Can Judas be forgiven?

[StevenFrancis]

Judas did not HAVE to betray Our Lord. He CHOSE to. Even in the closing hours Our Lord offered him one last chance to change course by offering him the sop first, before any of the other disciples. Judas was not some pre-programmed robot without free will. He had free will. If Judas had changed course I am certain that God in his divine wisdom and providence would have seen to it that the mission was still accomplished albeit in a slightly different way.

God deals with us all in the same way as he did Judas. When we stray from the narrow path God never fails to beckon us back. We are given countless chances thanks to God’s boundless mercy and patience and love. God plays his part, however we must respond. So it was with Jesus and Judas. We are told in the Gospels that Judas was especially beloved of Jesus. Why was this? Why was a thief, a liar, a sneak so loved by our Blessed Lord? It was precisely because he was all of those things that Our Lord was especially close to Judas. Was it Our Lord’s pity for the sinner? Was it Our Lord’s determination that Judas’ close proximity to the Lord would enable him to better combat his sins - he who needed so much more help than the others? Jesus knew Judas’ heart, mind and soul and did everything possible to save him.

By embezzling the monies intended for the mission, Judas was in effect frustrating the mission, whether he intended to or not? The point is that Judas placed his will before that of God. His greed meant less funds for the poor, the sick, the hungry. Did the lack of funds curtail the preaching of the Gospel. In other words, are there places and people it could have reached but didn’t due to the insufficiency of funds on a given day that prevented Jesus and the disciples travelling as they wished to? All because of a thief within the ranks.

Yet Judas persisted in his sin. Despite taking the sop from Our Lord’s hand he went out into the darkness to hand him over.

Judas felt fear and terror for himself after the act, hence his vain attempt to undo his actions. Again it was the fear of the self-absorbed of the consequences; what will become of me? It was self pity.

It was not genuine remorse or repentance.

I believe in God’s absolute mercy, love, forgiveness but also his Justice.

If Judas were saved how do you account for him being described by Jesus in the Gospels as the Son of Perdition, that devil, for whom it would have been better had he never been born?

The lesson applies to every one of us. Which one of us is Judas? He was one of the 12, indistinguishable on the outside from the others. What are we doing to prevent the spread of the Gospel? What are we doing to frustrate the building up of the Kingdom? What are we taking from the Lord that is rightfully his?

When push comes to shove would we be prepared to betray Our Lord with a kiss? None of us knows; all we can do is pray, stay close to the Lord and beg for God’s mercy that we would die rather than betray Our Blessed Lord.

You know, your illustration here has made me think of something. If already drawn as a parallel in this thread, I apologize. We have at the beginning of the Gospels, Mary’s fiat. Her all important “yes” to God. She didn’t HAVE to say yes. Even though God had created her full of grace, and without sin. Even though outside of time, it is supposed that she would say “yes”, she still had free will to say no. We don’t know what the alternative would have been in salvation history, and we don’t have to know, because Mary, BEING full of grace, had the grace to say “yes”.

So even if Judas was supposed outside of time, to have betrayed God, but as you point out, at any time could have chosen with free will not to do so. Satan had asked for Peter as well. Peter said “no”, and though he subsequently denied Jesus, he was forgiven. He knew he was forgiven. But Jesus also revealed to him on the beach the manner in which he would die. There was still justice, even with God’s infinite mercy. Jesus had long before told Peter he was the rock and foundation of His Church. Judas was referred to as possessing a demon, and even BEING a demon. Christ knew that Judas was possessed by evil early on in the ministry. And as you say, though he knew via the father that Judas would do what Judas would do, he still didn’t HAVE to do it as a certainty. We don’t know the alternate outcome in salvation history if he had not. We can only speculate. Mary and Judas are both seeming tools of pre-destination, but still had to offer their consent of the will. Both of them knowing that the end result would be suffering because of the cross. Judas, just didn’t orient his will to God enough to make it to Easter. His vision was so clouded, that he didn’t believe that Easter COULD, let alone would come. We can only speculate that if Judas would have taken one of his outs. Was killing himself the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that one can not repent of, either in this world or the world to come? If is a frightening question in a way. I had a family member, (not exactly in friendship with God), who took their own life, and I don’t like to be believe that this act was a choice for hell. He was most certainly mentally ill, and perhaps even filled with a demon. The Church says we should not despair for those we love who have died under such circumstances, and that we still offer prayers for them, (and I do). But this is one of the most penetrating and haunting questions we struggle with on this side of the dark glass that we can’t see through until we are with our Lord. I don’t despair, even for Judas, and believe that God’s mercy may still include even him, if Judas himself could accepted mercy in some nanosecond between where our time ends, and timelessness is.

Mysteries can sure be mysterious.

 

[brutus1989]

Judas iscariot was probably the only disciple who “got it”. How many times did jesus have to explain over and over what he was talking about to the ones he hand picked? The frustration must have led him to pick out the smartest of the group and go with them. C’mon, you got a team, you’re trying to win, but some players are better than others. What do you do? Jesus told his disciples over and over that he had to die, and they still didn’t get it. He had to beg the best the best guy on his team to be the fall guy. You know how hard that must have been for judas? Do you really think judas wanted to get rich off jesus? It doesn’t make sense. He did as his lord and teacher asked him to do. And if he really did hang himself, it was out of the surrealism of your best friend asking you basically to have you killed. Thats all for now welcome to any responses

 

[mikekle]

My view is that Judas is in Hell. My evidence for this is:

Our Lord refers to him as the son of perdition and said of Judas that it would be better for him (Judas) had he never been born.

Satan entered into Judas. Satan cannot enter into one who is truly close to the Lord, either in person as Judas was or to the Holy Spirit as we can be. This is a choice we make freely. Satan would only have been able to enter into Judas had he been in a state of serious or as the Church terms it, mortal sin. It is likely that Judas was deep in sin and this was the opening for Satan to enter him. Judas welcomed Satan in with open arms, which by the way is what we do whenever we persist in serious sin and turn away from Christ. Satan requires our co-operation and assent. He cannot force us. Satan remember is a legalist and is subject to authority; he cannot just do what he wishes as he has to play by the rules of the game so to speak. Judas therefore freely chose to betray Jesus in the most grave manner.

Judas was in charge of the finances of Jesus and the Apostles. Yet he was a thief who regularly embezzled these monies for his own use. So in effect he was already by his actions - stealing money that was intended to be used to further the Kingdom of God - seeking to frustrate, undermine and block Our Blessed Lord’s work/mission.

Judas committed suicide. Had he wanted Our Lord’s forgiveness he could even then have sought it but he did not. This is again another rejection by Judas of Christ’s/God’s mercy. We can serve either Christ or Satan. Our Lord warned us that a man cannot serve two masters at once. We must make a choice.

We can never know for sure where Judas is now and for eternity but I would imagine he is in Hell for he chose Satan. It is a tragedy whenever anyone goes to Hell so I say this with no satisfaction.

Yes, but Jesus would have known when he created judas, what he was going to do, and what the outcome was going to be, so it may have been better had Judas not been born, but God/Jesus knew all this was going to happen when Judas was a baby, so this was his destiny, there is nothing Judas could have done about it.

 

[chevalier]

Yes, but Jesus would have known when he created judas, what he was going to do, and what the outcome was going to be, so it may have been better had Judas not been born, but God/Jesus knew all this was going to happen when Judas was a baby, so this was his destiny, there is nothing Judas could have done about it.

Nope. The fact that God knows what man will choose (before that man is born) doesn’t unmake the man’s choice. God’s knowledge does not bind the man’s will. Prescience can exist without predetermination.

 

[Ion]

I think it would be wrong to judge Judas without thinking of grace; when he betrayed Jesus (and what he did was “legal” so to speak), he completely lost the grace, and without this grace he committed suicide; Suicide is a sign of damnation.

 

[odonnell1218]

Unless Judas was repentent before he died, he will not be forgiven after he died. Scripture says “Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9: 27). And again here "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil. ( 2 Corinthians 5: 10). When we die, we are judged according to what we have done while living on earth.

Ok, I wanna see if I can respond to this real quick. Now I’m of the opinion that Judas is not in Hell but rather that he is in Purgatory.

I wanna begin with the second paragraph first. Now you are very much right that in order to die in God’s grace, one must be repentant and the passages you sited are good at making that point. However, I think that if one were to cite this passage from 1 Corinthians that you mentioned in order to make an argument for Judas being in Hell, then I would respond that, yes we are judged by what we have done in our lives, but it can’t be narrowed down to a single event that makes or breaks us. Rather, it is the deeds performed throughout our lives that stand as a reflection of our hearts that we will be judged on, in other words, our works of faith. Furthermore, if this passage were to be taken to the extreme, it would seem to imply that there is no power or point in repentance. As sinful human beings, we are likely to sin far more often than we perform good works. These sins are forgiven us through the act of repentance, which of course consists of a contriteness of heart, an honest confession and an act of penance. But of we are judged only by our deeds, then repentance would have no effect, since it doesn’t erase what I did. But the phrase, “what we did in the body,” shouldn’t be taken to mean deeds. It should be taken to mean what we did in our earthly process of sanctification, which would included repentance.

 

[odonnell1218]

Jesus would have forgiven Judas if Judas had asked for it. Apparently, Judas did not ask for forgiveness. He went and hung himself instead. Although we cannot be certain where Judas is presently, that is: hell, purgatory, or heaven; his salvation doesn’t look good as Christ said " The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born.” ( Matthew 26: 24). If Judas is in hell, it is because he has a bad heart, he doesn’t love Jesus.

Now, this leads to your next point about Judas asking for forgiveness. What you seem to be saying is that in order to be forgiven, Judas would have needed to ask Jesus for forgiveness personally. However, the problem I see with this is that nowhere does it say in the Bible that God will not forgive a sinner if he does not ask for it verbally, nor that God will despise a person for their sins. I cite Psalm 51:17: “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite heart - these, O God, You will not despise.” Another example is in the Gospel of Luke, when the sinful woman comes to Jesus and kisses his feet, washes them with her tears and dries them with her hair. In response, Jesus says, “Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much.” Nowhere in this passage does the sinful woman verbally ask Jesus for forgiveness, and yet it was given to her nonetheless because of the contriteness of her heart and her desire to be forgiven. Now, of course this leads to the question of Judas. Was he contrite and did he desire forgiveness? Well, Matthew 27:3-4 seems to say that he was: “Then Judas, His betrayer, seeing that He had been condemned, was remorseful and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, saying, ‘I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.’” Here the Gospels tell us plainly that Judas felt remorse for what he had done, pointing to a contrite heart, one the God would not despise. But I could take this even further. 1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Matthew 27:3-4 tell us that Judas confessed, thus it is reasonable to assume that God would forgive him.

 

[odonnell1218]

Jesus would have forgiven Judas if Judas had asked for it. Apparently, Judas did not ask for forgiveness. He went and hung himself instead. Although we cannot be certain where Judas is presently, that is: hell, purgatory, or heaven; his salvation doesn’t look good as Christ said " The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born.” ( Matthew 26: 24). If Judas is in hell, it is because he has a bad heart, he doesn’t love Jesus.

Now in your next point, you cite Matthew 26:24. It is my intention to write my doctoral dissertation on the nature of purgatory, and this particular passage will be included, as I will be focusing a section of the dissertation on Judas. It is my firm belief that, like Heaven and Hell, Purgatory is not a place we are sent, but a place we choose to go because of our reticence to move on to face God and the amount of time we spend in Purgatory is also our choice. Judas, in my opinion, would be a prime example of someone who would not easily allow himself to move out of Purgatory and into Heaven. Judas does meet the criteria for God to forgive him, but it is then up to Judas, as with all of us, to accept God’s forgiveness, or even except the fact that God has forgiven us. Judas has just fallen into one of the worst positions a human could fall into by handing over the Messiah to be executed. Having been filled with remorse and the full gravity of what he has done come into focus, it is no stretch to infer that Judas was filled with immense grief, hence why he killed himself. But in this act, he does not reject God, as he does not commit the sin of final impenitence. As such, he does not accept Hell. However, Purgatory is by no means a paradise. I will go into greater detail in my dissertation, but it is my belief that in Purgatory, there is still immense suffering, mainly emotional/spiritual suffering. If Judas is in Purgatory, he would be undergoing possibly the worst and most painful degree of suffering a soul who is not in Hell could endure. He has just betrayed his friend, handed over the Messiah to be killed and the rest of the disciples have deemed him a traitor. Furthermore, in today’s world, Judas’s name is now synonymous with the highest form of betrayal. Given such a reputation to go with his suffering, Jesus was very much right that it would have been better had Judas never been born.

 

[odonnell1218]

Even if Judas hadn’t betrayed Jesus, Jesus very well may have still been arrested by the Jewish authorities at some time or another as they were looking for an opportunity to arrest and kill him. The fact of the matter is though, Judas betrayed Jesus and led the authorities to him the night before he was crucified.

Finally, you made the claim that if Judas had not betrayed Jesus, surely the Sanhedrin would have arrested Him some other way. Well, this may have been the case, we may never know. However, if that were the case, I would ask you that if there were another way for Jesus to enter His passion, and if Judas’s betrayal would have landed him in Hell, and if Jesus truly loved Judas like he did all other sinners and all His other disciples, why didn’t Jesus stop him? Instead, in the Gospel of John, Jesus says to Judas, “What you do, do quickly.” If there were a way for Jesus to enter His passion without sacrificing the soul of one of His disciples, I believe he would have done so. Now, I have heard some people argue that it was better for one soul, Judas’s soul, to have been lost if it meant the salvation of all others. However, in the parable of the lost sheep in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus says, “What man among you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.” From what Jesus says in this parable about His love for all people, even the sinners, this idea of “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” when applied to Judas does not hold, because Jesus says He would leave the ninety-nine to go look for the one, because, even when compared to the ninety-nine, the one is indispensable.

I hope what I had to say makes sense. If you have any questions, please feel free to let me know and I’d be more than happy to discuss this matter further. God be with you, my friend.

 

[odonnell1218]

Wisedom, I’m sorry, but you are still selectively interpreting Scripture. You are taking Judas’s regret as automatic repentance, and discounting the fact that Christ called him a devil, said it would be better had he not been born, and also Judas despaired and killed himself. Surely Christ’s mercy is endless, but the fact is that you cannot pronounce that he was saved. You just can’t. You’re doing the same thing as others who claim he was damned. We simply do not know, and we won’t know until the last day.

This is such a fruitless discussion. Why can’t we just be silent on the matter? It is not our job or place to speculate on God’s judgement. It is way out of line. Let’s just pray for the salvation of all, offer up prayers for those in Purgatory, and not worry about God’s judgement. It is not our place, and it will gain us nothing.

PeaceInChrist, I would be one to agree with you that Judas’s fate will not be fully known until the last day, but I would hardly call this a fruitless discussion, as it’s implications would tell us something about the nature of God. Now, in your response you mentioned that Christ calls Judas a devil, or as the Bible says, son of perdition. My question to you in response is, where does that put Peter? In Matthew 16:23, after Peter rebukes Christ for predicting His crucifixion, Christ says to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but of the things of men.” Jesus’ words to Peter are far more severe, by calling Peter not just a son of perdition, but the actual name Satan. I will join you happily in our faithful prayers for the souls in Purgatory and I will hold you in my prayers as well. God be with you always my friend.