Can Montanism and Pentecostalism be compared?

[firstmode]

Here is an example of Catholics who are under the Pope and approved by the Pope and their Bishop of thier activities in my area:

chicagorenewal.org/prayer-group.php

Charismatic Prayer Groups

Charismatic Prayer Groups are faith communities consisting of individuals who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit, who strongly desire to keep the experience of Pentecost alive through the exercise of their charismatic gifts, and who earnestly desire to become strong disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Catholic Charismatic Prayer groups affiliated with the CCRCC are under the spiritual direction of the bishop in their diocese, and in full accord with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

The leadership and format style for individual groups varies according to the needs of each particular group. The format usually includes: a significant time for praise and worship, the presence of charismatic gifts (tongues, prophecy, healing prayer), spiritual teachings, witnessing to the favors of the Lord, and intercessory prayer.

There are approximately 100 Catholic Charismatic Prayer Groups of various ethnic backgrounds located throughout the Chicagoland area. For information about a group near you, call the CCRCC office at 708-209-1199.

nsc-chariscenter.org/
http://www.nsc-chariscenter.org/images/header.gif

About Catholic Charismatic Renewal

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal as it exists today is the outgrowth from a retreat held in February 1967 of several faculty members and students from Duquesne University. Many of the students - though not all - experienced a movement of God’s Spirit called being “baptized in the Holy Spirit.” The professors had previously been “baptized in the Spirit” a week or two before. God’s action was also prepared for in a very human way by the students’ prayerful preparation in reading the Acts of the Apostles and a book entitled The Cross and the Switchblade.

What happened quickly spread to graduate students and professors at the University of Notre Dame and others serving in campus ministry in Lansing, Michigan. It continued to spread so that, as of this date, the **Catholic Charismatic Renewal exists in over 238 countries in the world, having touched over 100 million Catholics in its nearly 40-year existence. **

We recommend An Introduction to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal by John and Therese Boucher published by Servant Publications [Servant Publications recently sold its Catholic Charismatic section to St. Anthony Messenger Press] and also available from LaSalle Company (formerly Charismatic Renewal Services).

In 1975 Pope Paul VI greeted ten thousand Catholic charismatics from all over the world at the ninth international conference of the Renewal, “The Church and the world need more than ever that ‘the miracle of Pentecost should continue in history’ . . . How could this ‘spiritual renewal’ not be ‘good fortune’ for the Church and the world?” [others have translated “good fortune” as “a chance”]

Pope John Paul II has been an enthusiastic supporter of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. In 1979 soon after becoming Pope he said, “I am convinced that this movement is a sign of the Spirit’s action . . . a very important component in the total renewal of the Church.” He has met with the international leaders of the Renewal on a number of occasions, and regularly sends greetings to National and International Conferences on the Renewal.

As early as 1969, only two years after the Renewal started, the U.S. Bishops investigated the fledgling movement and the Committee on Doctrine wrote that “theologically the movement has legitimate reasons of existence. It has a strong biblical basis. It would be difficult to inhibit the working of the Spirit which manifested itself so abundantly in the early Church.”

 

[firstmode]

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Sober Intoxication of the Spirit: Filled With the Fullness of God (Paperback)
~ Raniero Cantalamessa
Raniero Cantalamessa (Author)
(Author) “In 1975, the day after Pentecost, at the close of the World Congress of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, Pope Paul VI delivered an address to…”

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[firstmode]

The Didache (written between 80 A.D. and 110 A.D.) - Chapter 11. Concerning Teachers, Apostles, and Prophets. - “And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven. But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known.”

The Didache (written between 80 A.D. and 110 A.D.) Chapter 11. Concerning Teachers, Apostles, and Prophets. - “And every prophet, proved true, working unto the mystery of the Church in the world, yet not teaching others to do what he himself does, shall not be judged among you, for with God he has his judgment; for so did also the ancient prophets. But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others’ sake who are in need, let no one judge him.”

Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp 98 to 108 AD - “9. For this reason you are composed of flesh and spirit, so that you may modify those things that appear before your face.10. And as for those that are not seen, pray to God that he would reveal them to you, so that you may be lacking in nothing, but may abound in every gift.”

Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians 7:1 98 to 108 AD - “For even though certain persons desired to deceive me after the flesh, yet the spirit is not deceived, being from God; for it knoweth whence it cometh and where it goeth, and it searcheth out the hidden things. I cried out, when I was among you; I spake with a loud voice, with God’s own voice, Give ye heed to the bishop and the presbytery and deacons. 7:2 Howbeit there were those who suspected me of saying this, because I knew beforehand of the division of certain persons. But He in whom I am bound is my witness that I learned it not from flesh of man; it was the preaching of the Spirit who spake on this wise; Do nothing without the bishop; keep your flesh as a temple of God; cherish union; shun divisions; be imitators of Jesus Christ, as He Himself also was of His Father.”

Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans 7: 98 to 108 AD - “For though I am alive while I write to you, yet I am eager to die. My love has been crucified, and there is no fire in me desiring to be fed; but there is within me a water that liveth and speaketh, saying to me inwardly, Come to the Father.”

Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians 5: 98 to 108 AD - "Am I not able to write to you of heavenly things? But I fear to do so, lest I should inflict injury on you who are but babes [in Christ]. Pardon me in this respect, lest, as not being able to receive [such doctrines], ye should be strangled by them. For even I, though I am bound [for Christ], yet am not on that account able to understand heavenly things, and the places of the angels, and their gatherings under their respective princes, things visible and invisible. Without reference to such abstruse subjects, I am still but a learner [in other respects]; for many things are wanting to us, that we come not short of God.

The Shepherd of Hermas (A.D. 110) Mandate 11 - "1[43]:5 For no Spirit given of God needeth to be consulted; but, having the power of deity, speaketh all things of itself, because it is from above, even from the power of the divine Spirit.1[43]:7 “How then, Sir,” say I, “shall a man know who of them is a prophet, and who a false prophet?” “Hear,” saith he, “concerning both the prophets; and, as I shall tell thee, so shalt thou test the prophet and the false prophet. By his life test the man that hath the divine Spirit.1[43]:8 In the first place, he that hath the [divine] Spirit, which is from above, is gentle and tranquil and humble-minded, and abstaineth from all wickedness and vain desire of this present world, and holdeth himself inferior to all men, and giveth no answer to any man when enquired of, nor speaketh in solitude (for neither doth the Holy Spirit speak when a man wisheth Him to speak); but the man speaketh then when God wisheth him to speak.1[43]:9 When then the man who hath the divine Spirit cometh into an assembly of righteous men, who have faith in a divine Spirit, and intercession is made to God by the gathering of those men, then the angel of the prophetic spirit, who is attached to him, filleth the man, and the man, being filled with the Holy Spirit, speaketh to the multitude, according as the Lord willeth.1[43]:10 In this way then the Spirit of the deity shall be manifest. This then is the greatness of the power as touching the Spirit of the deity of the Lord. 1[43]:16 I have given thee the life of both kinds of prophets. Therefore test, by his life and his works, the man who says that he is moved by the Spirit. 1[43]:17 But do thou trust the Spirit that cometh from God, and hath power; but in the earthly and empty spirit put no trust at all; for in it there is no power, for it cometh from the devil.1[43]:20 Now take the power which cometh from above. The hail is a very, small grain, and yet, when it falleth on a man’s head, what pain it causeth! Or again, take a drop which falls on the ground from the tiles, and bores through the stone. 1[43]:21 Thou seest then that the smallest things from above falling on the earth have great power. So likewise the divine Spirit coming from above is powerful. This Spirit therefore trust, but from the other hold aloof.”

 

[firstmode]

Irenaeus - Against Heresies (Book II, Chapter 32) 180AD - “Wherefore, also, those who are in truth His disciples, receiving grace from Him, do in His name perform [miracles], so as to promote the welfare of other men, according to the gift which each one has received from Him. For some do certainly and truly drive out devils, so that those who have thus been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe [in Christ], and join themselves to the Church. Others have foreknowledge of things to come: they see visions, and utter prophetic expressions. Others still, heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and they are made whole. Yea, moreover, as I have said, the dead even have been raised up, and remained among us for many years. And what shall I more say? It is not possible to name the number of the gifts which the Church, [scattered] throughout the whole world, has received from God, in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and which she exerts day by day for the benefit of the Gentiles, neither practising deception upon any, nor taking any reward Acts 8:9, 18 from them [on account of such miraculous interpositions]. For as she has received freely Matthew 10:8 from God, freely also does she minister [to others].”

Irenaeus - Against Heresies (Book II, Chapter 32) - “5. Nor does she perform anything by means of angelic invocations, or by incantations, or by any other wicked curious art; but, directing her prayers to the Lord, who made all things, in a pure, sincere, and straightforward spirit, and calling upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, she has been accustomed to work miracles for the advantage of mankind, and not to lead them into error. If, therefore, the name of our Lord Jesus Christ even now confers benefits [upon men], and cures thoroughly and effectively all who anywhere believe in Him…”

Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:6:1 - “In like manner we do also hear many brethren in the church, who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light for the general benefit the hidden things of men, and declare the mysteries of God.”

Irenaeus Against Heresies, Book II, 32:4 (190 A.D.) - “For some (Christians do certainly and truly drive out devils, so that those who have thus been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe and join themselves to the church.” DELIVERANCE is also implied to be done by Christians in Book II, 31:2.

Justin Martyr, Second Apology, Ch. 8 (153 A.D.) - This apology was addressed to the Roman Senate. “And they (demons), having been shut up in eternal fire, shall suffer their just punishment and penalty. For if they are even now overthrown by men through the Name of Jesus Christ, this is an intimation of the punishment in eternal fire which is to be inflicted on themselves and those who serve them.”

Justin Martyr, Second Apology, Ch. 6 - “And now you (Roman Senate) can learn this from what is under your own observation. For numberless demoniacs throughout the whole world, and in your city, many of our Christian men exorcising them in the Name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, have healed and do heal, rendering helpless and driving the demons out of men, though they could not be cured by all the other exorcists, and those who used incantations and drugs.”

Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew, Ch. 30 (150 A.D.) - “For we call Him (Jesus) Helper and Redeemer, the power of whose name even the demons do fear; and at this day, when they are exorcised in the Name of Jesus Christ, they are overcome.”

Dialogue With Trypho, Ch. 76 - “And now we, who believe on our Lord Jesus, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, when we exorcise all demons and evil spirits, have them subjected to us.”

Dialogue With Trypho, Ch. 85 - “For every demon, when exorcised in the Name of this very Son of God…is overcome and subdued. But though you exorcise any demon in the name of any of those who were amongst you–either kings, righteous men, or prophets or patriarchs–it will not be subject to you. Now assuredly your (Jewish) exorcists, I have said, make use of this craft when they exorcise, even as the Gentiles do, and employ fumigations and incantations.”

Tatian, Address of Tatian to the Greeks, Ch. 16 (160 A.D.) - "Sometimes they themselves (demons) disturb the habit of the body by a tempest of folly; but, being smitten by the Word of God, they depart in terror, and the sick man is healed.

 

[firstmode]

Theophilus, Theophilus to Autolycus, Book II. 8 (160-180 A.D.) - Theophilus is refuting the false teachings of Homer and Hesiod who were famous Greek poets. “…And this clearly appears from the fact, that even to this day the demonized are sometimes exorcised in the Name of the living and true God and these spirits of error themselves confess that they are demons who also formerly inspired these writers (Homer and Hesiod).”

Tertullian, Apology, Ch. 23 (197 A.D.) - “Let a person be brought before your tribunals; who is plainly under demonic possession. The wicked spirit, BIDDEN TO SPEAK by a follower of Christ, will as readily make the truthful confession that he is a demon, as elsewhere he has falsely asserted that he is a god.”

Tertullian, Apology, Ch. 37 - “Who would save you (Roman Rulers), I mean, from the attacks of those spirits of evil, which without reward or hire we (Christians) exorcise?”

Tertullian, To Scapula, Ch. 4 - “The clerk of one of the courts who was liable to be thrown upon the ground by an evil spirit, was set free from his affliction (by Christians); as was also the relative of another, and the little boy of a third. How many men of rank (to say nothing of common people) have been DELIVERED from demons, and healed of diseases?”

Minucius Felix, The Octavious of Minucius Felix (210 A.D.) - “A great many, even some of your own people, know all those things that the demons themselves confess concerning themselves, as often as they are driven by us (Christians) from bodies by the torments of our words and by the fires of our prayer.” (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. IV, p. 190).

Origen, Against Celsus, Book I, 46 (230-254) A.D.) - “And there are still preserved among Christians traces of that Holy Spirit which appeared in the form of a dove. The Christians expel evil spirits, and perform many cures, and foresee certain events, according to the will of the Logos.”

Against Celsus, Book I, 67 - “And the Name of Jesus can still remove distractions from the minds of men, and expel demons, and also take away diseases and produce a complete change of character…”

Lactentius, The Divine Institutes, Book II, 16 (250-320 A.D.) - “But they (demons) fear the righteous, that is, the worshipers of God, adjured by whose name they depart from the bodies (of people); for being lashed by the Christians’ words, they not only confess to be demons, but even utter their own names.”

Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecturer, 16:12 (350-375 A.D.) - “For He (Holy Spirit) employs the tongue of one man for wisdom; the soul of another He enlightens by prophecy, to another He gives power to drive away demons…”

The Divine Institutes, Book V, 22 - “For these (demons), as long as there is peace among the people of God, flee from the righteous, and fear them; and when they seize upon the bodies of men, and house their souls, they are adjured by the Christians, and at the Name of the true God are put to flight. For when the demons hear of this name they tremble, cry out, and assert that they are branded and beaten; and being asked who they are, whence they are come, and how they have insinuated themselves INTO a man, confess it. Thus, being tortured and excruciated by the power of the Divine Name, they come out of the man.”

 

[tweetymom]

oh oki thanks for the clarification.

I don’t think the Pentecostal church has headquarters… or any leadership like bishops etc… each church sort of governs itself. It’s very evangelical Protestant.

there are many Pentecostals out there, I think more than charismatic Catholics; it’s a pretty big denomination

who has committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?

You are wrong The Assembly Of God’s headquarters are in Springfield Missouri, And they have leadership they do not govern themselves. They have A General Supertendent.Assocate Supererentent, Presbters and a whole list of other offices.

 

[firstmode]

Their are many charismatic/pentecostal denominations.

Church of God (Cleveland, TN), Church of God of Prophecy, Pentecostal Church of God, Vineyard, Assemblies of God, 4 Square Church, etc.

They all have different types of church governance and they all believe that they are part of the universal body of Christ that encompasses all believers.

There are Christian groups out there that lend themselves to being the unique body of Christ. One Pentecostal group is the United Pentecostal Church International which believes you must be water baptized and Spirit baptized with the initial sign being speaking in tongues to be saved.

Much like how the Church of Christ is who also believes you must be baptized to be saved, but believe the gifts of the spirit ceased at the end of the apostles no matter how many early church fathers you quote about the gifts being alive and used for hundreds of years after John’s death…