Can Mary be Sinless and Intercede for you?

[justasking4]

PJM;4419455]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Where in the passage does it make you think Gabriel is making some kind of implicit claim that Mary has been sinless her entire life?

PJM
Reply: Mt.26:26 “hail Full of Grace” (Full means no room for sin, amen?)
Here is the verse you quoted: While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”

You must have quoted the wrong verse since this has nothing to do with Mary being sinless.

How can we know? Good question. Common Sense.

I’m kiddin right? Nope

God is Perfect, will only accept perfect, “be you perfect as My heavenly Father is Perfect.” Thus Mary HAD TO BE PERFECT inorder to become the Mother of God.

Huh?? This passage in Matthew 5:48 is not about Mary being sinless.

As a SINGULAR God kept her that way. Why? another good question, could the Mother OF GOD be know as a sinner, and not effect the Sin Free Ministry of Her sin? NOPE:thumbsup:

Why not? Is sin more powerful than God? Is it able to contaminate His nature?

God bless you,
PJM m.c.

Ditto

 

[RobGentner]

I just answered Rinnie. I just hope he-she doesn’t read yours and your gang’ posts. Talk about massive confusion…

rinnie is a guy. Can’t you keep anything straight? Which one is this? Is it you Steve?

By now you know that “full of grace” does not mean without sin. I can repost the defintion again if you are still confused…

You better, I still think FULL meant “no room” is she was full of grace are you sure there was room for sin? Where did you read that in scripture? Do you have a reference?

Secondly there were all kinds of people who were close to the Lord Jesus called disciples and not one of them ever claims to be sinless…

Well that Peter, seems like he would have don’t you think? Until Jesus told him he would deny Him three times, Peter thought he could do no wrong didn’t he? And our oral traditions refers to some others that indicated they were full of themselves! Hey, That would be a “Great” name for your new religion “Full of Ourselves” I am sorry, I checked Baptist was already takren. maybe you could translate it to Greek and it wound sound better?

Let me encourage you and your gang to go back the drawing board and try something else…:banghead:

**I, like you need no encouragement! Just say somethign stupid and I will run with it for you! It is my pleasure. I want peop,e to take everything you say in the serious light it deserves! **

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Stop banging you head, that hurts!

God Bless

 

[justasking4]

RobGentner;4419833]
Well I am glad yuo and rinnie are talking again! Try and be nicer! We both know you have a big heart!

Its not always easy having the biggest heart at CAF with “friends” like you.

justasking4
Since Christ died for our sins and took the penalty of them i.e. hell forever we need not fear hell. Romans 8:1 is clear about this where it says–Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
RobGentner;
That is so true. Party your house, tonight! You bring the booze, I’ll pick up some women we will have an orgy! Make sure you have a lot of phorno films! Thanks for reminding us that we can’t sin any more!

I can’t since i’m a follower of Christ. Even though we are no longer condemned it does not mean we cannot no longer sin.

justasking4
Hell is about condemnation and Christ by His death and resurrection has delivered all believers from that.
RobGentner;
Is this a new religion you are going to start? Does it involve nailing red jello to the wall? we could smear it all over our bodies. No wait, that has been done. I think your nailing it to the wall will be unique! You could do it in the sign of a Cross! Yea, If I was you, I would stick with that!

If i were to start a new one i would start with a scapular…

justasking4
Sorry about that. Sometimes i miss it but most of the time there are some of my “friends” who need more attention. They are the ones who are most confused…

RobGentner;
That is what I love about you. Giving, giving, and giving. You do that almost as much as you ask, and ask, and ask! What a person!

i wish others appreciated me-us as much as you do.

Reference being confused, would you mind going over this new religion you want to start? Can we make a lot money? I might join if I can have dule citizenship (Would that be the correct term to use? See I get so confused!) If I can remain a pratical catholic and we can make big bucks with yuor new religion count me in! I mean Jesus already save us! We can have Booze, and the rest! Have you thought of making the seven deadly sins you seven sacraments? That would be awesome! I can see the fire of hell now! Burning more brightly!

Good point. We already have a good role model in Tetzel. He was able to finance the cathedral in Rome. Correct?

 

[RobGentner]

Its not always easy having the biggest heart at CAF with “friends” like you.

**Well JA4 I do what I can to help you appear smarter. It takes all my efforts. But I am her for you! **

I can’t since i’m a follower of Christ. Even though we are no longer condemned it does not mean we cannot no longer sin.

First did you really mean “cannot no” that means we can doesn’t it?

**Anyway, make up our minds for us! I already called half a doxen of the guys! So we can still sin? Do you have a Bible reference for that? Of course you do! clarify for me> But if we can still sin so what? We aren’t condemned lets enjoy the sin! No? I thought that was your idea. No punishment we can sin all we desire! Have you been reading another one of those Protestant Bibles again? I warned you about that! **

If i were to start a new one i would start with a scapular…

**Great idea! But, don’t use Purple or Pink too “gay” if you know what I mean! Remember what God said about gays in the bible? Well he actually only spoke about them and their sins 6 times. He spoke about hetersexual sins over 372 times, but you knew that. Myself, I think straight people just need more “watching”. Anyway, Maroon would be nice. We don’t have Maroon scapulars. Oh, Just a minute … **

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[SIGN]MARY IS SINLESS AND CAN INTERCEDE FOR ME[/SIGN]

The OP, I don’t want anyone complaining!

i wish others appreciated me-us as much as you do.

**In all sincerely I am sure they do! I have even seen some of them attempt to tell you just how much, but you being shy don’t pay attention to them! **

Good point. We already have a good role model in Tetzel. He was able to finance the cathedral in Rome. Correct?

**Is he still around? I thought he died a long time ago! See what I know! Is he going to bankroll your new religion? Can I join? Please explain the red jello theory again. Were you speaking in parables? Are you going to do like some of them other guys and pretend you are another Jesus? If so I won’t join. **

I only follow the real Jesus. He is my salvation. Hail Mary, Full of Grace, thank you for providing us the means to obtain salvation. Holy mary tell you on;y son I love Him with all my hreart and soul! Amen!

Ok lets play some more…it is your turn to say something stupid…

I am learning!

God Bless

 

[rinnie]

Since Christ died for our sins and took the penalty of them i.e. hell forever we need not fear hell. Romans 8:1 is clear about this where it says–Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Hell is about condemnation and Christ by His death and resurrection has delivered all believers from that.

Sorry about that. Sometimes i miss it but most of the time there are some of my “friends” who need more attention. They are the ones who are most confused…

Sorry now I didn’t ask you to quote scripture for me, I asked you if you can fall from grace. What are you saying yes or no, Thats probally easier. Sometimes I can be so dense. So lets make it easy Yes or no. Besides that scripture you quoted is silly. Of course if you are in the Grace of God you are assured of salvation, but that is not what I asked you. Are you saying we are all going to heaven if we believe in God. Then again scrap that you tell me what you mean.

 

[RobHom]

Here is how the New American Bible (Catholic bible) translates it:
28 And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”

And this is how it is written in the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible which is the most exact translation on the planet:

drbo.org/chapter/49001.htm

**28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. **

Frankly…you should stick with quoting from a “correct” Bible.

 

[RobHom]

If it is a 3rd century scroll…it would indicate that it was written in the 200’s AD… so it would have been at most 2 centuries. The fact that this scroll was dated to then implies that for it to have been recorded as such, it bore some lasting importance. Coupling that with the fact that Origen commented on it, seems to make it clear that it wasn’t exactly a “passing fancy”. It appears to have been a rather accepted teaching. As to whether or not it was “universal”… I can’t really say, but it definitely appears that it was more wide spread than originally thought up until 1938.

Hmmm, no rebuttal from Justasking4? Seems the point was well made? Irrefutable? YES!!

Keep in mind that there have been other scrolls found that have validated things…like the Apocrypha… here is a source for that information: jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/apocrypha.html These scrolls were found by accident in 1947. So, it would seem reasonable that there is even more yet to be found…or at least the possibility exists. I think that we may find more and the information contained within them will explain things further… Basically given the information found on the scrolls related to the Sub Tuum…it would seem that the belief was in place for quite some time.

Hmmm, no rebuttal from Justasking4? Seems the point was well made? Irrefutable? YES!!

Hmmmm, like “sola scriptura”…

Hmmm, no rebuttal from Justasking4? Seems the point was well made? Irrefutable? YES!!

Justasking4, my friend, or friends, whatever the case may be… You really need to find another subject to :banghead: on. You can try to twist words and use multiple copies of the Bible to justify what you think to be true…but as long as you refuse to admit that both “Truth” and actual HISTORY deny your premises, you are just doing this: :banghead:

 

[rinnie]

Help me out here ja4

gal:18 But when you are led by the spirit you are not under the law. When self-indulgence is at word the results are obvious sexual vice, impurity and sensuality, the worship of false gods, sorcery antagonisms and rifalry, jealousy bad temper, and quarrels disagrements factions and malice drunkenness orgies and all such things. And about these I tell you now as I have told you in the past that people who behave in these ways will not inherit the kingdom of God.
What does that mean?

 

[RobHom]

Its not always easy having the biggest heart at CAF with “friends” like you.

Now, now…if you can’t take the heat…back away from the fire.

I can’t since i’m a follower of Christ. Even though we are no longer condemned it does not mean we cannot no longer sin.

Now you are sounding like a Catholic…a little bit anyway.

If i were to start a new one i would start with a scapular…

It would be a reasonable start…

i wish others appreciated me-us as much as you do.

I do appreciate you, and I mean that very seriously!! It is because of people like you that many Catholics who frequent sites like this end up learning more and more about their religion and their faith and belief grows in leaps and bounds… I own people like you a great THANK YOU!!!

Good point. We already have a good role model in Tetzel. He was able to finance the cathedral in Rome. Correct?

Hmmmm, is it possible that we could make the same claim about non-Catholic “televangelists” …who appeal for money like these guys?

worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43268 WOW!!!

time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,867048,00.html?iid=digg_share WOW!!!

bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=28522&ref=BPNews-RSSFeed0723 WOW!!!

evolvinginkansas.blogspot.com/2007/10/richard-roberts-lays-hands-on-oral.html WOW!!!

And this one is really SPECIAL!!!: tvacres.com/death_misc_oral.htm

At least when Tetzel was collecting money…everyone knew where it was going… It built a Church!!

Want more examples you can use as role models???

 

[RobGentner]

Help me out here ja4

gal:18 But when you are led by the spirit you are not under the law. When self-indulgence is at word the results are obvious sexual vice, impurity and sensuality, the worship of false gods, sorcery antagonisms and rifalry, jealousy bad temper, and quarrels disagrements factions and malice drunkenness orgies and all such things. And about these I tell you now as I have told you in the past that people who behave in these ways will not inherit the kingdom of God.

What does that mean?

**rinnie, My dear,
I think it means that you found the secret dogmas of the Protestant Reformation! If I am wrong Ja4 will let me know. They are so much smarter that I am! **

 

[RobGentner]

Now, now…if you can’t take the heat…back away from the fire.
**

Errrrrr Rob2, you know where JA4 is headed. Now was that nice to say? I am “Just asking!” **

Now you are sounding like a Catholic…a little bit anyway.

Boy, if you didn’t add that “a little bit anyway.” :manvspc:

It would be a reasonable start…

**Want in? It seems they want to start a new religion of some kind! It does invove some kinky stuff with red jello and selling passes to sin or something like that. He said he had some guy named Pretzel, No wait, I think his street name is Tetzel, Yea, that’s it! Anyway, I think this guy Tetzel is bankrolling the entire operation, I could be wrong. **

I do appreciate you, and I mean that very seriously! It is because of people like you that many Catholics who frequent sites like this end up learning more and more about their religion and their faith and belief grows in leaps and bounds… I own people like you a great THANK YOU!!!

**
Rob2. I join you! 100% NO JOKING! We love you JA4!
JA4 actually doesn’t realize what a blessing they are to this site. Without them, we would have normal civilized discussions about faith.:coffeeread: Yea, there are others, sand and some others but I think JA4 is the best help we have in getting catholics to do research and learn about their religion. When I talked to the Vatican last week I asked them if they hired JA4 to help reinforce our faith. They like JA4 refused to answer! Hmmm.
**

Hmmmm, is it possible that we could make the same claim about non-Catholic “televangelists” …who appeal for money like these guys?

**Rob2, Do you know most Protestants I know of wish those guys were Catholics? Even their own people are embarrassed with them! And what is it with all the “comb overs” They should lay their hands on their own heads and grow hair! :extrahappy: They all use to sell used cars if what I read is correct, I could be wrong. **

worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43268 WOW!!!

time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,867048,00.html?iid=digg_share WOW!!!

bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=28522&ref=BPNews-RSSFeed0723 WOW!!!

evolvinginkansas.blogspot.com/2007/10/richard-roberts-lays-hands-on-oral.html WOW!!!

And this one is really SPECIAL!!!: tvacres.com/death_misc_oral.htm

At least when Tetzel was collecting money…everyone knew where it was going… It built a Church!!

**I wonder what we could get for it? The baptist might buy it! Or maybe our new president elect, hmmm, what’s his name? Oshamea? might want a European getaway! **

Want more examples you can use as **role models??? **

 

[Peter_J]

Sorry about that. Sometimes i miss it but most of the time there are some of my “friends” who need more attention. They are the ones who are most confused…

Thing is, it can sometimes give the impression that you’re only responding to posts that fit your stereotype/caricature of “Catholicism”.

(Okay okay, I should say “primarily” rather than “only”.)

 

[guanophore]

As you know i’m pretty stupid and i take this as an Oral Tradition.

It is best not to take names to yourself, ja4. It is unscriptural to call your self by names that the scripture does not. Therefore, since you cannot find a place in scripture that tells you you are stupid, then I would say you are out of order doing this.

Who says Mary needs the church for her to forgive sins like a priest?

This question does not make any sense, and seems to be off topic. Mary, like all of us, can forgive people who sin against her. I pray that she will forgive you for biting and tearing at her Son’s Body.

Is not Mary greater in power and authority than any priest or pope ?

I think that is a decision that is up to God, don’t you think? All authority and power comes from him, and He can distribute it as He wills.

There are times we need our memories refreshed and especially when we are discussing a topic like this.

That is why I suggested that you search the posts made previously under this username.

Mary certainly is identified closely with the Brown Scapular and the privilege associated with it. Wearing the scapluar promises to take time off in purgatory. Here are 2 promises from it: the Blessed Virgin Mary’s promise that “whoever dies clothed in this (Scapular) shall not suffer eternal fire” and “Through the Sabbatine Privilege, we can be released from Purgatory on the first Saturday (Sabbath) after death.” The scapluar is one means in which Mary intercedes for catholics.

This is part of a private revelation, ja4. It would be much more beneficial for you to spend time learning about the basics, such as the meaning of baptism.

Being full of grace means being without sin. Nothing unclean can enter heaven, that is why only those who are full of grace can be inheaven. If you understood baptism, you would know this.

Why not? Is sin more powerful than God? Is it able to contaminate His nature?

Sin is able to contaminate human nature. But, the Apostles taught that Jesus took on the form of a slave. this is why He needed flesh untainted by sin.

 

[Snow]

History shows that Peter was crucified upside down in Rome and he was buried underneath St. Peter’s Basilicia which was originally a stadium where Christians were persecuted.

Uh - no.

“History” doesn’t show that Peter was crucified upside down in Rome. Tradition says he was but the historical proof is not there.

 

[guanophore]

most of the time there are some of my “friends” who need more attention. They are the ones who are most confused…

By now you know that “full of grace” does not mean without sin. I can repost the defintion again if you are still confused…

Let me encourage you and your gang to go back the drawing board and try something else…:banghead:

ja4, CAF is for people who have genuine and sincere questions about the Catholic faith. It is not a venue for you to re-educate Catholics with your errant views. If you wish to "straighten’ people out, then I suggest you open your own forum, and invite anyone there who seems to require your tutelage.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**Hi guanophore,

Excellent Post! You are so much more charitable than I am.:takethat: I learn from you and PeterJ every day! You are both excellent men! Keep up the great work. I will continue to repeat that The Blessed Mother Mary can be sinless and intercede for all of us. **She does every day! OP!

I will now supply some badly needed Humor into this thread!

Four brothers left home for college, and they became successful doctors and lawyers and prospered. Some years later, they chatted after having dinner together. They discussed the gifts they were able to give their elderly mother who lived far away in another city.

Milton, the first said, “I had a big house built for Mama.”

Marvin, the second said, " I had a hundred thousand dollar theater built in the house."

Michael, the third said, “I had my Mercedes dealer deliver an SL600 to her.”

Melvin, the fourth said, “You know how Mamma loved reading the Bible and you know she can’t read anymore because she can’t see very well. I met this priest who told me about a parrot that can recite the entire bible. It took twenty Monks 12 years to teach him. I had to pledge to contribute $100,000 a year for twenty years to the Catholic Church, but it was worth it. Mamma just has to name the chapter and verse and the parrot will recite it.”

The other brothers were impressed.

After the holidays Mom sent out her Thank You notes.

She wrote: “Milton, the house you built is so huge I live in only one room, but I have to clean the whole house. Thanks anyway.”

“Marvin, I am too old to travel. I stay home, I have my groceries delivered, so I never use the Mercedes. But, the thought was good. Thanks.”

“Michael, you gave me and expensive theater with Dolby sound, it could hold 50 people, but all of my friends are dead, I’ve lost my hearing and I’m nearly blind. I’ll never use it. Thank you for the gesture; just the same.”

“Dearest Melvin, you were the only son to have the good sense to give a little thought to your gift. The chicken was delicious! Thank you!”

freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing024.gif​

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Uh - no.

“History” doesn’t show that Peter was crucified upside down in Rome. Tradition says he was but the historical proof is not there.

** Hi Snow, :tiphat:

manny was correct. [usually is! ] “History” actually does show that St Peter was crucified upside down. While there are no Biblical references to the deaths of the apostles, there are many references outside of the Bible as to the death of some of the apostles and others who featured in Gospel accounts. The catacombs of St Sebastian in Rome where the bodies of St Peter and St Paul were hidden at the time of Christian persecution contained references to the deaths of both these apostles; the writings of many early Christians, including Polycarp and his contemporaries contain references to the martyrdom of some apostles.
In addition to these are the oral traditions you mentioned that have passed down through word of mouth many of which tie up with the last resting places of some of the apostles and other New Testament characters - such as St Mark’s tomb in Venice, St Thomas’s tomb in India and St James’ tomb in Santiago de Compostela, Spain.
Both Oral tradition and some early non-biblical writings confirm that St Peter was indeed crucified upside down in Rome some time around the tiime of Paul’s execution in the same city. St. Paul, however, being a Roman citizen as well as a Jew, was offered the relatively swift death by beheading by sword, as crucifixion was reserved only for foreigners. **

 

[Realcatholicgk]

** Hi Snow, :tiphat:

Not to attack you in any way but why did you say that? Where did you get your information? Did you know that manny was correct? and usually is! ] “History” ,as we know it, actually does show that St Peter was crucified upside down.
While there are no Biblical references to the deaths of the apostles, there are many references outside of the Bible as to the death of some of the apostles and others who featured in Gospel accounts. The catacombs of St Sebastian in Rome where the bodies of St Peter and St Paul were hidden at the time of Christian persecution contained references to the deaths of both these apostles; the writings of many early Christians, including Polycarp and his contemporaries contain references to the martyrdom of some apostles.
In addition to these are the oral traditions you mentioned that have passed down through word of mouth many of which tie up with the last resting places of some of the apostles and other New Testament characters - such as St Mark’s tomb in Venice, St Thomas’s tomb in India and St James’ tomb in Santiago de Compostela, Spain.
Both Oral tradition and some early non-biblical writings confirm that St Peter was indeed crucified upside down in Rome some time around the time of Paul’s execution in the same city. St. Paul, however, being a Roman citizen as well as a Jew, was offered the relatively swift death by beheading by sword, as crucifixion was reserved only for foreigners. **

 

[Peter_J]

Where in the passage does it make you think Gabriel is making some kind of implicit claim that Mary has been sinless her entire life?

Have you looked at the link I provided (about the meaning of kecharitoméne)?

 

[PJM]

Here is the verse you quoted: While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”

You must have quoted the wrong verse since this has nothing to do with Mary being sinless.

Opps! Thanks for the lesson in humility!

Here is the correct one (at least I rememberd the v26

26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.** 28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, * the Lord is with you!**” * 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. 30* And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31* And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33* and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end.” 34* And Mary said to the angel, “How shall this be, since I have no husband?” 35* And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born * will be called holy, the Son of God.

Why not? Is sin more powerful than God? Is it able to contaminate His nature?

Yea it is! Go figure, God Himself permits it to be so! Is it able to contaminate Him? Nope.

God is COMPLETE in every GOOD WAY, so nothing we do actually impacts God for better or for worse. Good actions simply aconform to His Diviane Will (we benefit with grace), while evile or bad actions are assults to His Divine Will (we sin) and pay the consequences. Amen?

Nice talking to you again! God Bless you,

PJM m.c.