cooperating in evil in every individual case. Otherwise no pharmacists could dispense Robitussen without first verifying whether the purchaser is going to use it to get high. Indeed, no Catholic could ever sell anything without first determining the planned use for it.

Personally, I would much much more uneasy with working in a liquor store, where it is much clearer which customers are going to use the goods for evil and which aren’t. In fact, I honestly don’t think I could work in a liquor store unless I had the right to refuse purchases to any customers I wasn’t comfortable selling to.

1ke, I appreciate the clarification. I see where you’re coming from now. However, from my read of the actual situation (as opposed to the thread title), it sounds like Pharm4Life is not actually in a position where he/she would know the reason for the prescription prior to filling it.

I’ll add that I absolutely agree with you about so-called “emergency contraception,” the abortion pill (RU486), and euthanasia/assisted suicide prescriptions. I am aware of no legitimate use for any of those drugs, so Pharm4Life could not legitimately fill those prescriptions as a Catholic. Hopefully we haven’t yet reached the point in this country where druggists are going to be forced to give customers mifepristone.

 

[Corki]

No offense, Luigi, but it sounds to me like you are screwing over 10% of your customers. There are people – good Catholics – who need hormone pills for legitimate medical reasons. If you are their only source for pharmaceuticals, they are (in a word) screwed.

How do you figure that? There’s not 10% of all women of childbearing age, let alone 10% of all customers, *need *birthcontrol pills for homonal reasons. Birthcontrol pills are not emergency prescriptions either like nitro might be. Unless he is the only pharmacy in town and there is no way to order the drugs from anywhere else, no one is harmed in anyway.

 

[ab75]

Condoms, sponges, and spermicides are not prescription items. A diaphram is, and the same moral issue is present for a diaphram as the Pill.

Can a Catholic work checkout at a grocery store or other store that sells condoms?

 

[faithfully]

Condoms, sponges, and spermicides are not prescription items. A diaphram is, and the same moral issue is present for a diaphram as the Pill.

I’m completely aware they are all under the same exact moral issue. I was asking how that is acquired. They have to “fit” as far as I know. So, you can’t just walk in and buy one. But, maybe a pharmacy isn’t even involved??? And if the diaphram is an RX… HOW COME, no one asks if they should sell those? As far as I know… they are ONLY used for blocking sperm. Right? Or is this just a really general question.

Now, Where I live, you might get your prescription filled and take up other items that you are purchasing. So let’s say, you are getting your heart meds., and you also take up a pkg. of condoms… Does the pharmacist say “Sorry, I don’t believe in those, you need to wait for another clerk. Or come in tomorrow, I’m the only one here right now.”

Basically, I just getting to the point that the BC pill is NOT the only issue he’s going to run into.

It seems to me that the issue that must also be considered, if you’re going to impose our religion on others that you must impose ALL of it with regard for your job. So, I guess then it’s appropriate to ask to see a wedding ring or marriage certificate if you’re filling any RX that is for sexual use. Like Viagra. It should only be sold to MARRIED men. Right? Because sex outside of marriage, just as bad as contraception. Because we ALL KNOW why anyone would buy viagra… and that is to have sex. NO WAY it could be used for any other medical purpose. So, it would be completely immoral to sell it to a single man.
Yet, I haven’t heard anyone worry about this.

 

[faithfully]

Short answer: no.

I stopped dispensing them almost 20 years ago. Best professional decision I’ve ever made.

There will be those that will say that they can be used for legitimate purposes, sure…but how do as a pharmacist know? Physicians won’t tell you, that’s for sure. And it is a bit of a specious argument, TBH…90% of Rx’s for BC’s are for BC.

Even if a physician puts a diagnosis on the Rx, you can not always believe it.

I choose not to take the chance, and just don’t dispense them. There is 1 Ob in my town (also a RC) who will not prescribe them, either–which is telling, IMO.

Is there only ONE OB in the whole town? Or one of many OB’s that won’t prescribe… Seriously, I’m for the OB that will go out of there way to figure out what the heck is going on with a woman’s body that might “require” BC. It is the lazy OB that won’t. I gotta tell you. I don’t know what I would have done without BC when NO OB could or would figure out why I was bleeding like I’d been shot.

AND, you don’t sell viagra to unmarried men? Or men that might be in relationships with women who take the pill or use other forms of BC? Or to men that go up to the front counter after picking up their Viagra, with a box of condems…?

 

[Ron_Conte]

The pharmacist who dispenses contraception is committing the sin of formal cooperation with an intrinsically evil and gravely immoral act, an act which deprives sexual relations of its procreative meaning. If he dispenses abortifacient contraception, then his sin is formal cooperation not only with contraception, but also with abortion.

Formal cooperation with any intrinsically evil and gravely immoral act is itself intrinsically evil and gravely immoral. It is objectively a mortal sin for a pharmacist to dispense contraception or abortifacient contraception.

For he assists the patient in attaining the evil moral object by providing the means. His act is not mere material cooperation because he provides the whole (or at least a substantial) means to that moral object; the contraceptive that he provides is the means to the end of contraception (or abortifacient contraception). Therefore, his act does not pertain merely to the circumstances, but to the moral object.

 

[Corki]

Short answer: no.

I stopped dispensing them almost 20 years ago. Best professional decision I’ve ever made.

There will be those that will say that they can be used for legitimate purposes, sure…but how do as a pharmacist know? Physicians won’t tell you, that’s for sure. And it is a bit of a specious argument, TBH…90% of Rx’s for BC’s are for BC.

Even if a physician puts a diagnosis on the Rx, you can not always believe it.

I choose not to take the chance, and just don’t dispense them. There is 1 Ob in my town (also a RC) who will not prescribe them, either–which is telling, IMO.

Luigi,

If you don’t mind my asking, how did you resolve this professionally? Do you own your own pharmacy now or work for a small privately owned one?

One of the biggest injustices I see these days is the movement to drive good Catholics out of the health professions. We saw it during the Health Care debate; lots of people willing to simply exclude Catholics from the fields of medicine and nursing if they didn’t want to be involved in abortions and sterilizations. I personally know three young adults who changed out of their pre-med studies because they feared being required to participate in abortions. They didn’t want to have spent thousands and thousands of dollars and not be able to practice. Off my soap box now.

 

[ab75]

Luigi,

If you don’t mind my asking, how did you resolve this professionally? Do you own your own pharmacy now or work for a small privately owned one?

One of the biggest injustices I see these days is the movement to drive good Catholics out of the health professions. We saw it during the Health Care debate; lots of people willing to simply exclude Catholics from the fields of medicine and nursing if they didn’t want to be involved in abortions and sterilizations. I personally know three young adults who changed out of their pre-med studies because they feared being required to participate in abortions. They didn’t want to have spent thousands and thousands of dollars and not be able to practice. Off my soap box now.

This is such a big fear of mine. We will be legislated out of the professions, and then won’t be able to provide good guidance. It’s unfortunate as is, that so many Catholic doctors in Catholic hospitals won’t give NFP the time of day. After my wife had a very difficult pregnancy ending with a fairly long hospital stay and c-section, she was advised to not get pregnant for at least a year and a half. When we asked about NFP, the Catholic doctor at the Catholic hospital dismissed it with it’s just not effective enough to risk your life. This has caused great strain, as even though she is Catholic and has 12 years Catholic schools (were there was both sexual and theft scandle by the priests/nuns), she really struggles with this issue as she has a tough time accepting all Church Authority in light of her experience. We discuss it often, and pray for guidance every night, but I know deep down, she knows her doctor believes it could be risking her life and is scared. When I insist on it, she deep down feels I’m willing to risk her life.

Anyway, I worry if we don’t allow the Catholics with conscious and knowledge on these items to play by the rules of the field, there will be no doctors to tell the truth or guide people in the right direction.

 

[BlackBeard54]

No offense, Luigi, but it sounds to me like you are screwing over 10% of your customers. There are people – good Catholics – who need hormone pills for legitimate medical reasons. If you are their only source for pharmaceuticals, they are (in a word) screwed.

With the understanding that there are always exceptions, I have to say “really?” The only source for pharmaceuticals? I’m sure Luigi would love to have no competition, but how many places does this really apply to now?

I live in a pretty small town (granted, being a native NYC boy, most places are small towns to me), and in the same distance (give or take a mile) that the closest pharmacy is to me I have the Choice of Krogers, Walgreens, Super-D, and a couple of Mom ‘n’ Pop pharmacies. A couple of miles further down the road is the base pharmacy. This doesn’t count the many “mail-order” options for drugs. I don’t believe there are many people who have just one choice for medication, so if they don’t like the fact that Luigi won’t fill their BC scrip they can go to someone who can.

Aside from the morning-after pill, there isn’t an emergency hormone prescription, and that instance is a DEFINITE sin of cooperation. So, not a problem.

 

[faithfully]

Luigi,

If you don’t mind my asking, how did you resolve this professionally? Do you own your own pharmacy now or work for a small privately owned one?

One of the biggest injustices I see these days is the movement to drive good Catholics out of the health professions. We saw it during the Health Care debate; lots of people willing to simply exclude Catholics from the fields of medicine and nursing if they didn’t want to be involved in abortions and sterilizations. I personally know three young adults who changed out of their pre-med studies because they feared being required to participate in abortions. They didn’t want to have spent thousands and thousands of dollars and not be able to practice. Off my soap box now.

I wonder how a person is forced to participate in such practices as abortion and sterilizations? Perhaps in the ER? and I could see an abortion happening there, with a dying woman on the table? I assume people decide to abort instead of deliver a baby under said circumstances. I can’t imagine an emergency sterilization. Seems Doctors can opt out of planned procedures. And I know lots of nurses, even in the field of OB/GYN that work through a service. Nurses are in such demand they can easily state the conditions they will work in, and still get lots of work. Also, I could be wrong, but it seems that only the field of OB/GYN and maybe a general surgeon would be called to perform this type of procedure. Can’t imagine that a cardiologist is asked to do it. Your friends must have had their hearts set on OB/GYN to just leave medicine all together.

This is such a big fear of mine. We will be legislated out of the professions, and then won’t be able to provide good guidance. It’s unfortunate as is, that so many Catholic doctors in Catholic hospitals won’t give NFP the time of day. After my wife had a very difficult pregnancy ending with a fairly long hospital stay and c-section, she was advised to not get pregnant for at least a year and a half. When we asked about NFP, the Catholic doctor at the Catholic hospital dismissed it with it’s just not effective enough to risk your life. This has caused great strain, as even though she is Catholic and has 12 years Catholic schools (were there was both sexual and theft scandle by the priests/nuns), she really struggles with this issue as she has a tough time accepting all Church Authority in light of her experience. We discuss it often, and pray for guidance every night, but I know deep down, she knows her doctor believes it could be risking her life and is scared. When I insist on it, she deep down feels I’m willing to risk her life.

Anyway, I worry if we don’t allow the Catholics with conscious and knowledge on these items to play by the rules of the field, there will be no doctors to tell the truth or guide people in the right direction.

When you insist on what?

 

[mommamaree]

A young unmarried couple decide that they are ready for sex. The young man goes to the pharmacist to purchase some condems. He’s nervous. He asks for some help, explaining that he and his girlfriend are about to have sex for the first time. The pharmasist gives him all the information he needs. Pats him on the back and sends him on his merry way.

Later that night, he goes to his girlfriends for dinner to meet her parents. The family says Grace, and he just stares at his dinner plate. He says nothing. Finally, the girl asks… Is something wrong? You know my family is religious, I didn’t think you’d be bothered by Grace. He says no… I just didn’t know your dad was the local pharmacist.

That was AWESOME! Totally didn’t expect that punchline!

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I own my own.

 

[ab75]

I wonder how a person is forced to participate in such practices as abortion and sterilizations? Perhaps in the ER? and I could see an abortion happening there, with a dying woman on the table? I assume people decide to abort instead of deliver a baby under said circumstances. I can’t imagine an emergency sterilization. Seems Doctors can opt out of planned procedures. And I know lots of nurses, even in the field of OB/GYN that work through a service. Nurses are in such demand they can easily state the conditions they will work in, and still get lots of work. Also, I could be wrong, but it seems that only the field of OB/GYN and maybe a general surgeon would be called to perform this type of procedure. Can’t imagine that a cardiologist is asked to do it. Your friends must have had their hearts set on OB/GYN to just leave medicine all together.

When you insist on what?

Not using birth control or abstaining from sex. She accepts my position, but I can tell she is just scared to death of having too many kids for her body since her doctor scared her. We are unfortunately in slightly different places spiritually at the moment, and in our accent to hierarchy of Church. In many ways, I recognize her actions are well beyond mine as a follower of Christ, however, basically I think she justifies believing condoms are ok to space children because she looks at much of problems in the Church in her upbringing, and historically. She has no doubts about God or Christ, none, however she re-accepted Catholicism, at least the sacramental side and that it’s the fullest form of the faith, in spite of her Catholic past and understanding of many Church problems. She recognizes that the problems will be there with any institution run by men. She is hurt that she spent 12 years of Catholic school and had nuns tell her crossing her legs could send her to hell, but they themself stole from the grade school. She’s hurt that she was told many things that would send her to hell, but the Priest had an affair with a male HS kid. She’s hurt that I learned more about the faith on my own when I decided to convert (before we met), than she learned in 12 years of school.

Basically, we were counceled before marriage by religous that conscience is above magisterium, and neither of us were convicted by the use of BC to space children (and we do want a larger family, perhaps through adoption if she isn’t able). I have began to be convicted about it, and she was somewhat on board until her “Catholic” doctor made it appear a very bad decision to use NFP instead of condoms. We are growing closer through the struggle, and love each other dearly as well as our son, but it is definitely trying, and I wish the doctor would have at least given NFP a fair discussion.

She knows she can’t ask me to do anything that I believe God wouldn’t accept, but since she doesn’t have the same conviction after much prayer, I know she deep down is hurt that we’re on a slightly different page.

Regardless, this isn’t about us, I just worry that if we don’t have doctors who understand and explain the benefits of NFP and problems with BC, things will get worse.

 

[faithfully]

Not using birth control or abstaining from sex. She accepts my position, but I can tell she is just scared to death of having too many kids for her body since her doctor scared her. We are unfortunately are in slightly different places spiritually at the moment, and in our accent to hierarchy of Church. In many ways, I recognize her actions are well beyond mine as a follower of Christ, however, basically I think she justifies believing condoms are ok to space children because she looks at much of problems in the Church in her upbringing, and historically. She has no doubts about God or Christ, none, but she has re-accepted Catholicism, at least the sacramental side and that it’s the fullest form of the faith, in spite of her Catholic past and understanding of many Church problems. She recognizes that the problems will be there with any institution run by men.

Basically, we were counceled before marriage by religous that conscience is above magisterium, and neither of us were convicted by the use of BC to space children (and we do want a larger family, perhaps through adoption if she isn’t able). I have began to be convicted about it, and she was somewhat on board until her “Catholic” doctor made it appear a very bad decision to use NFP instead of condoms. We are growing closer through the struggle, and love each other dearly as well as our son, but it is definitely trying, and I wish the doctor would have at least given NFP a fair discussion.

She knows she can’t ask me to do anything that I believe God wouldn’t accept, but since she doesn’t have the same conviction after much prayer, I know she deep down is hurt that we’re on a slightly different page.

Safe to assume that you’ve done TONS of research on NFP? Not taken just what this ONE doctor has said? Maybe he’s not skilled enough at teaching NFP to counsel properly??? And he knows it??? I certainly couldn’t talk you through it. Also, make sure there is strong comparison to the actually effectiveness of other methods. I was actually quite suprised that on the PLANNED PARENTHOOD website it explains condoms used correctly compared to NFP used correctly have the SAME rate of effectiveness… That blew me away. I didn’t know that. Did you? Does she?

Hope you find some comfort in your answers soon…

 

[ab75]

Safe to assume that you’ve done TONS of research on NFP? Not taken just what this ONE doctor has said? Maybe he’s not skilled enough at teaching NFP to counsel properly??? And he knows it??? I certainly couldn’t talk you through it. Also, make sure there is strong comparison to the actually effectiveness of other methods. I was actually quite suprised that on the PLANNED PARENTHOOD website it explains condoms used correctly compared to NFP used correctly have the SAME rate of effectiveness… That blew me away. I didn’t know that. Did you? Does she?

Hope you find some comfort in your answers soon…

I do know that and I have researched, now it’s just trying to get her comfortable with it. I’m trying to get her to go to a class (which is an hour away) to learn more, and I know she’ll eventually go, but I think she’s hoping her doctor (a female) will be able to just tell her. Right now, we want more kids, so hopefully this pregnancy will go much better.

Unfortunately, most of the “work” of NFP needs to be done by the woman, so I can’t help with it. We pray every night for guidance, and that’s all I can really do at this point.

 

[Corki]

I wonder how a person is forced to participate in such practices as abortion and sterilizations? Perhaps in the ER? and I could see an abortion happening there, with a dying woman on the table? I assume people decide to abort instead of deliver a baby under said circumstances. I can’t imagine an emergency sterilization. Seems Doctors can opt out of planned procedures. And I know lots of nurses, even in the field of OB/GYN that work through a service. Nurses are in such demand they can easily state the conditions they will work in, and still get lots of work. Also, I could be wrong, but it seems that only the field of OB/GYN and maybe a general surgeon would be called to perform this type of procedure. Can’t imagine that a cardiologist is asked to do it. Your friends must have had their hearts set on OB/GYN to just leave medicine all together.

When you insist on what?