Can Mary be Sinless and Intercede for you?

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
I agree. However the only words of the apostles we have today are found only in the NT and nowhere else.

happilycatholic
Not true for those who follow Christ.

Has the Catholic church ever defined-prounced one word of an apostle outside the NT texts that is not in the NT itself?
For example does the church claim to know what Andrew spoke while he was alive? Does it have some written words of his?

 

[AshleyBelle]

Has the Catholic church ever defined-prounced one word of an apostle outside the NT texts that is not in the NT itself?
For example does the church claim to know what Andrew spoke while he was alive? Does it have some written words of his?

All of the cannon that the Catholic Church declared inspired had to be proven as originating FROM the apostles...

So naturally, all of the “words” of the apostles that we know of would be contained in the Bible… you are correct there

However, it was the TRADITIONS and authority of the church which helped them determine which writings were authentic. The Bible did not come into existence because it told the Catholic Church it was authentic. Rather, the Catholic church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit brought the auntentic Bible into existence because of the traditions and authority given to it by Christ

 

[justasking4]

adstrinity;4377899]Just like the proof of Jesus assending can be tested?

We have eyewitnesses for this. Acts 1:9-11

You are now questioning faith? You want faith to be science.

Our faith needs to be grounded in evidence, Scripture and good reason. We should always test what we are taught or believe. This certainly is the exhortation of I Thess 5:21–But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good

 

[adstrinity]

We have eyewitnesses for this. Acts 1:9-11

Our faith needs to be grounded in evidence, Scripture and good reason. We should always test what we are taught or believe. This certainly is the exhortation of I Thess 5:21–But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good

We have eyewitnesses for Mary’s Assumption. St. Thomas saw it. An eyewitness isn’t proof. An eyewitness is hearsay. We have hearsay that Jesus has ascended.

And of course, you have faith in that book, a book full of events that cannot be PROVEN.

 

[happilycatholic]

See JustAsking, this is where you are a confused individual and keep looking for the whole Deposit of Faith in the Bible.

I am always intrigued by folks who think we worship Mary but have such a worshipping atititude toward the Bible. It’s like you think it’s God instead of the Word of God. If “God” says it, then you’ll believe it. You can take that statement and put the word “Bible” right between the quotes. THAT IS VERY DANGEROUS.

Further, the Bible was not given to us as a means of honoring or worshipping Christ. It is a Book. Just like a cross is a form of matter, so is the Bible. It is a means to know the Word of God and to do His Will, period. If you put a Bible in a room with 10 Atheists, it will not magically prove to them that God exists. They will not pick it up and read it and become believers. In fact like you, they use it to prove their position that God is not a merciful God. It can not give you salvation.

To you, there is nothing more important than the Bible because it is simply a sum of your faith.

To us catholics there is nothing more important than Christ, in the flesh. The Body and Blood of Christ sustain us, not the Bible.

Because you can look at the Bible and read the Bible, you believe that if you believe only what’s in it you’ll have salvation. Well, I hope you are right. But the last time I looked, when those who started believing in a form of matter instead of God, they were severely punished.

40 years in the desert…Hmmm, sounds a lot like Purgatory to me.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

See JustAsking, this is where you are a confused individual and keep looking for the whole Deposit of Faith in the Bible.

I am always intrigued by folks who think we worship Mary but have such a worshipping atititude toward the Bible. It’s like you think it’s God instead of the Word of God. If “God” says it, then you’ll believe it. You can take that statement and put the word “Bible” right between the quotes. THAT IS VERY DANGEROUS.

Further, the Bible was not given to us as a means of honoring or worshipping Christ. It is a Book. Just like a cross is a form of matter, so is the Bible. It is a means to know the Word of God and to do His Will, period. If you put a Bible in a room with 10 Atheists, it will not magically prove to them that God exists. They will not pick it up and read it and become believers. In fact like you, they use it to prove their position that God is not a merciful God. It can not give you salvation.

To you, there is nothing more important than the Bible because it is simply a sum of your faith.

To us catholics there is nothing more important than Christ, in the flesh. The Body and Blood of Christ sustain us, not the Bible.

Because you can look at the Bible and read the Bible, you believe that if you believe only what’s in it you’ll have salvation. Well, I hope you are right. But the last time I looked, when those who started believing in a form of matter instead of God, they were severely punished.

40 years in the desert…Hmmm, sounds a lot like Purgatory to me.

**“For what does it profit if we abstain from fish and fowl and yet bite and devour our brothers and sisters? The evil speaker eats the flesh of his brother and bites the body of his neighbor.” St. John Chrysostom
**

 

[guanophore]

"justasking4:

This must be one of the posters that uses this surname knows what she-he is talking about.

guan is one person, Unlike you people using JustAsking4the100thTime. Guan doesn’t change what he says or how he says it. We watch!

I think this started over the assertion that Christians have conquered death. ja4 pointed out that those who are “in ChrIst” still die, and that death will not be defeated until the last. However, she did state that those who believe in Christ, though they die, the are alive for evermore. I think she was referring to herself, knowing what she was talking about with regard to eternal life/death.

It is a strange assertion, because she also accuses us constantly of “praying to the dead, who can’t hear you”.

Jesus Himself says essentially the samething in John 11:25-26 where He utters pershaps the most important words ever uttered when He says:
25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

JA4 you were so close to the most important words ever uttered by Jesus. You were just 5 chapters to far away from the truth. But you always are aren’t you? Jesus explained in John 6. which reads as follows in the KJV:

(Oh, since they say basically the same here, I didn’t want to force you to have to touch a real Bible! I know it burns! )

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live forever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

John11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die

That verse actually helps prove that the Saints and Blessed Mother are alive doesn’t it? SoCan Mary being sinless can Intercede for us! Notice how your friends pull you back to the OP?!
/QUOTE]

I don’t understand? Can you clarify?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Has the Catholic church ever defined-prounced one word of an apostle outside the NT texts that is not in the NT itself?

**Not sure what you are asking. what does defined-pronounced mean? Can you restate? They all said YES to Jesus, does that help you? Did you ask the Pope, he might know. It is Ok tell him we sent you! **

For example does the church claim to know what Andrew spoke while he was alive? Does it have some written words of his?

Do you claim Andrew couldn’t speak? Not sure what you are asking. You will have to check with the Vatican ,
vatican.va/ we are just workers in the fields. Do you claim that he didn’t speak. Did he speak after he was dead? You you think you will ever stop asking these questions? Did andrew have a kast name? Why didn’t Jesus change his name also? Was he taller than Peter?

 

[guanophore]

If a catholic were to go to the gravesite of cardinal Neuman would and they dug up his grave (unless the church put his dead body on display somewhere) would it be correct to say cardinal Neuman had died and is dead because we can see his dead body?

We believe that his soul is present with God.

Secondly, is it not also true you don’t know the status or condition of his soul? Is it not also true that you do not know that if you pray to his soul that he can hear you since he never answers you back audibly?

We are not to presume the status of any soul, but to wait until it is revealed to us. It would be erroneous for you to assume that there is no interaction or answers. God is able to make things audible to people without vocal cords, and the saints are able to communicate with us when God allows it.

If you answer yes to any of these questions be sure to give me some proof that can tested—

Sorry, ja4. These are spiritual truths that are revealed to the one of spiritual mind. They are not subject to the “proofs” borne of the flesh of man.

It just at this point you start going down “speculation road”. Just because something sounds reasonable does not mean its true.

If that is the case, then your whole NT must be “speculation” since the list of the books that belong in it came from the same source as the doctrine on the communion of saints. How can you trust one, but not the other?

In fact the examples you give here are not about anyone praying to Samuel who was brought up by illegal means

Are you denying that Saul had a conversation with Samuel after he died?

or the Lord Jesus praying to Moses and Elijah. This is why you need to study the context first before you make a claim. Otherwise you and your gang just embarass yourselves and that’s not good…

Speaking of context, I wonder why you might think it was so important for certain Apostles to be present at the transfiguration? Jesus could have had this conversation in private, but chose to have witnesses. Why is that?

It is the Scriptures alone that is the inspired-inerrant Word of God. They tell us what God is like and how we are to live. It is in them that witness to the power of God.

Where do you get this from? Did Jesus mention this kind of thing at the last supper?

Yes.

 

[guanophore]

I agree. However the only words of the apostles we have today are found only in the NT and nowhere else.

This is true for you, because you have cut yourself off from the Source of the Apostolic Teaching appointed by Christ.

Has the Catholic church ever defined-prounced one word of an apostle outside the NT texts that is not in the NT itself?
For example does the church claim to know what Andrew spoke while he was alive? Does it have some written words of his?

Why would this be relevant, since you reject the definitions and pronouncements of the Catholic Church?

Strange question…

We have eyewitnesses for this. Acts 1:9-11

Actually, you don’t. They are all, as you are fond of saying, dead. Dead people cannot be witnesses. That means you are accepting it on hearsay.

Our faith needs to be grounded in evidence, Scripture and good reason. We should always test what we are taught or believe. This certainly is the exhortation of I Thess 5:21–But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good

Wow. None of this relates to the truth as Jesus taught it. So basically, what you are saying is that your religion is based on your perception of the “facts”, your own personal interpretation of the Scripture, and your own reasoning ability (or lack of it).

No wonder it is so sterile and hostile!

 

[justasking4]

happilycatholic;4378116]
See JustAsking, this is where you are a confused individual and keep looking for the whole Deposit of Faith in the Bible.

I may be confused but its not about the Scriptures but Catholic doctrines and claims.

I am always intrigued by folks who think we worship Mary but have such a worshipping atititude toward the Bible. It’s like you think it’s God instead of the Word of God. If “God” says it, then you’ll believe it. You can take that statement and put the word “Bible” right between the quotes. THAT IS VERY DANGEROUS.

I have never asserted the Bible is God. It is however His word to men. I believe its message because the One Who died and rose again demonstrated and taught that it is the Truth and will not pass away.

Further, the Bible was not given to us as a means of honoring or worshipping Christ. It is a Book. Just like a cross is a form of matter, so is the Bible. It is a means to know the Word of God and to do His Will, period.

It also helps us to grow in respect to salvation. See I Peter 2:2. We are to have the words of Christ richly dwell in us—“16 Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.” (Colossians 3:16). The only place to find the words of Christ are found in the Scriptures alone.

If you put a Bible in a room with 10 Atheists, it will not magically prove to them that God exists. They will not pick it up and read it and become believers. In fact like you, they use it to prove their position that God is not a merciful God. It can not give you salvation.

The reason an atheist or a non-christian will not believe or understand its message is because they are still in their unsaved state and consider the Scriptures foolishness. This is borne out in I Corinthians 2: 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

To you, there is nothing more important than the Bible because it is simply a sum of your faith.

It contains the sum of my Christian beliefs and is the foundation. It is also the light for my path that keeps Christ in focus. Without it Christians would be in darkness and not be wise unto Christ.

To us catholics there is nothing more important than Christ, in the flesh. The Body and Blood of Christ sustain us, not the Bible.

Lets assume you are correct. Are you saying that because you eat the Eucharist it makes you more holy and Christ-like? Does it increase your knowledge of Christ after every time you eat of it? Does the mere eating of it grant you eternal life?

Because you can look at the Bible and read the Bible, you believe that if you believe only what’s in it you’ll have salvation. Well, I hope you are right. But the last time I looked, when those who started believing in a form of matter instead of God, they were severely punished.

Then what am I to make of this passage in Romans 10: 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

40 years in the desert…Hmmm, sounds a lot like Purgatory to me.

Trust me. I love the Scriptures and thank God for them but I have never elevated them to the position of worship by praying to them.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

We have eyewitnesses for this. Acts 1:9-11

Our faith needs to be grounded in evidence, Scripture and good reason. We should always test what we are taught or believe. This certainly is the exhortation of I Thess 5:21–But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good

**But where did it say “Our faith needs to be grounded in evidence, Scripture and good reason?” **

**What we should do is follow what the Bible says! Both ****St John and St Peter both warned of false teachers, and Jesus said they may come to us in sheep’s clothing (Matt. 7:15; 1 Jno. 4:1; 2 Pet. 2:1). JA4 do you refere to yourselves as lambs of God? Sure St ****John said our duty is to “test the spirits,” and St Paul said: “Test everything. Hold on to the good.” (1 Thess. 5:21).There is an easy way not to be lead by false prophets who started to come around, lets say, within the past, hmmm, 400 or 500 years or less! **

There is only one body of religious instruction that passes all those tests and should govern all that we believe, teach and practice. That is, the Roman Catholic Church. Nothing should be accepted as true; nothing should be practiced or recommended – unless it is taught by the RCC as true. Each individual must take this obligation seriously their very salvation could depend on it. The Catholic Church is the only denomination grounded in the real interpretation of the Bible! Jesus can’t be wrong!

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;4378849]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Has the Catholic church ever defined-prounced one word of an apostle outside the NT texts that is not in the NT itself?
For example does the church claim to know what Andrew spoke while he was alive? Does it have some written words of his?
Why would this be relevant, since you reject the definitions and pronouncements of the Catholic Church?

Strange question…

It’s a great question that gets to the heart of the matter. I suspect you know what I know about this. Others may not and I encourage them to think deeply about this matter.

Originally Posted by justasking4
We have eyewitnesses for this. Acts 1:9-11

guanophore
Actually, you don’t. They are all, as you are fond of saying, dead. Dead people cannot be witnesses. That means you are accepting it on hearsay.

Not so. Just as we have eyewitnesses to Lincoln’ assignation who are all dead we do believe he was murdered because the accounts are historically trustworthy. So it is with the gospel accounts for His ascension which tells of eyewitnesses witnessing this.

Originally Posted by justasking4
Our faith needs to be grounded in evidence, Scripture and good reason. We should always test what we are taught or believe. This certainly is the exhortation of I Thess 5:21–But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good
guanophore
Wow. None of this relates to the truth as Jesus taught it. So basically, what you are saying is that your religion is based on your perception of the “facts”, your own personal interpretation of the Scripture, and your own reasoning ability (or lack of it).

True and so is everyone’ else. They to are relying on what they consider facts etc and basing their faith on them. For example: to believe that your church cannot err in matters of faith no matter what requires them to think it through as you suggest and base their faith on that reasoning.

No wonder it is so sterile and hostile!

 

[justasking4]

Realcatholicgk;4378864]**
Originally Posted by justasking4
We have eyewitnesses for this. Acts 1:9-11

Realcatholicgk
Our faith needs to be grounded in evidence, Scripture and good reason. We should always test what we are taught or believe. This certainly is the exhortation of I Thess 5:21–But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good
But where did it say “Our faith needs to be grounded in evidence, Scripture and good reason?” **

It permeates the Scriptures. Lets use Paul as an example:
• After his conversion, he immediately “baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus was the Christ”: (Acts 9.22)
• “He talked and debated with the Grecian Jews…” (Acts 9.29)
• He appeals to eye-witnesses often for his claims (Acts 13.31; I Cor 15)
• He appeals to seasonal patterns as evidence of God’s character (Acts 14. 17)
• He appeals to concrete experiences even in theological debates (Acts 15.12)
• “he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead” (Acts 17.2-3)

He is one of the many examples in scripture that we are to follow.

What we should do is follow what the Bible says! Both St John and St Peter both warned of false teachers, and Jesus said they may come to us in sheep’s clothing (Matt. 7:15; 1 Jno. 4:1; 2 Pet. 2:1).

Who does this apply to? How are we as individuals to apply this warning to ourselves?

JA4 do you refere to yourselves as lambs of God? Sure St John said our duty is to “test the spirits,” and St Paul said: “Test everything. Hold on to the good.” (1 Thess. 5:21).There is an easy way not to be lead by false prophets who started to come around, lets say, within the past, hmmm, 400 or 500 years or less!
There is only one body of religious instruction that passes all those tests and should govern all that we believe, teach and practice. That is, the Roman Catholic Church. Nothing should be accepted as true; nothing should be practiced or recommended – unless it is taught by the RCC as true.

This fails the exhortation of Scripture that warned that false teachers would come into the church itself and deceive many. We must always be on guard even among our own churches. If you just accept what your church says then you are not living by this exhortation.

Each individual must take this obligation seriously their very salvation could depend on it. The Catholic Church is the only denomination grounded in the real interpretation of the Bible!

This claim cannot be sustained by Scripture for the mere fact the Catholic church has not completely followed the Scriptures with some of its teachings and practices.

Jesus can’t be wrong!

i agree. However men can and are. There is a long history in your church to support this.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I may be confused but its not about the Scriptures but Catholic doctrines and claims.

What is. I may be confused could you restate what you meant?

I have never asserted the Bible is God. It is however His word to men. I believe its message because the One Who died and rose again demonstrated and taught that it is the Truth and will not pass away.

**Ja4 I understand exactly what you are saying. If it isn’t in the Bible God didn’t say it, But that isn’t true. So yes yuo are making the Bible a demi god of sorts. I don’t like the “others” laughing behind your back. We both know that Jesus never demonstrated and taught that the Bible is the Truth and will not pass away! He was talking about the RCC and the “others” know it also! The Bible was was written well after his death! **

It also helps us to grow in respect to salvation. See I Peter 2:2. We are to have the words of Christ richly dwell in us—“16 Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.” (Colossians 3:16). The only place to find the words of Christ are found in the Scriptures alone.** **
JA4 there you go again we both know that isn’t true! Wait until guan reads that he will be all over you. Apologize and he may let it go!

The reason an atheist or a non-christian will not believe or understand its message is because they are still in their unsaved state and consider the Scriptures foolishness. This is borne out in I Corinthians 2: 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

It contains the sum of my Christian beliefs and is the foundation. It is also the light for my path that keeps Christ in focus. Without it Christians would be in darkness and not be wise unto Christ.

The truth should be your foundation the Bible is one of the truths it isn’t the whole! The worse thing the Cathjolic Church did was assemble a book to help at church services. Look how many souls have been lost due to their believing what they want from the Bible. I heard that there are currently 1,375 seprate doctrines in the 33,000 counterfeit denominations not counting the 28,000 imitation sub denominations they have. At least the catholic Church can help to save their lost souls!

Lets assume you are correct. Are you saying that because you eat the Eucharist it makes you more holy and Christ-like? Does it increase your knowledge of Christ after every time you eat of it? Does the mere eating of it grant you eternal life?

Yes. it gives us eternal life as Jesus said. He didn’t lie did he? Myself, I have a “religious” (excuse the word) experience when I consume the Body of my savior! It purifies me!

Then what am I to make of this passage in Romans 10: 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

That you personally, have no Faith?

Trust me. I love the Scriptures and thank God for them but I have never elevated them to the position of worship by praying to them.

**That was just too cute! Aren’t you precious! JA4, we pray to the sinless Mother of Jesus to intercede for us and you sneek in another lie that we elevate her to a position of worship by praying to her! With your twisted thelogogy, YOU worship a false god my friend. How do I know? Simple, he has blinded you to the truth. **
**We pray for you. I am sure the Blessed Mother will forgive you. I just Hope her son will also! He has a temper! He whipped some others that thought the were doing His Father’s will! **

 

[Gamera]

This fails the exhortation of Scripture that warned that false teachers would come into the church itself and deceive many. We must always be on guard even among our own churches. If you just accept what your church says then you are not living by this exhortation.

No, two totally different things. Scripture warns that individual false teachers would come into the Church, you’re correct about that, but nowhere does Scripture say that the entire church as a whole is capable of error. Being on the lookout for individual false teachers within the Church is not the same thing as “being on guard” against the entire Church itself. Of course we “just accept what our Church says,” precisely because the Church as a whole is incapable of false teaching. You are taking individual Scripture verses which warn against individual false teachers within the Church, and extrapolating a notion that we are supposed to “be on guard against” the entire Church. Such a notion is utterly foreign to the Scriptures.

 

[rinnie]

**“For what does it profit if we abstain from fish and fowl and yet bite and devour our brothers and sisters? The evil speaker eats the flesh of his brother and bites the body of his neighbor.” St. John Chrysostom
**

Priceless, I haven’t heard that one in years!

 

[justasking4]

adstrinity;4377984]We have eyewitnesses for Mary’s Assumption. St. Thomas saw it.

The documentation for her assumption is quite late. Note this quote from the Catholic ency:
"The first six centuries did not know of the tomb of Mary at Jerusalem.

The belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary is founded on the **apocryphal **treatise De Obitu S. Dominae, bearing the name of St. John, which belongs however to the fourth or fifth century. It is also found in the book De Transitu Virginis, falsely ascribed to St. Melito of Sardis, and in a spurious letter attributed to St. Denis the Areopagite. If we consult genuine writings in the East, it is mentioned in the sermons of St. Andrew of Crete, St. John Damascene, St. Modestus of Jerusalem and others. In the West, St. Gregory of Tours (De gloria mart., I, iv) mentions it first. The sermons of St. Jerome and St. Augustine for this feast, however, are spurious. St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96) thus formulates the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem:

St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven."

As you can see the idea of her assumption is based on a false gospel and its centuries after the purported event.

An eyewitness isn’t proof. An eyewitness is hearsay. We have hearsay that Jesus has ascended.

Eyewitnesses in a court of law helps to determine if someone is guilty or not and can either set a man free or cause him to lose his life. Eyewitness accounts are absolutely vital to the truth claims of Christianity.

And of course, you have faith in that book, a book full of events that cannot be PROVEN.

The Scriptures are quite reliable from a broad range of perspectives. There is nothing like them. My faith is in the One in Whom is the source of the Scriptures.

 

[guanophore]

I may be confused but its not about the Scriptures but Catholic doctrines and claims.

Well, what would happen if you just gave in to your base desires and conclusions that these doctrines and claims are all speculations of men, and reduce your confusion by eliminating your exposure? If you spent your time with only others that believe as you do, you would not be exposed to things that could confuse you. Does not the scripture say that you should have nothing to do with false doctrines? How do you justify your disobedience to the scriptures?

I have never asserted the Bible is God. It is however His word to men. I believe its message because the One Who died and rose again demonstrated and taught that it is the Truth and will not pass away.

Yet, you are not content. YOu still feel compelled, in spite of the fact that you say you have all you need, to pluck at the beards of others who believe differently.

16 **Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you**, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.” (Colossians  3:16). The only place to find the words of Christ are found in the Scriptures alone.

If this were true, then what “words” do you think Paul was referring to here, since the scriptures had not yet been penned?

This is borne out in I Corinthians 2: 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

Good example! This explains perfectly why you are unable to understand the communion of saints, intercession, Sacred Tradition, and so many other Catholic beliefs.

It contains the sum of my Christian beliefs and is the foundation. It is also the light for my path that keeps Christ in focus. Without it Christians would be in darkness and not be wise unto Christ.

This is well said. Since your religion is based upon a book, it depends upon that book, and without it, there is darkness. This is a very good definition of idolatry.

Lets assume you are correct. Are you saying that because you eat the Eucharist it makes you more holy and Christ-like? Does it increase your knowledge of Christ after every time you eat of it? Does the mere eating of it grant you eternal life?

Yes to all, but what has this got to do with the topic?

Trust me. I love the Scriptures and thank God for them but I have never elevated them to the position of worship by praying to them.

Perhaps not. You just center your faith around them, which amounts to the same result.

 

[guanophore]

True and so is everyone’ else. They to are relying on what they consider facts etc and basing their faith on them. For example: to believe that your church cannot err in matters of faith no matter what requires them to think it through as you suggest and base their faith on that reasoning.

No. We rely on Divine Revelation, which is foolishness to men. Our faith is based upon the person of Christ, by whom the Church is founded, and Who is Himself her Head.

The promises of the Son of God we receive by faith also, and judge by that faith that He is able to keep them. On the contrary, I think much of our faith defies reason.

Who does this apply to? How are we as individuals to apply this warning to ourselves?

It applies to those who try to bring a “new gospel”, different than the one that was delivered by the Apostles, such as Sola Scriptura. We should mark those who do such things,a nd avoid them.

This fails the exhortation of Scripture that warned that false teachers would come into the church itself and deceive many. We must always be on guard even among our own churches. If you just accept what your church says then you are not living by this exhortation.

It’s ok, ja4. We know you are here, and we are on guard! :knight2:

This claim cannot be sustained by Scripture for the mere fact the Catholic church has not completely followed the Scriptures with some of its teachings and practices.

We certainly have not followed your fallible interpretation of them, I will grant you that!

i agree. However men can and are. There is a long history in your church to support this.

Are you implying that the frailty of men is more powerful than the Spirit of God?