Can our family still be catholic?

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agapewolf said:
Where in the world do you get this? It is official church teaching-- part of the magisterium.

and even so…why not believe it? You are missing out on possible healing for your kid out of denial.
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I am Googling Sacrament of the Sick now. Will let you know what I find.
 
90Domer said:
I honestly think you or this Institute is interpreting or reading something into doctrine that isn’t there. I’m not even sure what you even wanted me to do. I’m not taking my kid to get anointed. We don’t have enough priests to help the dying.
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I’m not suggesting you take your kid to get anointed. I was suggesting you read the catechism about the sacrament of the sick so you stop arguing that its not binding belief-- and stop being in denial–and thinking you don’t have to believe it.

This healing center is in FLORIDA. THe TOB institute is in PA. The healing center taught a class the the TOB institiute.

This psychologist does Christian healing therapy, mostly involving wounds from issues regarding sexual identity. He is under the direction of his bishop. You can look into it yourself to see what its all about. They are NOT “interpreting something into doctrine that isn’t there”. They are experiencing and living it out in the healing process. Daily.

Pornography addiction, same sex attraction, wounds caused by parents, wounds caused in the generational line, wounds caused by curses from cults, wounds caused by divorce (not just emotional adjustment, but spiritual wounds that attach to a family when a couple divorces), wounds caused by soul ties when you sin with someone, you bind with them through evil. All of these they work on healing. All of these wounds can manifest themselves in harmful ways to varying degrees.

To be in denial about this possibility puts you in a bad place. I think you said it when they can be harmed more by outside influences. Well, yes. But the fact that the very start of life is ignored as a huge open whole allowing those influences to be even more harmful.
 
And I am not finding Sacrament of the Sick. I am finding sacrament of The Anointing of the Sick. As I asked before, is this what you are talking about?
 
90Domer said:
And I am not finding Sacrament of the Sick. I am finding sacrament of The Anointing of the Sick. As I asked before, is this what you are talking about?
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interchangeable title.

Just like Sacrament of Penance/ Reconciliation/ confession

Read the catechism.
 
I don’t get where my kid fits any if these criteria. Is there an entry I need to focus on? Hubby and I are not stupid people–advanced degrees from Catholic universities.

In all charity, I am stumped.
 
agapewolf said:
I’m not suggesting you take your kid to get anointed. I was suggesting you read the catechism about the sacrament of the sick so you stop arguing that its not binding belief-- and stop being in denial–and thinking you don’t have to believe it.

This healing center is in FLORIDA. THe TOB institute is in PA. The healing center taught a class the the TOB institiute.

This psychologist does Christian healing therapy, mostly involving wounds from issues regarding sexual identity. He is under the direction of his bishop. You can look into it yourself to see what its all about. They are NOT “interpreting something into doctrine that isn’t there”. They are experiencing and living it out in the healing process. Daily.

Pornography addiction, same sex attraction, wounds caused by parents, wounds caused in the generational line, wounds caused by curses from cults, wounds caused by divorce (not just emotional adjustment, but spiritual wounds that attach to a family when a couple divorces), wounds caused by soul ties when you sin with someone, you bind with them through evil. All of these they work on healing. All of these wounds can manifest themselves in harmful ways to varying degrees.

To be in denial about this possibility puts you in a bad place. I think you said it when they can be harmed more by outside influences. Well, yes. But the fact that the very start of life is ignored as a huge open whole allowing those influences to be even more harmful.
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Ok. I never denied that I was once in a spiritually bad place. I’m not there anymore and neither is hubby. You will need to trust me that I have taken utmost are and the proper steps to heal myself. And I am no longer going to beat myself up for my decision. Priests told me I am forgiven and free to move on and be a great parent. And that’s what I am doing. So much so I am hoping DS discerns a vocation. After all, it was through BJPII that he had what all doctors agree was a miraculous gain in skills from a kid who was supposed to live his whole life in an institution. Someone “up there” likes me. :);). God bless and thank you for your concern.
 
90Domer said:
Ok. I never denied that I was once in a spiritually bad place. I’m not there anymore and neither is hubby. You will need to trust me that I have taken utmost are and the proper steps to heal myself. And I am no longer going to beat myself up for my decision. Priests told me I am forgiven and free to move on and be a great parent. And that’s what I am doing. So much so I am hoping DS discerns a vocation. After all, it was through BJPII that he had what all doctors agree was a miraculous gain in skills from a kid who was supposed to live his whole life in an institution. Someone “up there” likes me. :);). God bless and thank you for your concern.
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You aren’t reading what I write. I’m not speaking about your “sin” or making any judgement on you. I appreciate, and am very grateful that you have confessed, healed, etc.

I’m talking about the possible issues that your kid may have. This all started when you said that because you won’t tell him, he won’t suffer at all from the fact he was conceived that way. I have been trying this whole time to tell you that is absolutely NOT True. He very well may suffer from it, without even knowing about it. THAT is the denial I am talking about.

To not tell him (at an age appropriate time) would be detrimental because should he suffer any spiritual wounds, he can identify the root-- the beginning that created the possible issues of them. He can take them to therapy, if needed.
 
agapewolf said:
You aren’t reading what I write. I’m not speaking about your “sin” or making any judgement on you. I appreciate, and am very grateful that you have confessed, healed, etc.

I’m talking about the possible issues that your kid may have. This all started when you said that because you won’t tell him, he won’t suffer at all from the fact he was conceived that way. I have been trying this whole time to tell you that is absolutely NOT True. He very well may suffer from it, without even knowing about it. THAT is the denial I am talking about.

To not tell him (at an age appropriate time) would be detrimental because should he suffer any spiritual wounds, he can identify the root-- the beginning that created the possible issues of them. He can take them to therapy, if needed.
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To say that a child might experience spiritual wounds because of the way he was conceived borders on superstition to me. I do not think there is any evidence that what you say is true. A parent is not obligated to share with a child the circumstances of his or her conception. Good Lord. One of my kids was conceived when I was drunk. Should I tell him?

If you have any legitimate evidence that indicates in vitro babies are spiritually damaged later in life please do share it.
 
agapewolf said:
You aren’t reading what I write. I’m not speaking about your “sin” or making any judgement on you. I appreciate, and am very grateful that you have confessed, healed, etc.

I’m talking about the possible issues that your kid may have. This all started when you said that because you won’t tell him, he won’t suffer at all from the fact he was conceived that way. I have been trying this whole time to tell you that is absolutely NOT True. He very well may suffer from it, without even knowing about it. THAT is the denial I am talking about.

To not tell him (at an age appropriate time) would be detrimental because should he suffer any spiritual wounds, he can identify the root-- the beginning that created the possible issues of them. He can take them to therapy, if needed.
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Ok, I am becoming less dense. As of this writing, my son knows he was conceived with the help of doctors. And yes, at some point we may tell him all the gory details. He knows why we could not conceive naturally and why it is statistically impossible for us to give me a sibling through natural conception. At age 10, he does not need to know more than “doctors helped mom and dad have you.”

Honestly, I think the spiritual wounds he’s going to suffer from our decisions are slim to none. I can name about 20-25 other things that can possibly spiritually wound him far more. I am not poo-pooing what you said, but (for instance) I think he would be more affected by our hovering parenting and/or the fact that he is an only child. Seriously, I think many more of his spiritual wounds will come from other major life events that he is conscious of and that happen above the ae of reason. Just my two cents.
 
JackieMom said:
To say that a child might experience spiritual wounds because of the way he was conceived borders on superstition to me. I do not think there is any evidence that what you say is true. A parent is not obligated to share with a child the circumstances of his or her conception. Good Lord. One of my kids was conceived when I was drunk. Should I tell him?

If you have any legitimate evidence that indicates in vitro babies are spiritually damaged later in life please do share it.
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Can I share my crude joke with you? Just to lighten this thread?
 
Sarah2 said:
We’re afraid of rejection from our parish priest, and unsure if a child born from IVF CAN be baptized in the catholic church. At this point, I’m considering going to a church of a denomination that accepts IVF.

Is there a solution for this?
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There is no solution for this outside of you having a change of heart. The Church requires that you accept her entire system.
 
JackieMom said:
To say that a child might experience spiritual wounds because of the way he was conceived borders on superstition to me. I do not think there is any evidence that what you say is true. A parent is not obligated to share with a child the circumstances of his or her conception. Good Lord. One of my kids was conceived when I was drunk. Should I tell him?

If you have any legitimate evidence that indicates in vitro babies are spiritually damaged later in life please do share it.
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I promise you this is absolutely NOT superstition. This is also not above God’s mercy and healing power.

It seems like everyone is so focusing on the practicalities here and forgetting that this is BASIC church teaching! The fall of adam and even created spiritual wounds-- that haunt us and manifest themselves to this day. It’s in the generational line.

Any participation in sin at all creates spiritual wounds for us, for those around us. Otherwise the most private personal sin wouldn’t be a sin because it doesn’t appear to do any damage.
 
Now, can we please lend some support the OP? After I had my beloved child, we both went to confession, and several times. What every priest told us (amen for consistency) is that we had an obligation to raise him in the Faith.

OP, by all means please, please, PLEASE baptize and enjoy your son. And really enjoy him even when he has smelly poop. Don’t step down to another religion that does not have the Real Presence. I truly think you will find great comfort in staying with the RCC.
 
JackieMom said:
To say that a child might experience spiritual wounds because of the way he was conceived borders on superstition to me. I do not think there is any evidence that what you say is true. A parent is not obligated to share with a child the circumstances of his or her conception. Good Lord. One of my kids was conceived when I was drunk. Should I tell him?

If you have any legitimate evidence that indicates in vitro babies are spiritually damaged later in life please do share it.
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I am running into the same logic brick wall. Actually, your method of conception sounds a heck of a lot more fun.😃 However, you don’t have to tell your child because you didn’t use a third party to conceive like I did.
 
Xantippe said:
“If she destroys the frozen embryos isn’t that killing human lives? Wouldn’t she have an obligation to make sure those embryos are born? Do two wrongs make a right?”

I’m not sure there is an obligation to do a transfer of the remaining embryos, but it certainly does not improve the situationo abandon the frozen embryos, and destroying them or “donating them to science” is totally out of the question.

The sin is in the initial manufacturing process, not the transfer. (Moral theologians, correct me if I’m wrong.) That may ease the OP’s mind.

Am I right in thinking that they can licitly either:
  1. leave the embryos safely frozen
  2. transfer the embryos
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I’m not sure what the solution would be at this point, but I know that the Church teaches that one of the reasons IVF is sinful is that it removes the marital act form the creation of the children. However, I think that leaving the children to die at this point would be a crueler sin. That’s my opinion though. The OP should consult with a priest.
 
Dear Sarah,

All of us are loved by God in such an abundant way that we cannot fully comprehend such love.
Please return to Mass, refraining from communion until your issues are resolved.

Please make an appointment with a Priest that you are comfortable as soon as possible. He will listen carefully and compassionately to all that has happened in your lives and counsel you about the great comfort that comes with reconciliation with God.
God is waiting for you to return to Him with open arms. He sent His Son, the ultimate of sacrifices, as proof of the great love He has for you. There is nothing that cannot be forgiven.

The Priest can help you sort out what is needed for a true and valid confession, including the issues surrounding contrition.

Please have your child baptized and bring your child up in the Church. It is the best gift you can give to the child you love so much. Your child will be most welcome.

Blessings.
 
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