Can my parish's musicians play Iron Maiden, Twisted Sister, or Megadeth as liturgical music for Mass?

[brotherhrolf]

Another sacred piece that is no longer appropriate for me personally is Just a Closer Walk with Thee. I wasn’t familiar with the song before seeing Peter Jackson’s tragic film Heavenly Creatures.

This is a beloved hymn played here in New Orleans in jazz funerals as a dirge when the body leaves church and is brought to the cemetery. It has never been sung in church as part of the Mass. There is even a “Just a Closer Walk” ministry on TV here in my diocese.

I guess that’s part of which “gets me” about all of this multi-cultural stuff. My eighth grade classroom was located in the school of an historically African American parish in New Orleans. There was a funeral hall across the street. When there was a jazz funeral (I saw several) we boys were allowed to line the fence of the school yard to pray for the deceased and to experience our culture.

The body was brought in silence into the church. The Mass and music inside the church was standard pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic despite that this was an African-American parish. The brass band awaited the body outside church and as they left for the cemetery, they played “Just a Closer Walk”. We boys would make the sign of the cross as the body passed. An hour or so later the procession would come back to the funeral parlor playing lively jazz music and the “second line” dancers would be dancing away.

If I’m anything, I’m Irish. I was raised with the thought that the Irish mourn when a babe is brought into this vale of tears but rejoice when the soul goes on. This African-American expression resonates with me as I am sure that the Brothers who taught me wanted me to see and hear.

But it wasn’t done in Mass.

 

[Lepanto]

We must be careful with Protestant P&W music to ensure that the lyrics conform to Catholic teaching.

Then Protestant P&W music is acceptable so long as the lyrics conform to Catholic teaching?

If yes, then why wouldn’t we be able to have music from Protestant heavy metal bands like Stryper, Barren Cross, or Holy Soldier so long as the lyrics conform to Catholic teaching?

If not, wouldn’t that be a double-standard?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_metal

 

[brockmac]

Perhaps the reason for this is because most of the time documents are thrown out there by cherry pickers.

I’ve seen far too often documents being countered with other documents that prove the poster wrong. So your right, it doesn’t carry a great deal of weight with me.

I tried hard not to "cherry pick, and even included parts of the document that support the use of Chant, even though I am of the belief that other forms of music can be appropriate as well.

I understand and respect BG’s opinion. I agree that a solemn liturgy with chant being performed by a trained choir can be an awsome thing. And to be honest, I can’t imagine a TLM with any other kind of music. However I think that with the OF of the Mass, some other forms of music can be a beautiful addition, and Church documents support their use, unless of course you discount anything coming from Vatican II.

 

[anamchara]

I tried hard not to "cherry pick, and even included parts of the document that support the use of Chant, even though I am of the belief that other forms of music can be appropriate as well.

I understand and respect BG’s opinion. I agree that a solemn liturgy with chant being performed by a trained choir can be an awsome thing. And to be honest, I can’t imagine a TLM with any other kind of music. However I think that with the OF of the Mass, some other forms of music can be a beautiful addition, and Church documents support their use, unless of course you discount anything coming from Vatican II.

I am actually in support of spiritual music, guitar/folk music. I love it. I also love much of what comes out of OCP. My husband plays the guitar in Mass and sings. I have my favorites and not so favorites. I grew up with it. My heart and soul is with Christ and the Mass when the music is played. I also love the organ and traditional hymns like many we sang in the Presbyterian Church. I don’t mind chant on occasion but would not want it every Sunday.

But that is not what this thread is about. I’m not sure what the OP is trying to get at here.

 

[georgehparker]

Cultural associations and lyrical content have so little bearing on the issue that, at best, they only serve as arguments in afterthought. The real issue is aesthetics; taste and propriety are no less subjects for rational analysis than ethics, because the manner in which something is said is every bit as significant as what is said. Who would deny it? Humble gratitude sounds different than romantic pining; awe and mystery have a distinctive tonal quality that can’t be mistaken for congratulatory zeal. Inappropriate music delivers messages that confuse and obscure the full meaning of true Christian worship. Protestant P&W misses by a long shot on this score, as does so much of what so many Catholics endure on a regular basis in their own parishes. There is a right not only to beauty but to an aesthetic that conveys the sublime depth of the mystery of Divine Grace.

 

[benedictgal]

Cultural associations and lyrical content have so little bearing on the issue that, at best, they only serve as arguments in afterthought. The real issue is aesthetics; taste and propriety are no less subjects for rational analysis than ethics, because the manner in which something is said is every bit as significant as what is said. Who would deny it? Humble gratitude sounds different than romantic pining; awe and mystery have a distinctive tonal quality that can’t be mistaken for congratulatory zeal. Inappropriate music delivers messages that confuse and obscure the full meaning of true Christian worship. Protestant P&W misses by a long shot on this score, as does so much of what so many Catholics endure on a regular basis in their own parishes. There is a right not only to beauty but to an aesthetic that conveys the sublime depth of the mystery of Divine Grace.

That is so very true. I am also reminded of what the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger wrote, especially when he makes comparision to the music of the ancient Greek cultic worship of Apollo (reason) as opposed to that of Dionysis (debauchery and free form):

On the one hand, there is the music that Plato ascribes, in line with mythology, to Apollo, the god of light and reason. This is the music that draws senses into spirit and so brings man to wholeness. It does not abolish the senses, but inserts them into the unity of this creature that is man. It elevates the spirit precisely by wedding it to the senses, and it elevates the senses by uniting them with the spirit. Thus this kind of music is an expression of man’s special place in the general structure of being. But then there is the music that Plato ascribes to Marsyas, which we might describe, in terms of cultic history, as “Dionysian”. It drags man into the intoxication of the senses, crushes rationality, and subjects the spirit to the senses. The way Plato (and more moderately, Aristotle) allots instruments and keys to one or other of these two kinds of music is now obsolete and may in many respects surprise us. But the Apollonian/Dionysian alternative runs through the whole history of religion and confronts us again today. Not every kind of music can have a place in Christian worship. It has its standards, and that standard is the Logos. If we want to know whom we are dealing with, the Holy Spirit or the unholy spirit, we have to remember that it is the Holy Spirit who moves us to say, “Jesus is Lord” (I Cor 12:3). The Holy Spirit leads us to the Logos, and He leads us to a music that serves the Logos as a sign of the sursum corda, the lifting up of the human heart. Does it integrate man by drawing him to what is above, or does it cause his disintegration into formless intoxication or mere sensuality? That is the criterion for a music in harmony with logos, a form of that logike latreia (reasonable, logos-worthy worship) of which we spoke in the first part of this book.

Earlier, the Holy Father makes this comparision, which, I believe, is actually quite releent to the issue of the Protestant Praise and Worship Music that has somehow infiltrated the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass:

On the one hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus). It is aimed at the phenomenon of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as a cult of the banal. "Rock", on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments.

Therefore, I think Pope Benedict has given the answer: certainly no Megadeth, Iron Maiden or even U2 should be allowed into the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass even if the lyrics were doctrinally correct. Lyrics and score need to go hand in hand. While the Protestant-style P & W may have biblically based worship, the kind of musical score used for it is more the banal.

Perhaps what proponents of the P & W genre don’t rearlize is that the while Protestant ecclesial communities only have the Word, we have both Word and Sacrifice. Since the only focus these Protestant ecclesial communities have is the Word, then, their music is more performance. The Mass is something much more sublime. Sacred mysteires are unfolding before our very eyes and these transcend songs that could very well have come from the local secular pop station.

 

[Digitonomy]

Cultural associations and lyrical content have so little bearing on the issue that, at best, they only serve as arguments in afterthought…Humble gratitude sounds different than romantic pining; awe and mystery have a distinctive tonal quality that can’t be mistaken for congratulatory zeal. Inappropriate music delivers messages that confuse and obscure the full meaning of true Christian worship.

However, every composer will have a different response to different parts of the mass, and likewise different occasions may benefit from different “emotional” responses, if I can use that word to describe the different qualities you’re describing. Because it’s very difficult to categorize precisely the emotional tone of a piece of music, it will also be very difficult to define the boundaries of what is acceptable on the basis you propose.

Furthermore, it doesn’t really exclude heavy metal. If I find a very similar emotional tone in say parts of Bach’s Christ lag in Todesbanden as in a slower Metallica piece, does that mean Metallica is acceptable? I don’t think so - but the reason is closer to the cultural associations and lyrical content rather than your explanation.

 

[Lepanto]

Do you want heavy metal being used in a Mass? I’m not sure where you are going with this thread.

No, of course I don’t want heavy metal used in the Mass (nor Latino pop, P&W, polka, rap, etc.).

I’m merely using heavy metal to argue reductio ad absurdum against all of the other non-sacred forms of music which have infested our liturgies.

In other words, the same reason that heavy metal is inappropriate for Catholic liturgy is the same reason that Protestant-style P&W is inappropriate. There is no difference, regardless of what the Oregon Catholic Press empire tries to force upon us.

If it can be argued that P&W is acceptable for Mass, then heavy metal would also be acceptable, and for the same reasons.

 

[crm114]

To quote the great former president Richard Nixon, “We could do that… but it would be wrong.”