Can Mary be Sinless and Intercede for you?

[adstrinity]

Below is what St. James believd about Mary. If you limit youself to Bible only, then you don’t have these resources for your faith. I don’t know if you are a bible only type guy, but if so, know that, bible only is a practice not found in the bible! But love Tradition, love the Saints. After all it was the Catholic Church that told you which books in God’s Word are inspired

The Protoevangelium of James

“And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there” (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).

“And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’” (ibid., 8–9).

“And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’” (ibid., 15).

“And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” (ibid.).

You know, all the times I have read this, “Children,” never occured to me. I thought he meant his children were older, but, I guess he would not have used, ‘children,’ if that was the case. Are we to take into account that St. Joseph had children around Mary’s age and younger? Do we have anything on that?

Well, I don’t believe Paul was saying they must marry, I believe he was saying only one wife. Paul also said that not to marry is better so he who is unmarried may care how to please the Lord. Paul also said he wished all men were as he is, unmarried. Chasity isn’t a burden, but those who are given the grace welcome it. They have a closeness with the Lord that married people don’t have. If you took a poll, I doubt the priests would wish for marriage.

Fr. Larry Richard’s (Relevant Radio) mentioned something about this. He said that celebacy is a martyrdom; it’s not what God commanded, BUT, people do it to die to themselves and be ressurected in Christ, as opposed to a married couple who die to self to be ressurected as one to each other. I have never though of celebacy as a martyrdom, but, it does make sense as one is denying onesself and leaving one’s body and giving it to Christ.

 

[jmcrae]

The point is, not everyone who comes out of a place or person for that matter was resident or made in that location. Sometimes the place/person is used as a ‘terminal transfer’’ especially when the person already is what He is before and after the exit.

You mean like how all human beings (not just Jesus) are created by God and then placed into their mother’s wombs?

She should perhaps be called a bearer.

But that’s what the word “mother” means. Bearer. Your mother did not “create” you - God created you. Your mother bore you in her womb, when God put you in there.

God created you in the fallopian tube, when your father’s sperm met your mother’s egg. At the moment that God put you in there, the sperm and egg joined together and became a person - you! God then caused you to move into your mother’s womb. And then your mother bore you (carried you) in her womb, the same way that Mary bore Jesus in her womb.

Mary is Theotokos, the God-bearer. Mother of God.

 

[sola_scriptura]

You know, all the times I have read this, “Children,” never occured to me. I thought he meant his children were older, but, I guess he would not have used, ‘children,’ if that was the case. Are we to take into account that St. Joseph had children around Mary’s age and younger? Do we have anything on that?

Fr. Larry Richard’s (Relevant Radio) mentioned something about this. He said that celebacy is a martyrdom; it’s not what God commanded, BUT, people do it to die to themselves and be ressurected in Christ, as opposed to a married couple who die to self to be ressurected as one to each other. I have never though of celebacy as a martyrdom, but, it does make sense as one is denying onesself and leaving one’s body and giving it to Christ.

Well – with respect to the good Friar, he couldn’t be more wrong. We don’t have to do anything to “die ourselves” … without faith we’re already dead in our sins.

 

[adstrinity]

Well – with respect to the good Friar, he couldn’t be more wrong. We don’t have to do anything to “die ourselves” … without faith we’re already dead in our sins.

*Father. Not, “Friar.”

We die to ourselves to be alive in Christ.

 

[Gamera]

Well – with respect to the good Friar, he couldn’t be more wrong. We don’t have to do anything to “die ourselves” … without faith we’re already dead in our sins.

“I protest, brethren, by my pride in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!” 1 Cor 15:31.

“He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life,” John 12:25.

 

[po18guy]

Let’s put it this way. If the president decides to learn plumbing from a toilet washer woman, that woman becomes his teacher or should you wish to elevate her further, the Lecturer of the President. Some who wishes to elevate her even further may call her Queen of the Presidency.

Now, what is her rightful ‘title’?

Such a thoughtful and kind allegory you use. We know you have insufficient faith to believe as Catholics do, but I will not sit in the judgment chair and explain to Christ why I denigrated the memory of the woman who was “chosen” by God to bear His Son.

“All generations will call be blessed, except for fundamentalists”???

 

[po18guy]

*Father. Not, “Friar.”

We die to ourselves to be alive in Christ.

He can slander Mary, but he fears calling any man “father” cuz his very own “buybull” told him so.

 

[Peter_J]

Well I think the important thing about this is you’re staying open-minded and charitable.

I second that. Uncharitable posters can be really annoying.

 

[po18guy]

You mean like how all human beings (not just Jesus) are created by God and then placed into their mother’s wombs?

But that’s what the word “mother” means. Bearer. Your mother did not “create” you - God created you. Your mother bore you in her womb, when God put you in there.

God created you in the fallopian tube, when your father’s sperm met your mother’s egg. At the moment that God put you in there, the sperm and egg joined together and became a person - you! God then caused you to move into your mother’s womb. And then your mother bore you (carried you) in her womb, the same way that Mary bore Jesus in her womb.

Mary is Theotokos, the God-bearer. Mother of God.

Based upon this fact, he’d better not celebrate “mother’s” day any more. Since his own mother was also just a vessel, he should celebrate “bearer’s day”. Has a nice ring to it, huh?

 

[Peter_J]

Just to be clear, Mary the Mother of God is 100%, Immaculately Conceieved, free from all sin, perfect. Mary IS perfect and She has been Her entire life.

adstrinity,

People aren’t as easy to convince as you seem to think. You need to work a little harder:

Just to be clear, MARY THE MOTHER OF GOD IS 100% IMMACULATELY CONCEIVED, FREE FROM ALL SIN, PERFECT. MARY IS PERFECT AND SHE HAS BEEN HER ENTIRE LIFE.

 

[po18guy]

Now, Back to Post Can Mary Be sinnless and Intercede for you?

Answer YES. No Only Can has.

I have went to the Blessed Mother ALL of my life. Where is my proof? Let me put it this way, I have never asked the Blessed Mother for help and been rejected EVER. Where in the bible does it say we must, it does not, where in the bible say we cannot, it does not. So here is MO on this.

When I am troubled and stress and anxiety has taken over my life I go into my Room. I pray and ask her to go with me to God and pray for me also to help me get through this. I could do what most of the world does today I could go to the Dr and get pills. I could also pay thousands to Therapy, and maybe someday I may need that. But I don/t think so.

The Blessed Mother is my pill. my therapy, and unlike the pills and Dr’s She works. She has never failed anyone who has asked for her assistance.

So my point, Must you ask for her help, No. But WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU NOT WANT TO. All you have to do is believe and trust in her love for you. But here is the best part, I have never came out after Praying and asking for her help and not felt 100% relief that help was on the way. I wish someone could take my blood pressure before and after. I bet you would see alot of drug companies, and Dr’s not as busy that’s for sure.

Amen, rinnie!

 

[adstrinity]

adstrinity,

People aren’t as easy to convince as you seem to think. You need to work a little harder:

Just to be clear, MARY THE MOTHER OF GOD IS 100% IMMACULATELY CONCEIVED, FREE FROM ALL SIN, PERFECT. MARY IS PERFECT AND SHE HAS BEEN HER ENTIRE LIFE.

I wasn’t trying to convince anybody on my position, but, clarify something that was said about how, ‘Catholics will say Mary is perfect…but not quite perfect, but they wont be able to tell you how.’ Something like that was said. I wanted to make sure all reading understood that there is no doubt, no question, no objection to Mary being altogether 100% Perfect, no exceptions. She IS perfect. Not in the slightest NOT perfect.

 

[Peter_J]

I wasn’t trying to convince anybody on my position, but, clarify something that was said about how, ‘Catholics will say Mary is perfect…but not quite perfect, but they wont be able to tell you how.’ Something like that was said. I wanted to make sure all reading understood that there is no doubt, no question, no objection to Mary being altogether 100% Perfect, no exceptions. She IS perfect. Not in the slightest NOT perfect.

OIC. In that case, your non-cap non-bold post was just fine.

 

[happilycatholic]

If I have to argue with everybody who comes up with a book beyond the Bible, I’d have no time for my breakfast. Same with the muslims, if the quran can be accepted, might as well be a muslim!

Since the Bible is God’s word, I rely ONLY on it. The opinions of others, they can keep to themselves.

Correction, I don’t interpret, I take God’s word as it is.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to ALL men, because ALL sinned—

*** The reason why Adam & Eve sinned and had to die for it is precisely because Satan tweaked the words of God in their ears. ‘Thou shalt surely die’ becomes ‘thou shalt not surely die’

.

Then you better tweak the Bible right back to the way it was before reformation and start from there on your theory of sola scriptura.

 

[Scientiphic]

Then you better tweak the Bible right back to the way it was before reformation and start from there on your theory of sola scriptura.

happily, there’s always 2 sides to a coin. You may think the catholics canonised the bible…but to many christians, it was the catholics who attempted to violate the Scripture (unsuccessfully)and the others wrestled the Bible from them…or rather God prevented them from causing harm.

Arab muslims also say they own palestine, but is that true? That’s why I always go back to the root. They claim this and that and I show them the very Torah which they also claim they use that tells them that God gave Israel to the Jews. And they get jammed.

Same for you. Since you claim to be of Christ there’s NO EXCUSE why you are not followig what is written. And what IS written is that Mary was a sinner just like everyone else and she prayed feverishly with the others.

You can choose to be a scriptural apostate, just don’t call yourself a christian, cos its no different from a criminal breaking the law and telling everyone that he is a good citizen of the country.

.

 

[Peter_J]

Mary was the chosen vessel of God to give birth to Christ. The Holy Spirit both fertilized the egg that became Christ and implanted the divinity of Christ in her womb (if we must be explicit). However, Jesus also preexisted before Mary was even born. Hopefully you see what I’m driving at.

If you read the Council of Ephesus’ wording when they coined Mary the Mother of God it acknowledges all these things – although I personally think it was perhaps a poor choice of words. I think mother of our Lord in the flesh would have served us better, but again the councils elaboration on this is fine with me (I just think the title is a little misleading unless one takes the time to read the councils very explicit language used to define this doctrine).

Just to be clear I’m not divining up the divinity and humanity of Jesus (a favorite Catholic red herring for all who oppose its Mariology).

Just one little technicality I’d like to point out: Theotokos (the term that the Council of Ephesus applied to Mary) does not literally translate to “Mother of God”, but rather “God-bearer” or “Birthgiver of God”.

In English we usually use “Mother of God” because “Birthgiver” isn’t really a natural English word, (unlike in e.g. Romanian where you have “Nascatorare”).

 

[Gamera]

Same for you. Since you claim to be of Christ there’s NO EXCUSE why you are not followig what is written.

We do follow what is written. Luke 1:28 calls Mary “full of grace” and so do we. Why don’t you?

And what IS written is that Mary was a sinner just like everyone else

NO, that isn’t written anywhere in Scripture.“I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book …” Rev 22:18.

and she prayed feverishly with the others.
.

Praying feverishly proves one is a sinner? Didn’t Jesus pray feverishly in the garden?

 

[Scientiphic]

We do follow what is written. Why don’t you?

NO, that isn’t written anywhere in Scripture.

Praying feverishly proves one is a sinner? Didn’t Jesus pray feverishly in the garden?

Not written??? You must be blind.

Romans 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Mark 10:18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

Is Mary god? Of course not. So how can she be good or sinless.

Praying feverishly is NOT the point…again you seem unable to see. I said she prayed WITH the others, not FOR the others. When I eat my lunch with you, I’m eating MY lunch…not eating your lunch for you. I hope this is simple enough for you.

 

[Gamera]

Not written??? You must be blind.

Nice. No, I am not blind. You said it is written “Mary is a sinner like everyone else.” No verse says that. I am not “blind” for refusing to let you add to God’s word. “I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book …” Rev 22:18.

Romans 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Four times in this thread I’ve shown you that those words refer to the unrightous who oppress God’s people, whom Ps 14:5 calls “righteous.”

[Mark 10:18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

Right. Only God makes a person holy. That’s exactly what Catholics believe, that God made Mary holy.

Is Mary god? Of course not.

So how can she be good or sinless.

By Christ’s shed blood. We don’t believe Mary made herself holy, or became holy by her own doing. We believe Jesus made her holy.

Praying feverishly is NOT the point

Yet you brought it up.

…again you seem unable to see. I said she prayed WITH the others, not FOR the others. When I eat my lunch with you, I’m eating MY lunch…not eating your lunch for you. I hope this is simple enough for you.

Oh, that’s charming. I admit I’m not that bright — I’m a simple attorney who holds only one doctorate — but I submit that even I’m sharp enough to see that you duck Scripture to cling to manmade tradition. For instance, I’ve shown you repeatedly that “there is none that does good, no, not one,” comes from Psalm 14:3 which contrasts sinners against God’s people who are “righteous.” Yet every few posts, you return to quoting “there is none that does good” as if you never even read my post.
[/quote]

 

[sola_scriptura]

Just one little technicality I’d like to point out: Theotokos (the term that the Council of Ephesus applied to Mary) does not literally translate to “Mother of God”, but rather “God-bearer” or “Birthgiver of God”.

In English we usually use “Mother of God” because “Birthgiver” isn’t really a natural English word, (unlike in e.g. Romanian where you have “Nascatorare”).

Yes I know – but I’m glad you pointed it out (because many do not realize this).