Can one be Catholic yet have some disagreements with the church

[Pathway2]

I have problems with how the Catholic church see Homosexuality as a sin as well as other LGBTQ+ topic, I feel that If it is a matter of love. It is okay given that being gay is being attracted to the same sex; it is not two straight men having sex with each over for pleasure alone and if this idea is true, then we a more than straight, we are pan-sexual. Anyway, Also that Transgender and non-binary, people shouldn’t be forced to conformed to the social ideas of gender, e.g that Transgender male must be really a women. This topic is also applied to the sanctity of Marriage.

In addition, we need to consider when it isn’t a sin to have an abortion, one question would be about saving the women’s life because of the Birth. Of course, abortion shouldn’t be used as a
easy contraceptive. However I also want it not to result an immediate excommunication.

Can you be a catholic but have these disagreements? After all this is not a serious as denying the existence of Christ?

 

[PetraG]

Can you be a catholic but have these disagreements? After all this is not a serious as denying the existence of Christ?

The Church is infallible when it comes to teaching faith and morals, but you seem to think that it is you who are infallible when it comes to faith and morals? Ir maybe what psychologists are currently saying is infallible, even though we know it is prone to constant revision?

Many Catholics accept what the Church teaches only with difficulty and over time, but one does need to have the basic attitude of being teachable or at least needs to want to have that attitude. There are many people who don’t think monogamy is realistic. Well, it is not what fallen human nature is inclined to keep, no. That does not mean it is morally debatable.

Would you really want to define your moral code based on what some people feel strongly inclined to do? You can’t just confine that to sexuality. It would apply to anger management, impulse control, and a host of other human attributes, too. As you advance in religious instruction, however, you will learn there is a difference between morality and culpability and between what is possible with grace or without it.

 

[1ke]

Can you be a catholic but have these disagreements?

You are always Catholic, if you are baptized Catholic or received into the Church.

The Church provides us with God’s truth. When we “disagree”, it is we who are wrong— not the Church. What you are called to do is study, learn, and come to believe through the use of your intellect.

Catholics must give assent of the faith to all doctrines and dogmas, which these are (excepting the canonical penalty associated with abortion, that is disciplinary). So no, you cannot “disagree”. You might struggle, you might not understand, but you may not dissent.

You are called to pray, study, and learn.

 

[Inbonum]

Have you read this https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/dignitas-personae-the-dignity-of-a-person-2064

I have problems with how the Catholic church see Homosexuality as a sin as well as other LGBTQ+ topic, I feel that If it is a matter of love.

You are not first who disagrees.
It IS matter of love, but Church’s teaching isn’t prohibitng love itself, Church is showing what real love is.

Can you be a catholic but have these disagreements? After all this is not a serious as denying the existence of Christ?

And yes it is big thing. You should try to understand these questions by researching them if you truly want to know truth, not reject it without studying it.

 

[edward_george1]

The best and most concise answer to this question I’ve ever seen.

-Fr ACEGC

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Not to derail the thread, Father, but I hope you had a Happy Patronal Feast Day yesterday. You have a powerful patron - the Holy Victorius Great-Martyr George. Keep slaying the spiritual dragons, Father!

 

[TheLittleLady]

Catholic church see Homosexuality as a sin

The Church teaches quite the opposite.

CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Sexual acts outside of a valid marriage are sinful, homo or hetro sexual.

Also that Transgender and non-binary, people shouldn’t be forced to conformed to the social ideas of gender, e.g that Transgender male must be really a women.

The Church teaches compassion and love. You may wish to learn more about how your Diocese ministers to the LBGTQ+ community.

one question would be about saving the women’s life because of the Birth.

When will an abortion save a woman’s life? What medical condition?

 

[Pathway2]

Thank you for this comment. I would like to ask if it is okay then for Members of LGBTQ+ to have the sacraments of marriage?

also when I mean medical conditions. It could be that Birth of the child who most likely put harm to the mother. and taking such a risk is suicidal.

 

[edward_george1]

Members of LGBTQ+ to have the sacraments of marriage?

Sure, people who are attracted to those of the same sex, those of both sexes, and who feel that they ought to be another sex than the one they were born with may receive the sacrament of matrimony.

They must marry someone of the opposite sex, and whatever attractions or inclinations they have must not hinder their ability to freely consent to the marriage.

Canon Law provides that the faithful have the right to seek the sacraments provided that they are properly disposed, not impeded by law, and request them in an opportune manner. So long as these conditions are met, anyone may receive the sacraments, including marriage.

 

[Pathway2]

They must marry someone of the opposite sex, and whatever attractions or inclinations they have must not hinder their ability to freely consent to the marriage.

I am confuse by this. Did you mean that: must they marry someone of the other sex, it must be base on their own reasoning that they could wilfully consent to the marriage?

 

[adamhovey1988]

. . . .

Anyway, Also that Transgender and non-binary, people shouldn’t be forced to conformed to the social ideas of gender

It’s a biological and theological fact (Genesis 1:27)

In addition, we need to consider when it isn’t a sin to have an abortion

Intentionally causing the death of another human being is never justified. Saving the life of the mother may cause the death of a child (yes, a child), but indirect killing is never permitted.

Can you be a catholic but have these disagreements?

One is Catholic by baptism, not agreeing with Church dogma. That said, you may want to rethink these positions.

After all this is not a serious as denying the existence of Christ?

The Church is the bride of Christ. If you don’t accept the bride, you don’t accept the groom.

 

[TheLittleLady]

put harm to the mother.

You are moving the goal posts. In your first post, you stated

one question would be about saving the women’s life because of the Birth.

Asking again, give me the name of a medical condition where this is the case, that an abortion, direct killing of the embryo/fetus, is required to save the life of the mother.

I would like to ask if it is okay then for Members of LGBTQ+ to have the sacraments of marriage?

For a valid marriage, the requirements are one male and one female who are both free to marry without impediments. We cannot change the basic nature of marriage, because of the ends of marriage.

Marriage is designed by God for specific reasons.

Romantic feelings are not reason for marriage. Maybe learn more about marriage?

Now, the civil contract of marriage issued by the state permits many things which are contrary to God’s plan, including multiple marriages. This is not what is meant by Natural Marriage or Sacramental Marriage. The current law of the land is that any configuration of adult humans may get a civil marriage license.

 

[Pathway2]

If a rapist loves a woman or a man, does that make the crime okay? I mean after all, it’s a matter of love.

That is disgusting to suggest. even Homosexuality can be consensual action. There are different contexts to This and Rape.

May I point out that rape has nothing to do with love. Rape is used for Humiliation, inserting your power over a victim and rage; There is no love in Rape. How could say such a thing.

 

[J-walker]

1. Abortion is murder.

Look at Psalm 139:13-18; to interfere in this is absolutely wrong and irreverent to God and hostile to the unborn. Also, read Proverbs 6:16-17; the Lord hates hands that shed innocent blood. We should have no part in condoning this. Ponder Psalm 127:3-5. Children are a reward from God not an unimportant being you can murder before birth. Also, Proverbs 31:8-9 says SPEAK UP for the helpless who are being crushed.

1. God created male and female to be one flesh in marriage, and homosexual behavior is a sin.

Read Mark 10:6-9. And Romans 1:26-28. And Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13. And Hebrews 13:4. And you can not argue with 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

But remember James 4:12, we don’t judge the person; that is God’s right and role alone. But we can discern the actions we should take: right vs wrong, to the best of our ability. And 2 Timothy 3:16 says all scripture is useful in teaching. So really, it’s not only to disagree with the Church but to disagree with the Word of God, and Jesus is the Word made flesh…

 

[HomeschoolDad]

In addition, we need to consider when it isn’t a sin to have an abortion, one question would be about saving the women’s life because of the Birth. Of course, abortion shouldn’t be used as a
easy contraceptive. However I also want it not to result an immediate excommunication.

The “abortion to save the life of the mother”, if indeed it ever comes to that (aside from an ectopic pregnancy, where the tube may be removed even though it has a conceived entity inside of it who will surely die), might have just a little bit of “wiggle room”. I have wondered if we might say “we will remove the fetus, and keep it alive, just as soon as we possibly can, as soon as it becomes probably viable outside the womb, and if it dies in spite of our best efforts, that will be very sad, but at least the mother’s life will have been saved”. I have also taken to heart Dr Bernard Nathanson’s argument in Aborting America, comparing a child whose presence in utero threatens the mother’s life, to a thrashing madman tethered to a sane person floating in the ocean — must the sane person allow the madman to thrash about and drown both of them, or may the sane person cut the tether, allow the madman to die, and save himself?

A few months, we had a very interesting discussion here in the forums about a hypothetical mentally disabled idiot savant, who just happens to have a talent for shooting, who gets hold of a gun and lots of ammo, and goes into the town square and starts shooting people at random. He has just enough wit about him to shoot and kill people, but doesn’t comprehend what he’s doing, and thinks it’s a funny game. Is it licit to shoot and kill him (assuming that is the only way he can be stopped), to keep him from continuing to kill more and more people, or must we say “oh, he’s innocent, he’s mentally disabled, we can’t take his life, that would be wrong, even though he’s killing other people at random and isn’t going to stop until he runs out of ammo”?

 

[PetraG]

The Church provides us with God’s truth. When we “disagree”, it is we who are wrong— not the Church. What you are called to do is study, learn, and come to believe through the use of your intellect.

I’d add the caveat, too, that sometimes when we are wrong it is because we think the Church is saying or asking something that it is not. It is unfortunately too common for people to reject what they think the Church is saying without learning what the Church is actually saying and learning the reasons that the Church teaches what she does. One or the other of those is very often the problem.

 

[po18guy]

Well, since you ask, it would be very advantageous to read the reasoning of the Church. In other words, the catechism. Contained within it is the most comprehensive thought on the human person and interaction with creation ever put to paper. Matters of faith and morals are delved into succinctly and with a multiplicity of references.

If one’s sexual relationship is neither fertile nor according with physiology, it is based on or influenced by sensuality and emotions - both fleeting in nature. Many heterosexual interactions fall within the same category.

Our thoughts are greatly influenced by surrounding culture - a culture which judges only those with standards and sound reasoning.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

God said to enter into your own relationship with me. I believe it is your responsibility to ask God if the church can take the place of you in your personal relationship with him and assume to know everything that God wants you to know. You should be confident of God’s answer but hear it for yourself.

The church provides you with their interpretation of God’s word. It is your responsibility to check with God if your interpretation of their interpretation is the message intended. To protect the integrity of the church this is essential.

Not quite clear how this follows from anything I said, but where did Almighty God say “enter into your own relationship with me”? I’ve read the entire Bible (all *seventy-three books) word-for-word, and I don’t recall ever reading that.

Catholics believe that the Church speaks with the voice of God Himself — “he who hears you, hears Me”. We do not have “God’s word” (I assume here you refer to the Bible) which we read and pray to God Himself that we are interpreting it in accord with His Mind. That is the Protestant principle of private interpretation. That is not a Catholic concept.

 

[TheLittleLady]

The Scriptures were given to us by the Church. We go to the Church for interpretation, relying on our own feelings has left the world with thousands and thousands of different denominations.

 

[Dovekin]

where did Almighty God say “enter into your own relationship with me”?

“Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.” (Psalm 46:10)

He numbers the stars, and gives to each of them their names. Psalm 147:4