Can love exist in Hell?

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Maybe my theology is off base here, but here is something I was thinking about based on what I heard from a friend:

Is it possible for love to exist in hell?

If we assume that all true love comes from God, and that Hell is a place devoid of God’s presence (as I’ve heard it defined) it would seem that Hell is a place devoid of love.

If this were true, it seems it wouldn’t be possible for anyone who truly loved someone else to go to hell, even if they met none of the criteria for salvation.

Again, assuming the premises are accurate, let’s assume (for a clear cut example) John Wayne Gacy felt true, selfless, Agape style love for his mother.

The way I see it, the only way his soul would “fit into” hell as defined would be if there was some sort of “bizzaro purgatory” that would force him to stop loving his mother, which obviously seems silly.

But otherwise I see it as necessary that some form of love exists in hell, and therefore there is some form of God’s presence in hell,which doesn’t seem right to me.

Again just a random thought I had as a layperson. Would love someone to poke holes in it.
 
nfinke said:
Hell is a place devoid of God’s presence (as I’ve heard it defined) it would seem that Hell is a place devoid of love.
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God is everywhere.

Those in hell suffer not because of absence of God.

One person described it as thinking of heaven and hell as the same place, however, the person’s reaction to God’s presence was either pure love or a searing fire of pain.
 
Well the bigger issue is does this mean that it’s impossible for anyone who truly loved someone else to exist in hell, even if they,for example, will fully denied Christ?
 
I’m not sure I totally jive with that last description, but yes that passage did slip my mind. Interesting.
 
You will not love people whom you loved before but you will despise them especially if they are in heaven and you are not.

You may not even care about those on Earth as Hell is so awful.
 
TheLittleLady said:
One person described it as thinking of heaven and hell as the same place, however, the person’s reaction to God’s presence was either pure love or a searing fire of pain.
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I’ve heard this, and it seems to have some resemblance to the Orthodox concept of heaven and hell.

I think of it this way — and just stay with me before you dismiss it as a ridiculous idea. Think of the clear rotating cake holders that you will sometimes see at diners and restaurants. There are two clear glass domes, one over top of the other. Each has an opening in one side. When you spin the top of the cake holder, you can line up the two openings and retrieve a slice of cake. When you turn the top a little more, the openings are no longer synced up and you can see the cake, but can’t get to it.

Now think of God and His love as a hot incandescent light in the holder, the most beautiful light you’ve ever seen. Those who are saved are in front of both openings when they are synced up, and they can see the light, feel its warmth, and approach it. Those who are damned are on the side that doesn’t sync up. They, too, can see the light, feel its warmth, but they can’t get to it, indeed, they have to see the joy of all those who can approach it. It’s the same light and same warmth, but forever closed to them, and they spend eternity cursing God, cursing the saved, and cursing themselves for having died estranged from God and unworthy of being able to approach Him.

There’s theology to be learned at Waffle House if only you set your mind to it 😇:fried_egg:🥓🍰
 
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nfinke said:
Again, assuming the premises are accurate, let’s assume (for a clear cut example) John Wayne Gacy felt true, selfless, Agape style love for his mother.
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He would cease being capable of such love once he has determined to go to hell.
Without the gift of love given by God, the only thing left will be hatred and despair.
 
Think: Can air exist in a vacuum? Can you breathe in outer space? Hell is not a positive, it is a negative, a lack. Everything positive is reversed. It is anti-faith, anti-hope, anti-love, anti-virtue, antichrist. The evil one, in his rebellion, emptied himself of all that is good. Therefore his domain is one of crushing, oppressive despair.

In a play on words, the only love in hell expresses the feelings of those who would “love” to get out of there.
 
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I realize it was an Anglican who said this, but I think the nature of Hell is better summed up by the expression: “The Gates of Hell are locked from the inside.” The Catechism has the similar: “To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”” (CCC #1033. I did truncate it, but I don’t think the parts I left out change the element I am highlighting)

Hell is self-imposed seclusion from communion with God. No one is there by the happenstance of dying estranged (although they might lie to themselves about that) but by the grave choice to consciously reject Him and to not turn back. They reject Him, or demand something different from Him, but they do not want Him. It would not surprise me if God would joyously throw open the gates of Heaven for every man in Hell, but none of them are capable of accepting that gift anymore.
 
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nfinke said:
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Is it possible for love to exist in hell?
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There is no being without some good, so even those in hell have some good.

Catechism
1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. … To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. …

1035 …. The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God …

1472 [Purgatory and Hell] … These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. …
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nfinke said:
Well the bigger issue is does this mean that it’s impossible for anyone who truly loved someone else to exist in hell, even if they,for example, will fully denied Christ?
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They lose the virtue because they go to hell, so no that is not a requirement.
 
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They choose hell, and are left with hatred.
They look around hell and everything reminds them of this judgement and they hate it all the more.
They look upon themselves and hate the choice they made, so they look anywhere else, and hate the reminders.

They are stuck in an infinite feedback loop of hate begetting more hate.
 
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God is Love. Love is not on hell.
nfinke said:
John Wayne Gacy felt true, selfless, Agape style love for his mother.
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Greatest commandment.
Matthew 22
36“Teacher,* which commandment in the law is the greatest?”
37 j He said to him,* “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39k The second is like it:* You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
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Matthew 12
47[Someone told him, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, asking to speak with you.”]*
48But he said in reply to the one who told him, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?”
49And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
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nfinke said:
Is it possible for love to exist in hell?
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I recently read Dante Inferno and believe one of first levels of hell (Lust) was a couple who were together in hell. They told Dante about how they succumbed to lust and one weeped as the other discussed how they slipped up and succumbed to temptation. It was gut wrenching. You could tell they really loved each other even though they were in hell together.
 
Dante is theological poetry, not fiction. There is some overlap but they’re not the same genre.
 
Nobody in hell will ever have or experience charity towards anybody else in hell ever again. They also hate everybody in Heaven.

In their unclean state, they do continue to receive charity from God by being permitted to dwell in hell (since his direct Presence would be far worse than the torments in hell).
 
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Quite right! God is love. If God is not present in hell, love is not present.

My simple mind likes to keep things simple.
 
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