Can our family still be catholic?

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Sarah2

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I was born and raised in the Catholic faith and so was my husband. We’ve been married for over 10 years. We struggled with infertility and pregnancy loss, which was an incredibly painfull period. We received a lot of support from our parish but it still almost destroyed our marriage.

A year ago, we chose to resolve our infertility by doing IVF. We both knew very well the CC’s stance on this. We were aware that what we were doing was a sin. The IVF was successfull, and we now have our beautiful son. We have several more embryo’s frozen and we are planning to use them all to have more children in the future.

We are very conflicted about whether we still are catholics at this point. We are aware of having committed a grave sin, but we can’t really confess it because, quite honestly, we’re not sorry. Infertility threw a dark shadow of grief over our whole lives which has now been lifted. I’d do IVF again in a heartbeat.

Because of this moral conflict, we’re afraid to go to mass, and we haven’t made any arrangements to have our son baptized. We’re afraid of rejection from our parish priest, and unsure if a child born from IVF CAN be baptized in the catholic church. At this point, I’m considering going to a church of a denomination that accepts IVF.

Is there a solution for this?
 
Yes, there is a solution. Give up the embryos and confess your sin in confession and move on.

It is not your sons fault that you used an immoral act to bring him into this world. The church will baptize him if:
  1. They know that the child will be raised as catholic (meaning you guys clean up this mess and live as catholics).
  2. He becomes of age where he can practice catholicism himself.
You say you know it is a grave sin and that you FULL knew that what the church/God teaches in this matter and yet you persisted in your sin and obstinatley persist in it today.

You the parents are in the state of grave moral sin!

You are choosing to put your trust, your marriage into the hands of science and YOUR OWN will and power and openly say “NO” to God’s will in your life.

You are even willing to walk away from Christ’s church and TRUTH itself so you can live as you wish?

THis is not good at all and is spiritually a very dangerous position to be in.

I will keep you in my prayers today. Today is the feast day of St. Joseph… a man who without question wished to do God’s will and placed his trust in God alone and left himself behind…and what good he was able to accomplish in this world! And what great gift of life (a son who he did not bring into this world himself) God entrusted to him.

Like St. Joseph…have you ever submitted to Gods will and considered adoption?

Please reconsider for the good of your souls and for that of your son! Look at the life of St. Joseph and maybe say a little prayer to him today…ask him what God can do when we entrust ourselves to him and do what he asks.

God bless you friend!

Michael
 
You are always welcome in the Catholic Church. I’d make an appointment to discuss this with your priest. This is a complicated and emotional situation, and you will get the best information and guidance from a caring and knowledgable priest.

Do you believe that the Catholic Church is the one true Church with the fullness of Christian truth? If so, you know that seeking out a lesser faith just because it permits you to do as you wish is wrong and a disservice to your family. I think many of us have struggled with one teaching or another (divorce, contraception, etc.) and it is always difficult to conform our will to God’s, rather than seek out an easier path. I understand. I’ve sometimes wished I could have been born an Episcopalian for this very reason : )

Despite the circumstances, God has blessed you with a healthy son. For that, you can and should always be grateful. May God assist you in your journey!
 
I believe that a faith which denies you the right to a family should not dictate your life choices, you need to do what will make you happy. If it is not hurting anyone else, why is it a sin?

I am Pope Francis I and I approve this message.

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
 
Sarah,May God bless you. I would advise you to talk to a priest, on a matter of this importance. Getting information on a website is shaky at best, too many personal opinions. And may God bless your little boy.
Good luck.
 
Prayerfully consider all these responses! If you value your immortal souls and that of your child, DO NOT walk away from the Catholic Church.
 
Of course your son can be baptized. The Church will never turn a child away regardless of the circumstances of his or her birth. Any priest who tells you differently is a hypocrite, just ask our Holy Father. See Canon Law.

As for you and your husband, you can attend Mass but you really should not receive communion until you’ve gone to confession. You are right, though, it is clear that you’re not ready to have a legit confession because you’re not contrite at all.

Now, I cannot claim to know what you and your husband went through. I have no idea how hard this all was for you. I would suggest that you learn more about why the Church says what it does about IVF. I would suggest checking out Christopher West’s Theology of the Body. He really dumbs down Church teaching and makes it easier to digest. I would also ask you to pray about it.

I will keep your family in my prayers. :hug1::gopray:
 
Sarah2 said:
I was born and raised in the Catholic faith and so was my husband. We’ve been married for over 10 years. We struggled with infertility and pregnancy loss, which was an incredibly painfull period. We received a lot of support from our parish but it still almost destroyed our marriage.

A year ago, we chose to resolve our infertility by doing IVF. We both knew very well the CC’s stance on this. We were aware that what we were doing was a sin. The IVF was successfull, and we now have our beautiful son. We have several more embryo’s frozen and we are planning to use them all to have more children in the future.

We are very conflicted about whether we still are catholics at this point. We are aware of having committed a grave sin, but we can’t really confess it because, quite honestly, we’re not sorry. Infertility threw a dark shadow of grief over our whole lives which has now been lifted. I’d do IVF again in a heartbeat.
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Apparently you wouldn’t, because:
Because of this moral conflict, we’re afraid to go to mass, and we haven’t made any arrangements to have our son baptized. We’re afraid of rejection from our parish priest, and unsure if a child born from IVF CAN be baptized in the catholic church. At this point, I’m considering going to a church of a denomination that accepts IVF.
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Your relationship with God has been stained by this. You realise that this does not please Him and that you have saddened Him by your willful disobedience to Him. Now you fear His wrath because of what you’ve done.

You are more sorry than you think.
Is there a solution for this?
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My first suggestion is to read “Donum Vitae”, which can be found on the Vatican website:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19870222_respect-for-human-life_en.html

Find the section with “IVF” in it. (Literally; hit Edit, Crtl+F, and type in “IVF”.)

Second, realise that although you have committed many grave sins, among them:
  • abortion of all the other embryos which have been frozen or thrown away, or subjected to testing,
  • denying the child the right to know who his true father or mother are, and
  • divorcing the marital act from procreation and lowering all of your human dignities,
God still wants you and your lovely boy to be with Him forever and ever. Amen. He has every desire to help us when we are struggling, and to forgive our sins when we have hurt Him and His Body. And I don’t doubt you now have sons and daughters praying in Heaven on your behalves now. But you must accept His forgiveness to receive it. And to accept it, you must be willing to follow His lead. No more IVF.

I might suggest what my parents did when they were looking for me and my sister, now adults. They tried adopting. My father also was close to some nuns in our neighborhood, and asked the nuns to pray for him and my mother to receive a child. God answered their prayers. Why do you think He will not intercede on your behalves? 🙂

God bless you. I know He loves you, and you should not be afraid of Him. But He knows what is best for you.
 
Why IVF is Wrong

Human beings bear the image and likeness of God. They are to be reverenced as sacred. Never are they to be used as a means to an end, not even to satisfy the deepest wishes of an infertile couple. Husbands and wives “make love,” they do not “make babies.” They give expression to their love for one another, and a child may or may not be engendered by that act of love. The marital act is not a manufacturing process, and children are not products. Like the Son of God himself, we are the kind of beings who are “begotten, not made” and, therefore, of equal status and dignity with our parents.

In IVF, children are engendered through a technical process, subjected to “quality control,” and eliminated if found “defective.” In their very coming into being, these children are thoroughly subjected to the arbitrary choices of those bringing them into being. In the words of Donum Vitae: “The connection between in vitro fertilization and the voluntary destruction of human embryos occurs too often. This is significant: through these procedures, with apparently contrary purposes, life and death are subjected to the decision of man, who thus sets himself up as the giver of life and death by decree.” The document speaks of “the right of every person to be conceived and to be born within marriage and from marriage.” To be within and from marriage, conception should occur from the marriage act which by its nature is ordered toward loving openness to life, not from the manipulations of technicians.

The dehumanizing aspects of some of these procedures is evident in the very language associated with them. There is the “reproductive technology industry.” Children are called the “products” of conception. Inherent in IVF is the treatment of children, in their very coming into being, as less than human beings.

This the basic church stance on why VIF is wrong. Your child can be baptized and he will be fine he is in no danger. However as you have been told your souls are now in danger. I don’t know what your fate will be like only God knows and remember he is merciful and loving beyond our understanding. Can you still be called Catholics. The answer is no, however you are orthodox Catholics. Now I am not an expert on this topic I would go consult a priest. Though I am concerned about what you said, about going to a church that is ok with IVF. If you are catholic at heart then you know the church is never wrong in matters of morals and faith. Therefore you would only be running away from the truth. I will pray for you, and I am sorry about the position you are in. It must be very hard to be infernal but that doesn’t make you any less of a person, wife, or mother! Go about this slowly enjoy your son and raise him to be a good man. May God bless you and I hope this all ends well. Remember you though you sinned that doesn’t mean the Church now thinks less of you. We are all sinners therefore we are all the same
 
If she destroys the frozen embryos isn’t that killing human lives? Wouldn’t she have an obligation to make sure those embryos are born? Do two wrongs make a right? I don’t know much about IVF. Just asking.
 
MichaelHowling said:
Yes, there is a solution. Give up the embryos and confess your sin in confession and move on.

God bless you friend!

Michael
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Perhaps I misunderstand your intention Michael, but this couple can’t just “give up the embryos.” These are human beings, children, their children, they cannot just abandon them and let them be killed or used for research. This is one of the grave reasons why the Church disallows IVF…remembering God’s commandment “Thou shalt not kill”

Sarah please go to Confession, both you and your husband,
and also discuss with him regarding your tiny children and their life, safety and their future.

May God bless and protect all your family
Prayers for you both and for all your children
 
Trishie said:
Perhaps I misunderstand your intention Michael, but this couple can’t just “give up the embryos.” These are human beings, children, their children, they cannot just abandon them and let them be killed or used for research. This is one of the grave reasons why the Church disallows IVF…remembering God’s commandment “Thou shalt not kill”

Sarah please go to Confession, both you and your husband,
and also discuss with him regarding your tiny children and their life, safety and their future.

May God bless and protect all your family
Prayers for you both and for all your children
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Perhaps he meant give them up for adoption?

I’m not sure that option would be any more licit than the OP having them implanted in her own womb. She is the mother, these are her children.

I would suggest to the OP to bring this to confession as well.
 
“If she destroys the frozen embryos isn’t that killing human lives? Wouldn’t she have an obligation to make sure those embryos are born? Do two wrongs make a right?”

I’m not sure there is an obligation to do a transfer of the remaining embryos, but it certainly does not improve the situation to abandon the frozen embryos, and destroying them or “donating them to science” is totally out of the question.

The sin is in the initial manufacturing process, not the transfer. (Moral theologians, correct me if I’m wrong.) That may ease the OP’s mind.

Am I right in thinking that they can licitly either:
  1. leave the embryos safely frozen
  2. transfer the embryos
 
I have literally walked a mile in your shoes, with the same outcome…a son that I love more than anything on Earth. However, we approached it a little differently.

First, 12 years ago, my husband and I did not know why infertility treatments were wrong. Nor did we even realize that certain tests for infertility were wrong. I did consult with a priest near the end of my cycle and went to confession. He explained to me why it was wrong. However, since the cycle was nearly complete, he made me promise that we would not freeze any embryos (we didn’t) and that we would not go through it again (we never did).

As my son grew and we became wiser, we would NEVER consider IVF again. The main reason is because too many people (single, SSA couples) other than infertile couples are using the technology to bring children into families that–I firmly believe–are not ideal for the child. This made us think the child is seen as a commodity rather than a gift from God.

The second reason is that it is not too glamorous recalling how my son was conceived. It wasn’t during an act of love but rather during a horribly stressful period in time (and IVF is horribly stressful) and by third party intervention.

The third reason is that we were being selfish and following what we wanted versus what God wanted. My husband was rendered infertile through a botched operation when he was an infant. For whatever reason, God wanted my husband to be infertile. Who am I to question that?

Recently, a doctor told me that if I wanted another cild, I could always do IVF. I told him, “No way!” And honestly, I think as you mature, you will start to feel differently about the procedure.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

And yes, our beautiful son was baptized in a lovely ceremony. No doubt, God has been good to us.
 
90Domer said:
This made us think the child is seen as a commodity rather than a gift from God.
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:sad_yes: It’s subtle. But it is there. And once you see it, you can never accept it.
The second reason is that it is not too glamorous recalling how my son was conceived. It wasn’t during an act of love but rather during a horribly stressful period in time (and IVF is horribly stressful) and by third party intervention.
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If it’s not asking too much, what is IVF like? How does it compare to the coital act? I mean, how bad is it, really?
 
TarkanAttila said:
:sad_yes: It’s subtle. But it is there. And once you see it, you can never accept it.

If it’s not asking too much, what is IVF like? How does it compare to the coital act? I mean, how bad is it, really?
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Well, I always tell people that there are two levels of IVF. The first level, which I believe is way more common, has the sperm and unite in a Petri dish much like intercourse. Really the big difference from intercourse is that 1) it occurs outside the body and 2) multiple eggs are usually present to be fertilized. The eggs are then placed in an incubator for three days before being transplanted back in the womb.

The second level, and this is often used for male factor infertility, is what I call a forced fertilization. The husband’s sperm is literally injected into the egg in order to fertilize it. This is usually because men have either low sperm count, poor sperm quality or both.

We needed to use the second level of IVF because my husband literally had about 8-9 sperm that were of good enough quality to fertilize my eggs. It is very difficult for us to think that, had our procedures been at a different time or had the embryologist picked a different sperm, we would not have our boy as we know him now. And it is also sad knowing that some embryos–our babies–died during the cycle. Very hard to wrap your mind around.

I have often been asked why we didn’t go the adoption route. There were a few reason. They may have been selfish, but this is what gave us pause. We were not in favor of open adoption, as many domestic adoptions tend to be. Also, we were not sure how we would feel if, children like to do, the adopted child would want to seek out his/her biological parents. As for foreign adoptions, we literally heard too many horror stories about the process lingering on, the cost involved, and the very real chance that the effort would come to nothing. And, believe it or not, IVF was a cheaper way to try to build our family. It’s sad that we thought in those terms, but we did. 😦
 
I think that we need to recognize the pain and disappointment associated with infertility. It can break couples. For twenty years you watch everyone else have the kind of family you long for - that our faith tells us is the point of marriage and God’s blessing. We can maintain that IVF is wrong while showing deep compassion for the suffering of the infertile couple. They are offered a chance at a traditional family via IVF. It must be awfully difficult to turn it down when the heart longs so desperately for a child. I would like to imagine that I’d be strong enough to say “no” to the option, even if it meant I’d never have a family, but who knows what I would really do if I were desperate to have a baby. OP, please speak with your priest. He can guide you as you navigate the road ahead.
 
Thanks to all for giving your advice.
Some clarification regarding the embryo’s: I consider them to be our chidren. They are from my ova and my husband’s sperm, so we are their parents in all possible definitions. We never had any embryo’s wilfully distroyed or given up for experimentation. All have been safely frozen.

I’m not a specialist on the church’s teachings in this subject, but I do believe that the most ethical thing to do at this point is to give the embryo’s the best chances of being born into their own family.
I’m not sure what the first poster means when he says we have to ‘give them up’. Having them destroyed on purpose would be an even graver sin than the one we already committed. Giving them to other couples would deprive them of their biological family for no reason.

We’ll definitely speak with our parish priest. I’m not sure what he’ll say. How can we be absolved for committing a sin we don’t regret? It’s a huge relief that our child will be able to recieve baptism.
 
First off, we are not talking about embryos, we are talking about frozen people.

Small, incomplete, undeveloped, but still people.

You have people of your own kind, locked in a lab somewhere, frozen. That is what you have done.

If you don’t regret, you can’t confess. And if you don’t confess, you are turning away from God. If you turn away from God, you will lead your family in the same direction sooner or later.

There is no way around this. Talk to a priest about it, and try to find a way to solve this situation. I am not sure about this, but I think the only moral action that you could take is at least try to bring all of your kids to life, instead of letting them rot in a freezer somewhere.

God bless you and your family!
 
Sarah2 said:
Thanks to all for giving your advice.
Some clarification regarding the embryo’s: I consider them to be our chidren. They are from my ova and my husband’s sperm, so we are their parents in all possible definitions. We never had any embryo’s wilfully distroyed or given up for experimentation. All have been safely frozen.

I’m not a specialist on the church’s teachings in this subject, but I do believe that the most ethical thing to do at this point is to give the embryo’s the best chances of being born into their own family.
I’m not sure what the first poster means when he says we have to ‘give them up’. Having them destroyed on purpose would be an even graver sin than the one we already committed. Giving them to other couples would deprive them of their biological family for no reason.

We’ll definitely speak with our parish priest. I’m not sure what he’ll say. How can we be absolved for committing a sin we don’t regret? It’s a huge relief that our child will be able to recieve baptism.
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First off, you don’t know that they’ve been “safely frozen”. IVF is the most dangerous way to create human beings. Most embryos don’t make it, many have deformities.

Let’s reflect on a minute on what the contrition would be for. Contrition does NOT have to be for the outcome of sinful behavior. God is the one that creates life, and gives the soul, NOT you. The fact that your child exists means that God allowed something good to come of sinful behavior. Many people live unchaste lives for awhile, and turn it around-- sometimes because of them seeing the emptyness that the unchastity caused them. They regret the offense they caused God and themselves, but NOT what they learned from the sinfulness. This is not the same thing as not being contrite for the sin.

2nd… the church is clear that every child has a right to be conceived in a loving act between a mother and father. You denied your children that right…can you please be sorry for this fact? Not the fact that the children exist, but that you directly stole their part in the image of the trinity. There will be emotional and spiritual wounds he sustains because of this.
He instituted that marriage is an image of the trinity and Christ’s love for the church…2 begets three. You desecrated this natural image and made it in your own image.

3rd- it sounds like you would only be sorry if you actually see harmful consequences. Because you can’t see them, there is no reason to be contrite? well, that is arrogance. The consequences are there, but you can’t see them.

Remember, God is only offended by what we do that harms us. It’s not an arbitrary rule that IVF is sinful, its actually harmful to us, to you. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean the harm isn’t there.

Please consider-- you don’t have to regret the good that came out of sin in order to regret the sin.
 
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