Can Mary convince God to save someone who doesn't deserve it?

[James248]

as he said about his concern,

“this may be a misunderstanding on my part of what Mary’s role actually is”.

I’m not denying that. I’m just saying that the OP’s position is understandable considering sthe things posted on Mary are pretty hard to get.

 

[Tomyris]

I’m not denying that. I’m just saying that the OP’s position is understandable considering sthe things posted on Mary are pretty hard to get.

The question is fundamentally flawed since none of us deserves salvation.

 

[Church_Militant]

I’m not denying that. I’m just saying that the OP’s position is understandable considering sthe things posted on Mary are pretty hard to get.

The question is fundamentally flawed since none of us deserves salvation.

I agree, but I don’t think it’s an issue since we have a resounding statement from Mary herself in John 2:5 which echoes the same message in every Marian apparition in history…"Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye."

 

[Tomyris]

I agree, but I don’t think it’s an issue since we have a resounding statement from Mary herself in John 2:5 which echoes the same message in every Marian apparition in history…"Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye."

You make an excellent point. We should not be so worried about what some hypothetical soul may receive in the way of intervention or mercy as much as doing what He said to us. If we do that, we should have no worries.

I have enough trouble with what I clearly understand. There is a lot out there I am fuzzy on. Years ago I heard a pastor comparing it to eating fish. He eats the meat, which he can eat, and takes out the bones, which he can’t, and sets them aside, the bones being the things he can’t yet understand. But there is a lot to chew on.

 

[James248]

The question is fundamentally flawed since none of us deserves salvation.

True.

 

[Magdalena59]

Figured this question, that I raised in another topic, was best suited to be a separate topic.

I’ve read some claims from those who emphasize Marian devotion, that it’s actually possible for God to relent and agree to save a soul that deserves to be damned, if Mary asks for that favor.

This strikes me as almost blasphemous and attributing salvific powers to Mary that she does not have. Though this may be a misunderstanding on my part of what Mary’s role actually is.

I also find some takes on the Brown Scapular, that merely wearing it is a guarantee to go to Heaven, to be rather superstitious, though I understand there is actually much more to the devotion than that.

I did not read through all the posts so I’m sorry if I am stating something someone has already said but salvific power does come from God. What ever abilities Mary has comes from God. Jesus is the one who redeemed us. Mary co-operates with that redemption by interceding for us. When we pray the Hail Mary we are asking for her to intercede for us “now and at the hour of our death” and so because of her great love for us and her obedience to God, that is what she does.

Also, God is love. God wants all to be saved and He listens to prayer. As evidenced at the wedding at Cana, He listens to the Blessed Mother’s prayers but all of us can pray for someone now and at the hour of their death asking God to have mercy on that person’s soul and spare them from the fires of hell.

Our Lady asked us at Fatima to pray for the conversion of sinners and to do acts of reparation, or penance, for sinners.

She gave us this prayer to be included in our rosary:

Oh my God forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.

Mary and Jesus have a special relationship as Mother and Son. She does not ask anything outside of her Son’s will but at the same time when she is asking according to His will, her prayers are very powerful.

God bless.

 

[steve_b]

I did not read through all the posts so I’m sorry if I am stating something someone has already said but salvific power does come from God. What ever abilities Mary has comes from God. Jesus is the one who redeemed us. Mary co-operates with that redemption by interceding for us. When we pray the Hail Mary we are asking for her to intercede for us “now and at the hour of our death” and so because of her great love for us and her obedience to God, that is what she does.

Also, God is love. God wants all to be saved and He listens to prayer. As evidenced at the wedding at Cana, He listens to the Blessed Mother’s prayers but all of us can pray for someone now and at the hour of their death asking God to have mercy on that person’s soul and spare them from the fires of hell.

Our Lady asked us at Fatima to pray for the conversion of sinners and to do acts of reparation, or penance, for sinners.

She gave us this prayer to be included in our rosary:

Oh my God forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.

Mary and Jesus have a special relationship as Mother and Son. She does not ask anything outside of her Son’s will but at the same time when she is asking according to His will, her prayers are very powerful.

God bless.

exactly

 

[MarkInOregon]

That reply really seems to be lacking.

The OP specifically spoke of the time on Judgement Day when a vile and sinful person comes before God’s throne.

Are you suggesting that any of us are not vile and sinful persons before God? Compared to God what do you think our souls look like? Will we not be vile and sinful people ourselves coming before God and imploring his mercy? On judgement day do any of us really “deserve” to be saved? Is it not through Gods mercy that all of us–who are all undeserving–are saved? It would seem to me that we should guard against this tendency to look at those around us and think that we’re not so bad compared to them–it can give us the false sense that somehow we are deserving of Gods mercy, but those other terrible sinful people over there are somehow not–it can lead to a complacency. I fear I will have great sins of omission to account for if I am so lucky as to be saved.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[James248]

Are you suggesting that any of us are not vile and sinful persons before God? Compared to God what do you think our souls look like? Will we not be vile and sinful people ourselves coming before God and imploring his mercy? On judgement day do any of us really “deserve” to be saved? Is it not through Gods mercy that all of us–who are all undeserving–are saved? It would seem to me that we should guard against this tendency to look at those around us and think that we’re not so bad compared to them–it can give us the false sense that somehow we are deserving of Gods mercy, but those other terrible sinful people over there are somehow not–it can lead to a complacency. I fear I will have great sins of omission to account for if I am so lucky as to be saved.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

No. I am talking of a guy who is before the throne on judgement day. There are no chances for anyone on judgement day.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

OP here; just to clarify I was referring specifically to a scenario brought up in another topic, that describes Jesus about to condemn the sinner at the sinner’s personal judgment, only to stay His hand because Mary speaks up for the sinner and persuades her Son to grant the sinner mercy.

I wasn’t even sure how to explain what bothered me about this but good Father Ruggerio hit on it – that this scenario and some other disordered expressions of Marian devotion, present Mary as having more mercy, and being more committed to the salvation of souls, than Jesus himself.