Can people choose to be spriritual and live a loving life?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Serap
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
CMatt25 said:
Unsure why you think the passage about the Pharisees is relevant here unless you’re somehow linking me to them.
Click to expand...
It was a totally random verse choice, Matt. Point being made was that we cannot take the verse that we walk by faith and not by sight without taking into account ALL of the Word.
 
PRmerger said:
That’s irrelevant. I don’t know anything about him either, really. It’s not even really about him anyway. I’m talking about a paradigm you’re espousing that if someone is striving to be faithful to God, and prays and studies, and is sincere…whatever he proclaims may be just as valid as anyone else.** If you cannot proclaim that Fred Phelps and his hateful venom is WRONG, then, sadly, your paradigm is of no use in proclaiming the Gospel. **

Yet, if you do maintain that his message is wrong, how do you respond when he tells you, “Well, Matt, I have searched the Scriptures and prayed–just like you. I have a sincere heart–just like you. I love God–just like you. And this is what my prayer and readings and study tell me: God hates homosexuals.” (Except, of course, he’d use a more odious term.)
Click to expand...
I respond with you are entitled to your beliefs about homosexuals Mr Phelps though I certainly do not agree with or share them. To the degree he is receptive, I may try to offer reasons why. Just as we do here on CAF when we disagree. 🙂 But in the end I may have to agree to disagree. In faith he, like you and I, PRMerger, must answer to God. And it is God who will know the heart when that time comes.
 
CMatt25 said:
I respond with you are entitled to your beliefs about homosexuals Mr Phelps though I certainly do not agree with or share them. To the degree he is receptive, I may try to offer reasons why. Just as we do here on CAF when we disagree. 🙂 But in the end I may have to agree to disagree. In faith he, like you and I, PRMerger, must answer to God. And it is God who will know the heart when that time comes.
Click to expand...
That is fair.

Yet, I suppose, a homosexual may find your paradigm rather, well, lame.

While I am not a homosexual, I am a minority here in the US and if I may change the analogy here a bit.

If there were 3 of us in in a room: you, me and a Fred Phelps-like character who, rather than directing his hate at homosexuals directed it at me and my race…

and Fred Phelps2 says that the Bible proclaims that is going to hell, and you said, “well, I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree”, I think I would slap you, in addition to Fred Phelps2. :mad:
 
PRmerger said:
That is fair.

Yet, I suppose, a homosexual may find your paradigm rather, well, lame.

While I am not a homosexual, I am a minority here in the US and if I may change the analogy here a bit.

If there were 3 of us in in a room: you, me and a Fred Phelps-like character who, rather than directing his hate at homosexuals directed it at me and my race…

and Fred Phelps2 says that the Bible proclaims that is going to hell, and you said, “well, I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree”, I think I would slap you, in addition to Fred Phelps2. :mad:
Click to expand...
PR, hmmm. I don’t know about that if the homosexual or you knew me.

But what do you want me to do? Punch Mr Phelps in the eye? And not sure what you want me to do with you other than to agree with you on everything. 😛 At some point we simply may have to agree to disagree.

But your analogy is somewhat interesting since I’ve also seen it said here on CAF that you can not compare homosexuality to race. But let us not derail the thread by getting onto these topics.
 
TedDC said:
Whoa - hold it right there! For that conclusion to be valid, you need proof for the Bible’s assertion that Jesus was the son of God, or God Himself. That is not an insignificant bit of “history” - it is the entire foundation of Christianity. How does the Bible reliably document Jesus’s divinity?
Click to expand...
Christ is true God Jn 1:1; 5:18; 8:58; 20:28; Phil 2:6; Col 1:15-19; 2:9; Tit 2:13
 
TedDC said:
How do you know any of that is true?
Click to expand...
You asked, “How does the Bible reliably document Jesus’s divinity?”
I showed you.
I know it is true because I believe what God revealed.
Why are you no longer Catholic?
 
TedDC said:
How do you know any of that is true?
Click to expand...
Ted, you are getting to be a Johnny-One-Note.

It’s a bit impolite to only post questions, and to not answer those posed to you.

Where is it, if not from your feelings, that you get your beliefs regarding God from? If it’s not the Church, and it’s not Scripture, from whence do they come?
 
PRmerger said:
Ted, you are getting to be a Johnny-One-Note.

It’s a bit impolite to only post questions, and to not answer those posed to you.

Where is it, if not from your feelings, that you get your beliefs regarding God from? If it’s not the Church, and it’s not Scripture, from whence do they come?
Click to expand...
From my conscience; I believe God speaks to each of us if we’re willing to listen.
 
TedDC said:
From my conscience; I believe God speaks to each of us if we’re willing to listen.
Click to expand...
Then why, rather than start a Church, didn’t Jesus just teach us to follow our conscience? And I disagree that you have gathered your knowledge of God strictly through your conscience. It was handed down to you and then you have chosen to pick this and throw away that. If all we were suppose to do is follow our conscience, the Bible should have been one sentence long.
 
SteveVH said:
Then why, rather than start a Church, didn’t Jesus just teach us to follow our conscience? And I disagree that you have gathered your knowledge of God strictly through your conscience. It was handed down to you and then you have chosen to pick this and throw away that. If all we were suppose to do is follow our conscience, the Bible should have been one sentence long.
Click to expand...
The conscience can certainly be informed by the wisdom of others. There’s a great deal of wisdom in Church teachings, and they certainly influenced the development of my conscience, and continue to do so. But as I mentioned previously, I do not believe the Bible is an inerrant record of God’s relationship with man. No one has presented any proof that it is. The Bible, and everything taught by the Catholic Church - indeed by any church - are ultimately the imperfect products of fallible men.
 
CMatt25 said:
But what do you want me to do? Punch Mr Phelps in the eye?
Click to expand...
:blackeye:

That’s a thought that puts a smile on my face.

Kidding. Kind of.

I suppose you are being consistent at least, and yes, you really could not tell a Mr. Phelps, an Adolph Hitler, or any racist homophobic philandering nincompoop that he’s wrong.

It’s just a lame POV, as the potential recipient of such an attack.
But your analogy is somewhat interesting since I’ve also seen it said here on CAF that you can not compare homosexuality to race.
Click to expand...
I am not comparing homosexuality to race. I thought that I said I wanted to change the analogy–didn’t I?

Yes, I did. I just checked my post.
 
PRmerger said:
I suppose you are being consistent at least, and yes, you really could not tell a Mr. Phelps, an Adolph Hitler, or any racist homophobic philandering nincompoop that he’s wrong.
Click to expand...
No PRMerger, I could tell him I believe he’s wrong. I’m just not going to beat the guy up over it and pluck his eyes out. At some point I agree to disagree.
 
CMatt25 said:
No PRMerger, I could tell him I believe he’s wrong.
Click to expand...
But don’t you see! In your paradigm you* cannot tell him he’s wrong! He will simply throw your paradigm back in your face and rightly say, "You cannot tell me I’m wrong, for I’m using the very same method you are*. I pray. I study. I discern in my heart what God is telling me."

This is exactly why your paradigm is so wrong, Matt. It leaves room for odious spewings in the name of “prayerful reflection.”

You would not be able to defend a homosexual in a room with Fred Phelps.

What use is your paradigm, then, I respectfully ask?
 
TedDC said:
The conscience can certainly be informed by the wisdom of others. There’s a great deal of wisdom in Church teachings, and they certainly influenced the development of my conscience, and continue to do so. But as I mentioned previously, I do not believe the Bible is an inerrant record of God’s relationship with man. No one has presented any proof that it is. The Bible, and everything taught by the Catholic Church - indeed by any church - are ultimately the imperfect products of fallible men.
Click to expand...
Ted, you and I both. But as to “proof”, I’ve only been able to conclude some folks perhaps just have more of a need to think they “know”. Others are content in accepting the truth that we humans have finite minds. And that in matters of faith and belief, “proof” is somewhat of an oxymoron. But different strokes for different folks I suppose. God bless you and peace.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top