Can my parish's musicians play Iron Maiden, Twisted Sister, or Megadeth as liturgical music for Mass?

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Sarabande said:
From that first post, to me it appeared that the OP asked a legitimate question about how far you can go with various music genres and still have it considered as in “accord with the spirit of the liturgical action”. To me, OP wanted a discussion on this using an extreme and a bit of humour by giving example of groups like Mega Death and Iron Maiden.
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You are very perceptive, Sarabande. My question is serious, but in a humorous way.

Up the Irons! 👍
 
You know, after the DC Mass, I really am starting to believe that some would argue that literally any kind of music is appropriate for liturgical use.
 
In my opinion Mass is not the right time or place for any form of rock or pop music in general, much less Heavy Metal.

I’m quite certain many who frequent these forums consider the very musical form as played by said bands originates from Satan himself. Although I don’t agree Heavy Metal itself is in essence satanic, it certainly is NOT condusive to prayer or uplifting the heart toward God.
 
Hey! Why not appropriate pop culture to reach people where they’re at? “Girls Gone Wild–for Jesus!” I mean, why not if you print icons and the Holy Name all over their t-shirts and bikinis? It could even be a habit for a new religious order, right? Wrong!

Secular music has no place in liturgy regardless of the words. There is a difference! Arguments to the contrary are an example of “the dictatorship of relativism”. The aesthetics of true worship aside, taste is no more a relative matter than moral judgement. Stand up, people!
 
Lepanto said:
You know, after the DC Mass, I really am starting to believe that some would argue that literally any kind of music is appropriate for liturgical use.
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You are certainly right about that. When I heard the music, it sounded like something that the local Latino hits station was going to play. In fact, one of the songs sounded a little bit like something Mana would preform.

I was watching a Duran Duran concert. Simon was sining something from their new album, “Falling Down”. It was a rather deep song (I feel I’m falling down; with no one standing round, is there someone to help me) about despair. As deep a song as it is, I certainly wouldn’t want it used at Mass, nor would anything ty U2 be considered fitting for worship.
 
The purpose of the Liturgy is two-fold. First it is to honor, and worship God. Second it is to draw us into closer communion with Him.

Some people believe that only accopela Gregorian Chant serves this purpose. Some believe that the Chant may be accompanied by an organ. And while I agree that Chant, with or without an organ can be beautiful and inspiring, it is not the only form of music that can lift ones mind and heart to Christ.

There are actually quite a few contemporary songs that can lift ones thoughts to the Lord and give Him glory. Psalm 150 (quoted below) even says to “praise him with crashing cymbals.”

Now I will agree that even if the lyrics are profoundly spritual, heavy metal music does not lend itself to the liturgy (and I like heavy metal music), but some other contemporary music may well be helpful to some people. If it is not for you, than just don’t go to a Mass where you know it will be played.
1 1 Hallelujah! 2 Praise God in his holy sanctuary; give praise in the mighty dome of heaven. 2 Give praise for his mighty deeds, praise him for his great majesty. 3 **Give praise with blasts upon the horn, praise him with harp and lyre. **4 Give praise with tambourines and dance, praise him with flutes and strings. 5 Give praise with crashing cymbals, praise him with sounding cymbals. 6 Let everything that has breath give praise to the LORD! Hallelujah
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brockmac said:
The purpose of the Liturgy is two-fold. First it is to honor, and worship God. Second it is to draw us into closer communion with Him.

Some people believe that only accopela Gregorian Chant serves this purpose. Some believe that the Chant may be accompanied by an organ. And while I agree that Chant, with or without an organ can be beautiful and inspiring, it is not the only form of music that can lift ones mind and heart to Christ.

There are actually quite a few contemporary songs that can lift ones thoughts to the Lord and give Him glory. Psalm 150 (quoted below) even says to “praise him with crashing cymbals.”

Now I will agree that even if the lyrics are profoundly spritual, heavy metal music does not lend itself to the liturgy (and I like heavy metal music), but some other contemporary music may well be helpful to some people. If it is not for you, than just don’t go to a Mass where you know it will be played.
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However, you are forgetting something very important. The Church has documents regarding Sacred Music. We are also blessed to have a Supreme Pontiff who is a classically-trained musician (his brother is also a renowned (retired) choirmaster) who has written volumes about the liturgy, including this piece from Sacramentum Caritatis:
Liturgical song
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  1. In the ars celebrandi, liturgical song has a pre-eminent place. (126) Saint Augustine rightly says in a famous sermon that “the new man sings a new song. Singing is an expression of joy and, if we consider the matter, an expression of love” (127). The People of God assembled for the liturgy sings the praises of God. In the course of her two-thousand-year history, the Church has created, and still creates, music and songs which represent a rich patrimony of faith and love. This heritage must not be lost. ***Certainly as far as the liturgy is concerned, we cannot say that one song is as good as another. Generic improvisation or the introduction of musical genres which fail to respect the meaning of the liturgy should be avoided. As an element of the liturgy, song should be well integrated into the overall celebration (128). Consequently everything – texts, music, execution – ought to correspond to the meaning of the mystery being celebrated, the structure of the rite and the liturgical seasons (129). ***Finally, while respecting various styles and different and highly praiseworthy traditions, I desire, in accordance with the request advanced by the Synod Fathers, that Gregorian chant be suitably esteemed and employed (130) as the chant proper to the Roman liturgy (131).
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If we irgnor this, then we’ve lost the whole point.
 
VociMike said:
And citations from Church documents to back up a “no” answer would be most appreciated.
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From what we’ve seen in this and other liturgy-related threads, citing magisterial documents has no weight with some people.

Therefore, if the answer to the original question is “no,” it will have to be for other reasons. But what are they?
 
Lepanto said:
From what we’ve seen in this and other liturgy-related threads, citing magisterial documents has no weight with some people.

Therefore, if the answer to the original question is “no,” it will have to be for other reasons. But what are they?
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Tell me about it.:banghead: It reminds me of something our late Gov. Ann W. Richards once said regarding the lottery, I think, or some other proposal up before the Texas Legislature. Here’s the paraphrase:
Even if God, Himself, in a fiery cloud, would bring this document and present it in the hands of angels and amidst trumpet blasts, yall still wouldn’t buy it.
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While I didn’t much care for Ann’s politics, I have to admit, she did come up with some good and memorable sound bites.

I’m sure that there are some who will say that documents issued by the Holy See are only suggestions and that the Holy Father, in Sacramentum Caritatis, is just giving us his own personal opinion. Go figure.
 
Well, I am just devastated. Evidently it’s OK to be multi-cultural if you’re Hispanic but not if you’re French. Hey we speak French down here. Doesn’t that count? C’mon folks!

All sarcasm aside, my example of Cajun music is right on the mark. I have yet to hear any liturgical music based upon Cajun music and I can hear Cajun music on the radio and at every festival thrown around here. Why do we bring salsa, polka, rock and folk rhythms into our sacred liturgies? Keep the dance hall in the dance hall.

Forty years ago a terrible tide was let loose upon us. Why not Iron Maiden or Twisted Sister? Simon and Garfunkle were OK for my high school graduation Mass in 69…it started that long ago.

The HF has made some very specific comments about music and the liturgy and was ignored in DC. We need to reclaim our universal musical heritage.
 
While I will certainly not dispute the beauty, history and tradition that surround the use of Gregorian Chant in the Sacred Liturgies, I do believe that other forms of music can be appropriate. I do think it is important that the lyrics be orthodox, appropriate to the season and reverent. I also agree that certain musical styles, while they might be ok for a youth gathering, are not necessarily ideal to the end of bringing people’s hearts and minds into the liturgy (heavy metal and rap come to mind).

The following citations from *Sacrosanctum Concilium *help to make the case that forms of music other than Gregorian Chant can be used and be appropriate parts of the Liturgy. I have included some quotes pertaining to the active participation of the people because I believe that people are more likely to be able to actively participate in the liturgical music if it is in their native language and in a style with which they are familiar. Not everyone in the pew is going to be a classically trained musician as our Holy Father is.
  1. To promote active participation, the people should be encouraged to take part by means of acclamations, responses, psalmody, antiphons, and songs, as well as by actions, gestures, and bodily attitudes. And at the proper times all should observe a reverent silence.
  2. The treasure of sacred music is to be preserved and fostered with great care. Choirs must be diligently promoted, especially in cathedral churches; but bishops and other pastors of souls must be at pains to ensure that, whenever the sacred action is to be celebrated with song, the whole body of the faithful may be able to contribute that active participation which is rightly theirs, as laid down in Art. 28 and 30.
  3. The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.
    But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action, as laid down in Art. 30.
118. Religious singing by the people is to be intelligently fostered so that in devotions and sacred exercises, as also during liturgical services, the voices of the faithful may ring out according to the norms and requirements of the rubrics.
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Windmill said:
Megadeath is a secular group, their music has a secular connotation, and their songs are not liturgical or meant for that type of forum. Regardless of one’s intentions, Megadeath is inappropriate for the Mass by its very nature.
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To the extent that the music in question has a secular origin, that could disqualify it as inappropriate for sacred use. However, stating that music from a secular source is automatically disqualified is a weak argument. I’m not a musical expert, but I believe there are some hymns that originally had a secular purpose/content. Since we don’t associate these religious hymns with their original connotations, there’s no problem.

There could also be the opposite occurrence; a sacred piece could be adapted as the theme for a very popular movie, television show, or commercial completely inappropriate for any association with the mass. It’s predominant connotation in a culture could thus render it inappropriate for use in mass.

An example of the former was Wagner’s Wedding March. Unless one is enough of an opera fan to know it’s origin, it’s likely to simply connote matrimony. As its origin has become more widely known, there is more cause for scandal and more likelihood of inappropriate associations with the music for those attending the event, so it’s been prohibited in a number of places.

I believe a frequent replacement piece is Mouret’s Rondeau, which always conjures in my mind Masterpiece Theater rather than the Sacrament of Matrimony. Another sacred piece that is no longer appropriate for me personally is Just a Closer Walk with Thee. I wasn’t familiar with the song before seeing Peter Jackson’s tragic film Heavenly Creatures.

So a piece’s secular or sacred origin is only relevant if that origin is understood and retained by the culture in which the mass takes place. In the case of Megadeth in the US, the answer’s obvious.
 
brockmac said:
I also agree that certain musical styles, while they might be ok for a youth gathering, are not necessarily ideal to the end of bringing people’s hearts and minds into the liturgy (heavy metal and rap come to mind).
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Why can’t headbangers :banghead: have their own music too?

If we can have Latino pop, Protestant “Praise & Worship,” African folk music, polka, etc…what is intrinscially non-liturgical about heavy metal riffs?

Again I ask, why not heavy metal with liturgically-correct lyrics?
 
Lepanto said:
**From what we’ve seen in this and other liturgy-related threads, citing magisterial documents has no weight with some people. **

Therefore, if the answer to the original question is “no,” it will have to be for other reasons. But what are they?
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Perhaps the reason for this is because most of the time documents are thrown out there by cherry pickers. 🤷

I’ve seen far too often documents being countered with other documents that prove the poster wrong. So your right, it doesn’t carry a great deal of weight with me.
 
anamchara said:
Perhaps the reason for this is because most of the time documents are thrown out there by cherry pickers. 🤷

I’ve seen far too often documents being countered with other documents that prove the poster wrong. So your right, it doesn’t carry a great deal of weight with me.
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I am reasonably familiar with the pertinent documents. (We all should be, as BenedictGal has posted them on this forum countless times.) I also did a computerized search in them for “heavy metal” and found no stated prohibitions.

Therefore, as a form of inculturation, we must conclude that it’s acceptable to have heavy metal music at Mass. 👍
 
Lepanto said:
Why can’t headbangers :banghead: have their own music too?

If we can have Latino pop, Protestant “Praise & Worship,” African folk music, polka, etc…what is intrinscially non-liturgical about heavy metal riffs?

Again I ask, why not heavy metal with liturgically-correct lyrics?
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Hey, I like heavy metal music too. But I believe the answer to your question is in Art. 116 where it says “**so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action, as laid down in Art. 30.” **

I don’t think that the driving beats of heavy metal music accord with the spirit of the liturgical action. Although, I am not the competent authority to make this determination in my (or any other) diocese.

Also I’m not sure about Latino Pop music, I don’t listen to it so I can’t comment. We must be careful with Protestant P&W music to ensure that the lyrics conform to Catholic teaching. Sancrosanctum Concilium directly addresses and encourages the use of local music in “mission lands.” But I can’t imagine polka in the liturgy.
 
Lepanto said:
Why can’t headbangers :banghead: have their own music too?

If we can have Latino pop, Protestant “Praise & Worship,” African folk music, polka, etc…what is intrinscially non-liturgical about heavy metal riffs?

Again I ask, why not heavy metal with liturgically-correct lyrics?
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I would say because our culture associates heavy metal with drugs and rebellious teens. Hardly a place in the Mass for such a thing, right? If that type of music was ever once associated with spiritual Christian beliefs then I suppose we would have it in our Churches.

I have nver heard Latino Pop or polka music in a Mass. But I know many Polish communities go back many generations in certain area’s of our country so this makes perfect sense. Can you give an example of Latino Pop being used in a Mass?

Praise and Worship music is very Christ centered and has had a long history of being spiritually lifting for many. So it makes sense to have that. You can’t compare that with Twisted Sister.

Do you want heavy metal being used in a Mass? I’m not sure where you are going with this thread. :confused:🤷
 
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