Can parts of the Bible be proven historically?

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coolduude

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Now I’m not talking about the flood or things like that. What I have in mind is
  • God’s revelation to the Israelites. Can their journey through the desert be proven historically? What about God’s revelation to them? Can any of this be historically proven?
Basically what I’m asking is can the OT (parts of it) be really historically proven? Because if some of it can, God can basically be historically proven 😛

Sorry if this confuses anyone :-/

ask me for more details if needed 🙂

thanks,
coolduude:cool:
 
Well, certain historical facts, like that Saul, David, and Solomon were genuinely kings of a state called Israel with a real Temple of Solomon are pretty well proved…
 
I’m no expert but I would certainly think that parts of it can. I know there is a magazine called Biblical Archaelogy which might be a starting point for you.

bib-arch.org/bar/

Amie
 
coolduude said:
Now I’m not talking about the flood or things like that. What I have in mind is
  • God’s revelation to the Israelites. Can their journey through the desert be proven historically? What about God’s revelation to them? Can any of this be historically proven?
Basically what I’m asking is can the OT (parts of it) be really historically proven? Because if some of it can, God can basically be historically proven 😛

Sorry if this confuses anyone :-/

ask me for more details if needed 🙂

thanks,
coolduude:cool:
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When you say “proven historically” what do you mean?
Do you mean by corraborating documentary evidence?
Do you mean by Archeological evidence?

I remember seeing a program once that offered some pretty good evidences for the Egyptian plagues and the journey through the desert. I was impressed by the program because, while it was not specifically religious in nature, neither was it anti-religious. It presented a pretty balanced view. And surprisingly enough, it was on the History Channel.😛

Peace
James

Peace
James
 
“Historical proof” must be defined first. For example, if there are multiple sources testifying that something happened, the historian may assign a high probablity to the idea that the event actually occured. How would you “prove” a revelation from God? Such things are matters of faith, not of history. How can you prove that God caused a flood or a storm or a plague? All such things were directly attributed to God in the ancient world because there was no understanding of what caused them.
 
Oooh, good one. The Jewish presence in the Middle East is known in archaeological snippets. For example, the reality of King David was only recently confirmed by a wee rock with his name on it in Aramaic. There are settlements with no pig bones. There are unique housing configurations believed to be Jewish, and I believe the Hebrews were modeling their homes as simple mini-temples in the way the chambers are set up. The Jews were unique and did not assimilate well as we are told was by God’s counsel. Egypt’s Merneptah says he was victorious against the Jews in battle. This may or may not be true, one should note, in that defeats were sometimes spun into victories. Akhenaton gave rich concessions to Hebrews in turning over colonial holdings to them.

Then there’s the modern day reticence to identify peoples like the Hittites or Hyksos as of Semitic origin with the atheist intelligentsia leaning away from Bible accuracy in a kind of willful disbelief. New settlements and population surges seen in Chanaan show somebody popped in from nowhere. Sodom and Gomorrah were found and gave credence to the Bible history as evidence of a volcanic eruption are present. Ramesses was a town in Egypt where formerly exalted Jews could have been enslaved by the new, military rulers, the Seti and Rameses lineage, who would have been less likely to honor Joseph’s contribution to Egypt’s welfare as being hard-nosed soldiers.

The Naked Archaeologist show in the History Channel provided a construct for the plagues of Egypt by a Jewish scholar. Immanuel Velikovsky set a research trend in conforming Biblical upheaval with astral upheaval accounts paralleled in other ancient cultures. Velikovsky suggests a shower of meteorites could have rained microparticulate iron into the waters, turning them blood-red. Velikovsky–hated by spaceman-loving scientist-atheists–includes records of a fine bread-like precipitate falling like the Jewish manna in South America, as I recall. This could have happened if hydrocarbons from the near-pass-by of some heavely body Velikovsky theorized misted on the Earth and unique and rare microorganisms (present today) turned them into carbohydrates. Wild but possible.

The general trend in the last century is that the Bible as an historical account was mocked and archaeology upended the mockers.
 
patg said:
“Historical proof” must be defined first. For example, if there are multiple sources testifying that something happened, the historian may assign a high probablity to the idea that the event actually occured. How would you “prove” a revelation from God? Such things are matters of faith, not of history. How can you prove that God caused a flood or a storm or a plague? All such things were directly attributed to God in the ancient world because there was no understanding of what caused them.
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Your last sentence seems to say that people in the ancient world lacked understanding about many natural events but that is not so. I’m certain they understood that if it rained a lot, the water would accumulate and cause flooding.

Regarding the plagues of Egypt, it was not a natural event. Moses spoke as God commanded and then it was attributed to God.

Biblical archaeology has uncovered places and names that critics said did not exist.

Today, miracles need to be assigned to the intercession of Pope John Paul II. The Congregation for Saints’ Causes will call in experts to examine whatever happens. Doctors or whoever will be brought in. A commission will look at all documents and challenge them. Finally, if all looks confirmed, it will be presented to the Pope.

Miracles are not limited to 2000 years ago.

Hope this helps,
Ed
 
Oh, and of course, there’s the most obvious historical fact that’s been confirmed from the Old Testament… Ramses the Great was a real pharaoh. We have lots of hieroglyphic texts and monuments to back that up, and then there’s the best proof of all… his mummy!
 
edwest2 said:
Your last sentence seems to say that people in the ancient world lacked understanding about many natural events but that is not so. I’m certain they understood that if it rained a lot, the water would accumulate and cause flooding.
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But the “raining a lot” is what would be attributed to God’s wrath. There was no understanding of high and low pressure systems, etc.
Regarding the plagues of Egypt, it was not a natural event.
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And what is the proof of that?
Moses spoke as God commanded and then it was attributed to God.
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And where is the evidence that this is exactly what happened? Legends are one of the bible’s literary forms and legends are valid vehicles for revelation.
Biblical archaeology has uncovered places and names that critics said did not exist.
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How does this “prove God”?
Today, miracles need to be assigned to the intercession of Pope John Paul II. The Congregation for Saints’ Causes will call in experts to examine whatever happens. Doctors or whoever will be brought in. A commission will look at all documents and challenge them. Finally, if all looks confirmed, it will be presented to the Pope.

Miracles are not limited to 2000 years ago.
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This doesn’t really relate to the bible proving God, the question posed by the OP.
 
The road map to proving the historical reliability of the Bible is denoted by the acronym MAPS:
  • M - manuscript evidence
  • A - archeological evidence
  • P - the evidence of predictive prophecy
  • S - the science of statistical probability
Personally, I believe the strongest and most convincing of these evidences is that of predictive prophecy. The fact that the Bible essentially writes history hundreds and even thousands of years before the events makes it unlike any other volume of books. It is irrefutable proof that the God who alone knows the future had something to do with the authorship of the original manuscripts.

Let me know if you’re interested in exploring some examples.
 
spockrates said:
The road map to proving the historical reliability of the Bible is denoted by the acronym MAPS:
  • M - manuscript evidence
  • A - archeological evidence
  • P - the evidence of predictive prophecy
  • S - the science of statistical probability
Personally, I believe the strongest and most convincing of these evidences is that of predictive prophecy. The fact that the Bible essentially writes history hundreds and even thousands of years before the events makes it unlike any other volume of books. It is irrefutable proof that the God who alone knows the future had something to do with the authorship of the original manuscripts.

Let me know if you’re interested in exploring some examples.
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Yes! 😛 😃
 
mrhenrik said:
Please, do share your examples.

Regards,
Henrik
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Hey, Henrik! How goes it? Before I do share with you, I’m wondering if you are familiar with any such predictions. And, if you have, I’d be interested to know what you yourself think of them.

🙂
 
I’ve heard a few predictions aye, and they were mostly very vague and had to be interpreted a lot before they fit. If you analyse the Bible enough I’m assuming you can find a prediction for anything you want.
 
mrhenrik said:
I’ve heard a few predictions aye, and they were mostly very vague and had to be interpreted a lot before they fit. If you analyse the Bible enough I’m assuming you can find a prediction for anything you want.
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I agree with you for the most part.
Plus I think that spending too much time on trying to figure out prophesy is dangerous.
Look at how many predictions there have been of the end of the world - obviously all wrong.
This is why Jesus Himself told His disciples that only the Father knows the actual timing of the “end times” events.

Peace
James
 
mrhenrik said:
I’ve heard a few predictions aye, and they were mostly very vague and had to be interpreted a lot before they fit. If you analyse the Bible enough I’m assuming you can find a prediction for anything you want.
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Yes, I suppose some people do. People reading the latest headlines and then looking for evidence of predictions in the biblical text sometimes seem ridiculous!

But what if a prediction of some ancient historical event had already come true. What if the event was so rare that it occurred only once in recorded history? What if the prediction of that event (1) was obviously made hundreds of years prior, (2) was extremely specific, and (3) is verifiable? Would you say that such a prediction was different from the vague, and sometimes laughable, interpretations some ignorant people make?

🙂
 
Are you speaking of, for example, the destruction of the Second Temple?
 
You won’t be able to make me agree with your “evidence” before I’ve even seen it. 🤷

What exactly are you talking about?
 
mrhenrik said:
You won’t be able to make me agree with your “evidence” before I’ve even seen it. 🤷

What exactly are you talking about?
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Not trying to *make *you agree to anything, Mr H. Just wondering what evidence you might accept before I present any.

I mean, suppose you were to say, “It does not matter if the Bible predicted some spectacular event that happened only once in recorded history. I could care less if the predictions were 100% accurate down to the smallest detail. I *still *would never accept such as evidence that some being who knows the future had anything to do with it!” If you were to say this, then I wouldn’t want to waste your time by giving you evidence you had already decided to reject.

So that’s why I’m asking the question. Out of consideration for your time I’m wondering if such evidence would be compelling to you, were I able to present it.

🙂
 
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