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believers
Guest
You’re going to have to back up your claims with the Word of God. You haven’t posted one scripture to prove your claim.
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B
believers
Guest
Did Jesus say not pray to satan?
J
jmcrae
Guest
What should I do, post the whole Bible? You have one (I assume) - just read it. The Sacraments are all there.
To make it simpler for you, get out your Strong’s Concordance, and look up all the passages that contain the words “baptism,” “baptize” and “baptizing.”
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believers
Guest
Baptism by Water - John Did
Baptism of Repentance - John Taught
Baptism of the Holy Ghost - Jesus DOES
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jmcrae
Guest
Red herring.
Are you committing a sin by writing messages on a message board? (“Praying to” distant people that you can’t actually see or hear?)
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jmcrae
Guest
Try again. This time, look at all of them.
PS: and include all references to water, too, since water is the symbol of baptism in the New Testament.
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believers
Guest
You are not committing a sin by writing messages.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.
Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things NOT SEEN.
Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
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believers
Guest
All baptisms after the death, burial, & resurrection of Jesus is referring to the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Not the putting away of filth of the flesh.
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LilyM
Guest
Jesus told the story of the beggar Lazarus and the rich man. When the beggar Lazarus died didn’t Jesus state that he went to be with Father Abraham? Don’t hear a mention of God the Father there. And didn’t the rich man who pray to ‘Father Abraham’? And wasn’t it Father Abraham who heard and answered him? No mention of God the Father in any of that episode.
By your logic, since Christ said and you obey, why aren’t you praying to Father Abraham?
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jmcrae
Guest
Yes. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is the pouring of water over the body, or else immersion in water (since “to baptize” is to cover in water), in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, as Christ tells the Apostles in Matthew 28:16-20.
Exactly. A person who is taking a bath is not “being baptized.”
The washing of an infant directly after birth to clean him is not “baptism” - it’s just a bath. The infant is baptized when water is poured over him or else he is immersed in water (since “to baptize” is to cover in water), in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Usually, the infant would be bathed before coming to the church to be baptized.
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MariaG
Guest
Once again, in the manner you mean, Catholics ONLY pray to God.
But again, the word “pray” has narrowed over the years by non-Catholic Christians to mean only communication and worship of God.
To Pray also means simply to ask. This is the older usage of the word pray.
Why must you continue to insist on continuing to insist on the word “pray” only be defined by your more modern definition instead of the broader and more historical usage Catholics have?
Why do you insist on not understanding that today when Catholics say “pray to” we mean ask?
Do you really think we are so decieved or so intent on decieving others that we would not admit to worshiping and praying to anyone other than God in the manner you keep insisting we do?
Please explain why asking a saint to pray for us is wrong?
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Lukelion
Guest
So the only prayer we can pray is the “Our Father”???
Isn’t that a “REPITITION”!?
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AlegreFe
Guest
But that is what Maria is saying. You pray to others to pray for you in the name of Jesus Christ.Maria, I know you believe God’s Word to be Truth. Jesus clearly tells us to ask anything in His name and it will be granted. Why would I pray to anyone else?.
I can never pray “for” a Saint as they have no need of my prayers. I am merely praying “to” them to ask them to pray for me. “Praying to” just means “talking to.”
For a Catholic to pray does not mean “to worship” as some Protestants might think we mean.
Think of it this way, I “talk to” my friends. I don’t normally say I “talk for” my friends when I am talking to them.
So as I pray, I pray to (talk to) the saints in asking them to pray for me.
Does that make it clearer for you?
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AlegreFe
Guest
But God DID say “Hail, full of Grace” and He sent His Angel Gabriel to greet Mary as such to tell her that she will be the Mother of His begotten Son.
Don’t you believe or do you even know that Jesus prayed many prayers that came right out of the Psalms. Many of the Christians back in “bible time” prayed directly from the Psalms.
If you only believe that Jesus meant for there to be only the prayer of “Our Father” and nothing else, then how do you pray? What do you say as your prayers? Do you repeat over and over again the “Our Father?”
The Angel was the one that said, “Hail, full of grace.” And the only reason why he said that was at the request of God. God is the one who calls Mary, “Full of Grace.” So if God can say it, and if the Angel can say it, then why can’t we? It is in the Bible just as all the Psalms are. Jesus prayed from the Psalms that are in the bible so why can’t we pray from scripture verses that are in the Bible? We pray the Magnificat. We pray “The Angelus” which is an ancient pray of the Church and comes straight from the bible.
Since Jesus prayed from the Bible, He did not intend for us to only pray the “Lord’s Prayer.”
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AlegreFe
Guest
I have NOT contradicted myself. You just don’t have the understanding that I have when it comes to baptism.
Baptism is a Sacrament which infuses Grace to the one who is being baptized. That Grace can only come from the Passion of Jesus Christ on the Cross. He shed His blood for many for the Forgiveness of sins. That is why we can be forgiven with Baptism. When someone is Baptized, they are Baptized in the name of the “Father, and of the Son & of the Holy Spirit.” So they are Baptized with the Holy Spirit.
There is another Sacrament called “Confirmation.” That Sacrament invokes the Holy Spirit. It kind of “energizes” what already happened at Baptizm.
[Confirmation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04215b.htm)A sacrament in which the Holy Ghost is given to those already baptized in order to make them strong and perfect Christians and soldiers of Jesus Christ.
Confirmation imparts
- an increase of sanctifying grace which makes the recipient a “perfect Christian”;
- a special sacramental grace consisting in the seven gifts of the Holy Ghost and notably in the strength and courage to confess boldly the name of Christ;
- an indelible character by reason of which the sacrament cannot be received again by the same person.
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LilyM
Guest
Not to split hairs, but the deceased and glorious Saints who are now in heaven don’t need us to pray for them. Those saints still on earth do. But we certainly need and should request as many of 'em as we can, alive or dead and in glory with Christ, to intercede for us.
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MariaG
Guest
The sacraments are frequently misunderstood by non-Sacramental Protestants.
They seem to think that we think the action or the water in and of itself somehow saves us. What they don’t realize is that we find that just as ridiculous as they do.
In baptism, the act of pouring the water does not save us. It is through God’s grace alone that we are saved. We are recieving that grace through baptism.
We see in scripture that Jesus frequently choose to heal people through physical actions. Like the blind man. He choose to heal the man by applying mud to his eyes.
God chooses to heal us (that would include our soul) through concrete actions.
The sacraments are really God’s miracles made visable.
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AlegreFe
Guest
Yes I understand that. But since these Protestants make it hard enough for themselves as it is, I dare not make it more confusing for them. :whacky: “Spliting hairs” is the last thing we need here. I find that some Catholics here like to play “devil’s advocate” when we are clearly trying to defend the Catholic Faith. Not that what you did here was that at all. But I just wanted to make it clear that sometimes when it comes to defending the Faith, sometimes playing “devil’s advocate” is not helpful, it only creates more argument a lot of the time and more explaining is needed.
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Exporter2
Guest
Can non-catholics explain what the Rosary focuses on?
They should be able to explain that.
To whom does the Virgin Mary lead us?.. Her Son Jesus, of course. Yes we ask Her to pray for us now and at the hour of our death, but she points us to Jesus.
Looking into the history of the Rosary as a teacher of CCD I found that back in the 1200s most people were illiterate and few books existed. But they were smart people, for they committed to memory many prayers and said the Angelus many times a day.
Dominic Guzman, St Dominic, inserted the Mysteries into their series of prayers first stating with stones in the pockets. He and his Dominicans evolved to beads on a string ( stones were heavy ha, ha)
If one said the Rosary of Dominic and contemplated on the Mysteries, that person would have thought about the Gospel almost in entirety. Dominic knew that after he moved on the people would have the ability to have a better knowledge of the Gospel. Dominic left the Gospel behind - mentally.
Of course we today know the first words that Mary spoke in the Bible was at the wedding of Canna. She pointed the servants to Jesus in saying,
o what (my Son) he says.
I was a K of C with gray hair before I realised the Rosary is ALL ABOUT JESUS. Our Lady points us to her Son, Jesus.
They should be able to explain that.
To whom does the Virgin Mary lead us?.. Her Son Jesus, of course. Yes we ask Her to pray for us now and at the hour of our death, but she points us to Jesus.
Looking into the history of the Rosary as a teacher of CCD I found that back in the 1200s most people were illiterate and few books existed. But they were smart people, for they committed to memory many prayers and said the Angelus many times a day.
Dominic Guzman, St Dominic, inserted the Mysteries into their series of prayers first stating with stones in the pockets. He and his Dominicans evolved to beads on a string ( stones were heavy ha, ha)
If one said the Rosary of Dominic and contemplated on the Mysteries, that person would have thought about the Gospel almost in entirety. Dominic knew that after he moved on the people would have the ability to have a better knowledge of the Gospel. Dominic left the Gospel behind - mentally.
Of course we today know the first words that Mary spoke in the Bible was at the wedding of Canna. She pointed the servants to Jesus in saying,
o what (my Son) he says.I was a K of C with gray hair before I realised the Rosary is ALL ABOUT JESUS. Our Lady points us to her Son, Jesus.
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IHS
Guest
I can never pray “for” a Saint as they have no need of my prayers. I am merely praying “to” them to ask them to pray for me. “Praying to” just means “talking to.”===============================================Saints are here on earth.These are the ones I,m refering to.
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