Can people choose to be spriritual and live a loving life?

[PRmerger]

I don’t know anything about God. I do believe He is a God of love, because the good in the people He created seems to outweigh the bad.

Do you believe, then that God is Chinese because there are more Chinese people in the world than not?

Really, I don’t mean to be provocative. Only to point out how arbitrary your criterion is for saying God is good.

 

[TedDC]

Do you believe, then that God is Chinese because there are more Chinese people in the world than not?

Really, I don’t mean to be provocative. Only to point out how arbitrary your criterion is for saying God is good.

Is it any more arbitrary than believing that some “laying on of hands” and the pronouncement of some magic words renders a man capable of converting a piece of bread into God?

 

[CMatt25]

we’ll all find out someday.

Yup that’s the truth.

 

[hn160]

You can be spiritual ( whatever that means ) and live a loving life, what is that going to get you. It is doubtful that you will get into Heaven/ You need the Sacraments of Absolution, Baptism and Holy Communion along with the Word read and preached.

 

[TedDC]

You can be spiritual ( whatever that means ) and live a loving life, what is that going to get you. It is doubtful that you will get into Heaven/ You need the Sacraments of Absolution, Baptism and Holy Communion along with the Word read and preached.

And how do you know that?

 

[hn160]

And how do you know that?

By the Words of Christ, you can be spiritual, but with or to what? People say that they are spiritual when the commune with nature while hiking or whatever. What god are they spiritual with?

 

[CMatt25]

So, again, to go back to my Facebook analogy, it seems that some people seem to read God’s posts and will click “like!” on that which is pleasing to them. However, after reading something which is difficult (after praying, ok,) will determine that some things are “dislikeable” and thus, like the serpent in the garden millenia ago who whispered, “Did God really say…”, decide God really didn’t say that.

Really, Matt, what’s so difficult for a believer about saying “our Lord’s name is great”. What’s to dislike about that?

Now, take the other things like, “whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery”, well, I rather wish that were not the case. So, I’m going to listen to the serpent and say, “Did God really say…”

No, I am sorry, Matt, but I cannot abide by a faith in which I get to determine what God said. Because, if I get to decide, I’m going to pick all the fun and happy things.

And I submit to you that this is what Cafeteria Catholics do, what “spiritual but not religious” folks do, and what Protestantism has wrought.

Over a multitude of threads I’ve asked people of this ilk what moral belief they have that they submit to, despite their willing it not to be so, and not a single person has been able to respond.

Speaks volumes.

Church shopping and Cafeteria Catholicism: creating a god in one’s own image, rather than conforming our image to God’s.

You might not like their response of course PR. And that’s fine. As you said you can not abide by such a faith. No need to be sorry though. That’s you. .

But there’s a difference between you not agreeing with the response and no one responding. Now true I don’t know as I have not followed your questions to all the people you have asked “of this ilk”. But it’s difficult for me to imagine that not a single person has ever responded to you. And explained how they to the best of their understanding at any given moment, as mentioned even in CCC 1776, 1782, and 1790, strive to hear God’s Spirit echoing deep within their conscience. With freedom to personally make moral decisions. Without being prevented from acting according to the conscience, especially in religious matters so as not to condemn themselves.

Now of course I understand you and the most faithful Catholics say none of that matters alone, and to read on because another’s conscience is erroneous unless they force their conscience to entirely submit to Catholic Church teaching. For that matter I’ve asked why all of that other is even in there in that case. The Catholic Church could have simply said conform your conscience to all of our teachings and not bothered with all those words about how deep in our consciences God’s voice echos. Or how we have a freedom to make moral decisions and not to act against our consciences so as not to condmen ourselves.

I’d have to go back and look but I think it was Rence who discussed with you your idea about people creating God in their own image. But I’ll only submit it is not creating God in their own image when they are striving in good faith, as people of faith, to conform and submit to God as their authority. With a deeply prayerful and contemplative conscience. To the best of their understanding.

It simply means they are on their lifelong journeys like all of us. May God bless you on yours PR! And God bless all on theirs as well. Peace.

 

[GaryTaylor]

you think you know me…good to know.

God knows me better.

Oh please, you put forth a proposition which you assumed to know the CCC, Doctrine and Dogma of the church and the simple “truth” is are were completely wrong.

The facts were given to you and somehow that turned into everyone here is terrible:shrug:

Cone-on lets stop talking falsely now.

God Bless, Gary

 

[GaryTaylor]

I’m glad the priests that I come across are not as callous as people posting on this thread

Assuming those who post here are callous is again entering a name calling game. You insisted you undertsood specific aspects of the church and it just wasn’t accurate.

Why would anyone here allow that to go on in the wrong direction? That would in essense indicate we condoned your mistake? Does that sound right to you?

I would be happily wrong 100-times to at the end know the truth.

And if some how I hurt your feelings I’m sorry.

God Bless, Gary

 

[PRmerger]

Is it any more arbitrary than believing that some “laying on of hands” and the pronouncement of some magic words renders a man capable of converting a piece of bread into God?

Not arbitrary at all, Ted. We have the 2000 years of the kerygma, the deposit of faith given once, for all, to the saints. Not just a “feeling” that “God wouldn’t …” that tickles my fancy.

I would be careful, though, about how you talk about Catholicism here, Ted. Contempt for Catholicism is a violation of forum rules. I would hate to see you banned as it is clear that you were poorly catechized in the faith that you left and have much to learn. (Transubstantiation is not “magic” at all. I am sorry that you were taught that as a child.)

Glad that you are here! Read and learn!

 

[PRmerger]

You might not like their response of course PR. And that’s fine. As you said you can not abide by such a faith. No need to be sorry though. That’s you.

Well, when I said “I’m sorry” it really was used as a manner of speaking.

But there’s a difference between you not agreeing with the response and no one responding. Now true I don’t know as I have not followed your questions to all the people you have asked “of this ilk”. But it’s difficult for me to imagine that not a single person has ever responded to you. And explained how they to the best of their understanding at any given moment, as mentioned even in CCC 1776, 1782, and 1790, strive to hear God’s Spirit echoing deep within their conscience. With freedom to personally make moral decisions. Without being prevented from acting according to the conscience, especially in religious matters so as not to condemn themselves.

With all due respect, Matt, this still is a non-answer. I believe I have even pointedly asked you in a PM this question and you responded to me, “Hmmm…that’s a good question. I will ponder this and get back to you.” (paraphrasing). But you have yet to respond.

I must conclude, then, that you, like a multitude of others, do NOT have any moral belief to which you’ve assented that disagrees with your own version of how things should be.

This is creating a god in your own image. My god is full of “Likes!” vs “I don’t really like it, but if God declared it, I will conform.”

If you don’t have any such beliefs, then you have created a god that fits your own ideas. rather than conforming your beliefs to that which has been revealed.

 

[PRmerger]

Now of course I understand you and the most faithful Catholics say none of that matters alone, and to read on because another’s conscience is erroneous unless they force their conscience to entirely submit to Catholic Church teaching.

I hope you included Rence in the above, because, apparently, she believes that we all are obliged to follow our conscience, unless you’re a priest. Then you have a “higher standard”, or something like that and oughtn’t follow it.

 

[PRmerger]

I’d have to go back and look but I think it was Rence who discussed with you your idea about people creating God in their own image.

Yes, she did. And she did not mention any belief to which she conformed, despite her wishing it were not proclaimed.

[qutoe]But I’ll only submit it is not creating God in their own image when they are striving in good faith, as people of faith, to conform and submit to God as their authority. With a deeply prayerful and contemplative conscience. To the best of their understanding.

Does this include Fred Phelps as well? Are his conclusions of God’s will valid and worthy of proclaiming. God hates homosexuals? Really, Matt?

 

[Serap]

You can be spiritual ( whatever that means ) and live a loving life, what is that going to get you. It is doubtful that you will get into Heaven/ You need the Sacraments of Absolution, Baptism and Holy Communion along with the Word read and preached.

Many Catholics will challenge you here and say that you do not have the whole truth and you are therefore not garanteed salvation either

 

[PRmerger]

Many Catholics will challenge you here and say that you do not have the whole truth and you are therefore not **garanteed **salvation either

Serap, were you under the misapprehension that we Catholics profess that we are “guaranteed” salvation?

I assure you that we do not profess that. Not at all.

 

[Serap]

Serap, were you under the misapprehension that we Catholics profess that we are “guaranteed” salvation?

I assure you that we do not profess that. Not at all.

That’s not what GaryTaylor told me in a previous post

 

[GaryTaylor]

That’s not what GaryTaylor told me in a previous post

You misunderstand whats being said my friend

I stated “Their is No Salvation Outside The Catholic Church” Now as far as what you and PR are speaking about, one has nothing to do with the other.

Prayers are with you,

God Bless Gary

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Many Catholics will challenge you here and say that you do not have the whole truth and you are therefore not garanteed salvation either

I posted some parts of the Catechism in post 178 that touch on this. Hope that it helps.

 

[TedDC]

Not arbitrary at all, Ted. We have the 2000 years of the kerygma, the deposit of faith given once, for all, to the saints. Not just a “feeling” that “God wouldn’t …” that tickles my fancy.

That’s an old apologetics tactic - disparage any other belief as mere “feelings”, while asserting that Catholicism is the “truth”. Can you prove that your “deposit of faith” is in fact the true, authentic word of God, or do you just feel that it’s true?

You also demonstrate the “appeal to authority” fallacy which is rampant in Catholic apologetics, at least as practiced on this forum. The general form is “the teaching hasn’t changed for 2,000 years, the saints believed it, martyrs died for it, Aquinas and Augustine affirmed it, Benedict wrote about it…therefore it is true”. All of that simply proves that the teaching has been consistently believed, not that it’s true.

I would be careful, though, about how you talk about Catholicism here, Ted. Contempt for Catholicism is a violation of forum rules. I would hate to see you banned as it is clear that you were poorly catechized in the faith that you left and have much to learn. (Transubstantiation is not “magic” at all. I am sorry that you were taught that as a child

Glad that you are here! Read and learn!

Reading and learning (including the Catechism) is what convinced me that many of Catholicism’s claims are not true, or are at least questionable.

 

[Serap]

I posted some parts of the Catechism in post 178 that touch on this. Hope that it helps.

Thanks. It did.

sometimes I wish the moderators would come onto these threads and make corrections so that people like me, don’t get confusing information.