Can people choose to be spriritual and live a loving life?

[jmcrae]

I would say that would vary from person to person, but one example could be that someone had a bad experience with the Church in the past, but still wishes to adore God himself.

Just never know, I would think there would be loads of different types of reasons

Yes - but they are all “my way” and not “God’s way” - it’s like they think they can do anything they want, and God just has to accept it as being “okay” - that God is not allowed to make difficult demands upon them, or require them to do something they don’t feel like doing.

They forget that God is 'the boss". They think that they are the boss, and that God is the customer, or the employee.

 

[mskejj]

I know what you’re talking about. I know many many people who are good, morally upright, generous and kind individuals who are not Catholic, or who are following another religion or who are doing so loosely. I reject the notion that those following other religions, or following another way of life, will be damned to hell on soley those grounds.

I think those who believe in the Church, and who understand the teachings of the Church, but who refuse to follow the teachings due to selfish reasons, or obstinance, will be punished before those who are truly unknowledgeable and truly unbelieving – if they will be punished at all.

Faith is not magic. You’re not going to magically believe just because an outside party tells you to. There are good people in the world, and they’re not all Catholic. In fact, the most miserable and difficult people I have ever known have been Catholic. Being Catholic isn’t a free ticket to heaven you know…

For example, I have a friend who was born and raised Baptist. I’ve never met a kinder person, a more generous person. He lived his life as the Church teaches us to live. He was more “Christian” than any other Catholic I knew or know. But he wasn’t Catholic. And he didn’t attend his church services…but it wasn’t a requirement of his church. He passed away last Easter…there is no doubt in my mind that he is with God. No one can convince me that he went to Hell just because he wasn’t Catholic. And why would he be really? He wasn’t born Catholic, he wasn’t raised Catholic, and as such, he had no interest in it at all. He had his own faith to follow.

Another friend of mine is of the Church of Christ. Same senario. He’s kind, generous, truthful, stands on a high moral plain, taught his kids the same. Well I very seriously doubt that he will be punished just because he’s not Catholic. Why, in fact, would he be? He has his own faith, and follows it like any Catholic is supposed to follow the Catholic faith.

People who have chosen not to follow the faith they were born into don’t believe in those religions, and don’t subscribe to the teachings of that religion. That doesn’t mean that they won’t someday return to their faith. But for whatever reason, they’re not in communion with the religion they were born into. If they aren’t sure what God is, they’re confused about their beliefs. God can’t be the God of Mercy and then smite someone because they’re confused, unknowledgeable and unbelieving. If they’re doing their best to figure it out and haven’t made it quite there yet, it would be the same as spanking a 6 month old for making a mistake. But I guess there are people here that do that … but they’re not God

The Catholic Church does not teach that someone is condemned to hell if they are not Catholic. Why would you think that? To have a better understanding of what the Church actually teaches regarding salvation, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC).

 

[SteveVH]

I know what you’re talking about. I know many many people who are good, morally upright, generous and kind individuals who are not Catholic, or who are following another religion or who are doing so loosely. I reject the notion that those following other religions, or following another way of life, will be damned to hell on soley those grounds.

I think those who believe in the Church, and who understand the teachings of the Church, but who refuse to follow the teachings due to selfish reasons, or obstinance, will be punished before those who are truly unknowledgeable and truly unbelieving – if they will be punished at all.

Faith is not magic. You’re not going to magically believe just because an outside party tells you to. There are good people in the world, and they’re not all Catholic. In fact, the most miserable and difficult people I have ever known have been Catholic. Being Catholic isn’t a free ticket to heaven you know…

For example, I have a friend who was born and raised Baptist. I’ve never met a kinder person, a more generous person. He lived his life as the Church teaches us to live. He was more “Christian” than any other Catholic I knew or know. But he wasn’t Catholic. And he didn’t attend his church services…but it wasn’t a requirement of his church. He passed away last Easter…there is no doubt in my mind that he is with God. No one can convince me that he went to Hell just because he wasn’t Catholic. And why would he be really? He wasn’t born Catholic, he wasn’t raised Catholic, and as such, he had no interest in it at all. He had his own faith to follow.

Another friend of mine is of the Church of Christ. Same senario. He’s kind, generous, truthful, stands on a high moral plain, taught his kids the same. Well I very seriously doubt that he will be punished just because he’s not Catholic. Why, in fact, would he be? He has his own faith, and follows it like any Catholic is supposed to follow the Catholic faith.

People who have chosen not to follow the faith they were born into don’t believe in those religions, and don’t subscribe to the teachings of that religion. That doesn’t mean that they won’t someday return to their faith. But for whatever reason, they’re not in communion with the religion they were born into. If they aren’t sure what God is, they’re confused about their beliefs. God can’t be the God of Mercy and then smite someone because they’re confused, unknowledgeable and unbelieving. If they’re doing their best to figure it out and haven’t made it quite there yet, it would be the same as spanking a 6 month old for making a mistake. But I guess there are people here that do that … but they’re not God

This is nothing more than a strawman which you have built in order to tear down. The Catholic Church has never taught that one is condemned for not being Catholic or that Catholic people are better people than non-Catholics. Every premise you have given is false.
You would do well to learn your own faith.

 

[Ashurie]

Yes - but they are all “my way” and not “God’s way” - it’s like they think they can do anything they want, and God just has to accept it as being “okay” - that God is not allowed to make difficult demands upon them, or require them to do something they don’t feel like doing.

They forget that God is 'the boss". They think that they are the boss, and that God is the customer, or the employee.

Hmm…going by my own experiences with the spiritual people I know - they know God is the almighty Father, they know he rules over us - But unfortunately, I can not say the same for other spiritual people I am aquainted too.

But, you may be surprised how little both spiritual and non-church goers know that Church is a requirement. heck! I didnt know until I began looking more into the Catholic faith.

But those willing to seek more out of God, and go on a spiritual journey, will find their way to the Church, and ultimately make their decision. As I have, and another I know are doing right now. I have seen the development of love to Jesus and God grow in her, and it will only be time that will tell when she will seek out the Church.

this all by my own experiences personally and with friends.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I know people that believe there’s a God and live their life with kindness and compassion. They may have been raised Catholic or Protestant, but have chosen not to follow those faiths. They have chosen to live a good wholesome life knowing that there is a God, but they are not sure what God is.

They believe that all religions pray to the same God, and it’s a shame that so many wars are based on religion. They choose to not have any religion and choose to be spiritual.

Any thougths? Many good people feel this way.

I used to be “spiritual, not religious.” That basically means “I believe in God, but not in Jesus Christ, and I don’t think I have to go to a priest, reverend or church to have a relationship with God. In fact, if I want to talk to God, I’ll talk to him myself----no middle man needed. And yes, all religions lead to God.”

Doesn’t really “work” for me anymore.

 

[PennyinCanada]

I can see how people, with love and compassion they say, would drive a young lady to the abortionist. Or support euthanasia, to lessen someone’s suffering. Or encourage a pregnant lady carrying a spina bifida child to ‘not bring them into the world to suffer’. We need guidance and direction for our love and compassion to be in right order.

 

[thomasf]

My usual response to “can’t you just be a good person and live a good life?”

As Jesus said, there is only one who is good. That’s God in Heaven. How do we know what is ‘good’ without God? Is it ‘good’ to give money to the guy at the freeway exit with the sign? Is it ‘good’ to not speed on the highway? Pay your taxes on time? Feed a stray cat? Without God, who decides what is ‘good’? We do, as individuals. And knowing man’s sinful nature, one can talk himself into thinking just about anything is ‘good’. My sister thinks that ‘good’ means posting articles to her facebook about how horrible the republicans are and that Jesus was a liberal.

We are not called to love God and try to imitate Jesus, follow him, repent, and become holier. Without God, how can we do this? If we rely on ourselves then we will surely fall short.

One can have hope that those who don’t know God can find salvation. But as Jesus tells us, HE is the way.

 

[Serap]

Yes - but they are all “my way” and not “God’s way” - it’s like they think they can do anything they want, and God just has to accept it as being “okay” - that God is not allowed to make difficult demands upon them, or require them to do something they don’t feel like doing.

They forget that God is 'the boss". They think that they are the boss, and that God is the customer, or the employee.

This is false. Many spritual people I know pray and do God’s will. They discern what God wants and follow God.

They do not follow any organized religion, but follow the steps of every good Christian in terms of prayer and following God’s will.

 

[Serap]

My usual response to “can’t you just be a good person and live a good life?”

As Jesus said, there is only one who is good. That’s God in Heaven. How do we know what is ‘good’ without God? Is it ‘good’ to give money to the guy at the freeway exit with the sign? Is it ‘good’ to not speed on the highway? Pay your taxes on time? Feed a stray cat? Without God, who decides what is ‘good’? We do, as individuals. And knowing man’s sinful nature, one can talk himself into thinking just about anything is ‘good’. My sister thinks that ‘good’ means posting articles to her facebook about how horrible the republicans are and that Jesus was a liberal.

We are not called to love God and try to imitate Jesus, follow him, repent, and become holier. Without God, how can we do this? If we rely on ourselves then we will surely fall short.

One can have hope that those who don’t know God can find salvation. But as Jesus tells us, HE is the way.

If a spiritual person prays for discernment, they will know what is right an what is wrong in their heart. They know it’s wrong to inflict any kind of pain onto another person. They know it’s the right think to treat an other as they would like to be treated.

As for someone mentioning abortion, etc. I know of Protestant denominations that would do the same.

 

[PRmerger]

Some spiritualists are content to just to let God know that they do love him, and believe in him, for he is our creator, and there is no denying it - he is our Father.

This is curious, Ashurie.

How do you know that God is a “father”? That is a Judeo-Christian revelation. No other spiritual paradigms every conceived of such a radical notion.

Do you accept some Judeo Christian concepts but not others? If so, how do you know what’s truly part of God’s nature and what’s something you have simply projected onto Him?

That is, how do you know that you haven’t created a god in your own image?

 

[jmcrae]

This is false. Many spritual people I know pray and do God’s will. They discern what God wants and follow God.

They do not follow any organized religion, but follow the steps of every good Christian in terms of prayer and following God’s will.

I keep hearing that, but I haven’t actually seen it in real life.

I have listened as many people told me, “I am a good person. I am spiritual, but not religious.” And then, without fail, they steal a small amount of money from someone who “won’t miss it,” or they shoplift a small item from a convenience store, or they offer to read my tarot cards, or they tell a young woman that she should give in to her boyfriend and have sex with him, or they offer to share a toke with a teenager, because “you only live once.”



I have yet to meet a spiritual person without religion, who did not sin, or who did not entice others to sin - all the while calling themselves “good.”

 

[Ashurie]

This is curious, Ashurie.

How do you know that God is a “father”? That is a Judeo-Christian revelation. No other spiritual paradigms every conceived of such a radical notion.

Do you accept some Judeo Christian concepts but not others? If so, how do you know what’s truly part of God’s nature and what’s something you have simply projected onto Him?

That is, how do you know that you haven’t created a god in your own image?

On a personal basis, my spirituality began and stems from Judeo-Christian concepts, which comes no surprise to me that I wish to seek more about God and Jesus in the CC, I am learning more and more about Jesus and his teachings and of course accepting them. Also the “father” thing, really can’t explain it, he has always been the “father” and “creator” to me.

I have always and only worshipped God, but kept it as a spiritual way due to my family’s stance on religion - therefore had to keep it private. But now that I have moved out of home, I am free to join a church if I wish, and deepen my relationship with God and learn more about Jesus.

I believe it was the workings of the Archangels who introduced me to God, Jesus and I shouldn’t forget Mother Mary. I sought out the Archangels at the very beginning of my spiritual journey, at first for protection - I had a very horrible nightmare which shook me up so much. I had to look for prayers for my guardian angel and Archangel Michael, writing them down and placing them under my pillow, before going back to sleep. And since, I have had a spiritual connection with the Angels. I think it was to ease me into having a relationship with God and Jesus, as I didn’t have one earlier, taking baby steps with me accepting the angels and then down the line ultimately God.

Hope that clears something’s up.

 

[CMatt25]

I tend to agree with this. Many here state that someone is in mortal sin if they are given the truth (grew up a Catholic) and then choose not to be a Catholic anymore. They are in mortal sin for various reasons like being openly gay, cohabitating, etc., despite how kind hearted and giving they are as a person.

I just don’t buy it.

Serap, I don’t buy it either. And here’s why I have difficulty buying it.

You said the person in your OP lives their life in kindness and compassion.

And when Jesus asked how to possess eternal life, here is what He said.

Luke 10:25 And behold a certain lawyer stood up, tempting him, and saying, Master, what must I do to possess eternal life? 26But he said to him: What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said to him: Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

In Matt 22:36-40 He tells us love makes up the 2 greatest commandments. In Matt 18 to be humble. In Matt 7:5 to concern ourselves with our own specks.

In Matt 7:12 He spoke of the Golden Rule. And in Matt 25:31-46 He gave examples of those showing compassion for the less fortunate receiving eternal life.

Take your dear spiritual mother. She prays. God understands. And God knows her heart.

God bless her along with you, your husband and your “ballerina” and “Charlie Brown”.
Peace.

 

[PRmerger]

On a personal basis, my spirituality began and stems from Judeo-Christian concepts, which comes no surprise to me that I wish to seek more about God and Jesus in the CC, I am learning more and more about Jesus and his teachings and of course accepting them.

Yes. It is from Jesus that you know that God is your father. You would not know that any other way.

Also the “father” thing, really can’t explain it, he has always been the “father” and “creator” to me.

As far as an inexplicable knowledge of God–one must be very, very careful about this. If this is the basis for your acceptance of theology, then you cannot object to someone saying, "I can’t explain it, but I really feel that God wants me to hate all <fill in a race/ethnicity here>.

If this is your paradigm (that someone just “knows” about God) then this allows for some very very perverted and horrific personifications of god.

 

[Ashurie]

As far as an inexplicable knowledge of God–one must be very, very careful about this. If this is the basis for your acceptance of theology, then you cannot object to someone saying, "I can’t explain it, but I really feel that God wants me to hate all <fill in a race/ethnicity here>.

If this is your paradigm (that someone just “knows” about God) then this allows for some very very perverted and horrific personifications of god.

I am very careful when saying that, don’t worry. I would normally search for a reason, especially if it’s on hating - that I avoid, as I try to respect other people for who they are. And if I do hate them, it has to be on a personal basis with myself only, and they would have had to done something really bad.

 

[PRmerger]

I am very careful when saying that, don’t worry.

I’m sorry. I’m not understanding. What is it that you are very careful about saying?

I would normally search for a reason, especially if it’s on hating - that I avoid, as I try to respect other people for who they are. And if I do hate them, it has to be on a personal basis with myself only, and they would have had to done something really bad.

 

[Ashurie]

I’m sorry. I’m not understanding. What is it that you are very careful about saying?

Like I wouldn’t say “I feel that God wants me to hate…”, I would honestly say that, nor put anyone into that position. If that makes sense. If I hate (which takes a lot for me), it would be my decision alone. Really hope that makes sense.

 

[PRmerger]

Like I wouldn’t say “I feel that God wants me to hate…”, I would honestly say that, nor put anyone into that position. If that makes sense. If I hate (which takes a lot for me), it would be my decision alone. Really hope that makes sense.

Oh, it does make sense. And I respect that.

But does what I say make sense to you? If you can say, “I just feel God wants me to believe that He is _______” then why can’t another person say, “Well, I just feel God wants me to hate ______.”

If that’s the criterion you use for determining what God is–how you feel about Him–then the other person is just as free to formulate a belief that God wants him to hate certain people.

 

[Ashurie]

Oh, it does make sense. And I respect that.

But does what I say make sense to you? If you can say, “I just feel God wants me to believe that He is _______” then why can’t another person say, “Well, I just feel God wants me to hate ______.”

If that’s the criterion you use for determining what God is–how you feel about Him–then the other person is just as free to formulate a belief that God wants him to hate certain people.

I am not too sure, if I have used God in that context, and if I have, I apologise.

Personally, I wouldn’t use Him in either way - personally, like other people may, but I wouldn’t. Instead, I would personally say something like, “I feel this is the correct way for me, it must be a sign.” or “My heart says this…”. I have said this earlier on, I got very much on gut instincts - most of the time, listening to it has become true. Like, last year, my Uni established a new teaching course - I saw it, and it was bugging me so much, that I applied, and once I did, I was content. I know it might sound strange, but I hope you are understanding what I am explaining - cos I am normally terrible at it xD

I think others just use God as an excuse to do what they wish and get away with it. I just think “what the heck?”, but remember that’s what they believe then okay…as crazy as it may seem so be it, even if I do not agree with it, I remember that’s what they actually believe. And I do pray that God can help them sometime soon.

 

[lily20]

Hi Serap,

I used to believe that too: that all religions pray to the same god, but it’s just not true. I know because my husband and I recently discovered that we have different gods. He rejects the god of abraham and jesus, and prays to the universe and his own psychic abilities. also, in buddhism there is no god, only “being.” so I was shocked to discover this.

I think, be careful when at first thinking someone believes in the same god as you, because for you, it seems that way. it’s not always true. that’s why jesus cautions against “false prophets” and “idolatry.” there’s good reasons for these warnings.

anyway, so for christian religions it is the same god, unless it’s some sort of cult.

Lily