Can priests be women?

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FrRobSST:
You know, I keep hearing that argument posited… but in those Churches that have begun ordaining women, the attendence numbers have signifcantly dropped.
Rob+
That is a good point, but I would like to know what the real correlation is since I also hear that mass attendance has significantly dropped. One could just as well suggest the possibility that this is because we don’t have female leaders…

It is interesting that people avow things like “…the church is protected by the Holy Spirit…” (who was, in the early church, of feminine essence) and “…the gates of hell shall not prevail…” and yet they refuse to believe the church could survive with women sharing the priestly duties. Sounds like pretty weak faith…
 
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patg:
That is a good point, but I would like to know what the real correlation is since I also hear that mass attendance has significantly dropped. One could just as well suggest the possibility that this is because we don’t have female leaders…

It is interesting that people avow things like “…the church is protected by the Holy Spirit…” (who was, in the early church, of feminine essence) and “…the gates of hell shall not prevail…” and yet they refuse to believe the church could survive with women sharing the priestly duties. Sounds like pretty weak faith…
Actually, rejecting the authority of the Pope, given by Christ, shows weak faith.
 
The Church does not have the authority to ordain women as priests!
 
patg said:
"…the church is protected by the Holy Spirit…" (who was, in the early church, of feminine essence) and …

Feminine essence??? Where the heck did you get that?

When the Spirit is mentioned in the Bible, the masculine pronoun is used:

John 16:13,14 - “He,” the Spirit of Truth, will guide you into all truth, and “He” (the Spirit) will glorify Me (Jesus). (“Spirit” here is neuter in Greek, yet “He” in both cases is from the masculine demonstrative pronoun eknos.)

Ephesians 1:13,14 - The Holy Spirit “who” is the guarantee of our inheritance . This is a masculine pronoun referring to the neuter “Spirit.”
 
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Brendan:
Feminine essence??? Where the heck did you get that?
From every early church history I have read - I’ll find you some references.
 
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Ignatius:
The Church does not have the authority to ordain women as priests!
Neither is the authority denied. But saying this allows the leaders to sidestep really addressing the issue.
 
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fix:
Actually, rejecting the authority of the Pope, given by Christ, shows weak faith.
So I guess you’re saying we’re both of weak faith. What the pope says about women has nothing to do with my relationship with and faith in God.
 
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patg:
What the pope says about women has nothing to do with my relationship with and faith in God.
The Pope has everything to do with all Catholics’ relationship with their fath and with God. Jesus said Peter is the Rock, and that on the Rock the Church would be built, and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. He also said “whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

The issue is settled. Why are some so insistant that women become priests? They are like kids who whine to their parents when they don’t get what they want. Women aren’t called to the priesthood- there are plenty of reasons why. Women tend to be more emotional, women tend to have more trouble keeping confidences- just to name a few. These are things I’ve heard many women say (more women than men, actually), so this isn’t me being sexist- it is the observation of many women. Just because women can’t do everything that men can do doesn’t mean they don’t have a role in the Church that is equally important and dignified to the role of men.

Here is an example: when doctors are doing open-heart surgery, the anesthesiologist keeps the patient alive and comfortable, by keeping the medicine going to keep them unconscious, and by operating the heart/lung machine to keep them alive. The surgeon repairs the problem that required the surgery. They’re both equally important in carrying out the procedure. They have two different roles that work together to get the job done. Men and women can be seen the same way- they have different roles that compliment each other to get the job done.

Michael Evans
 
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patg:
Neither is the authority denied.
It was most certainly denied!
I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.
-Ordinatio Sacerdotalis

An Ordination is conferral of Authority. The Church cannot confer Authority that it does not have.
 
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huskerfan:
Jesus chose all men as his disciples. The priest is the father of the local church and the Pope is the father of the Catholic church. What part don’t people get?
I suppose they like to ask DUMB questions!
 
i understand completely that men and women have completely different, yet compadible and complimentary roles in the church. this is the way it has functioned for thousands of years. it is understandable, Jesus only took men as his disciples. he held mary his mother and mary magdelene in high esteem, respected them and what they said, but they were not disciples . no problem there. the part i dont get is what is wrong with girls being alter servers??? they are not reading the gospel, leading the mass, ect. i really dont see a problem with this, but i would greatly appriciate and explanation as to why some people do. just because of tradition? in that case, in the roman rite are women allowed to be deacons? sry if i sound like im questioning the dogma, im not, just trying to understand.
 
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luvthelight:
iit is understandable, Jesus only took men as his disciples. he held mary his mother and mary magdelene in high esteem, respected them and what they said, but they were not disciples .
He only took men as Apostles;, women, including all the Mary’s, Martha etc… were disciples as well. The is a difference between the two. It was the Apostles only who were at the Last Supper, and only they received the authority to forgive sins, conduct the Mass etc…
. the part i dont get is what is wrong with girls being alter servers??? .
There is nothing liturgically wrong with female altar servers.
This issue comes with vocations. Altar service has traditionally been an excellent source of introduction to the priestly life.

Having girls involved reduces both the chance and the desire for boys to become altar servers and does have significant impact on future vocations.
 
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patg:
The Church does not have the authority to ordain women as priests!
Neither is the authority denied.
Better read that papal responsum again. The statement was in direct answer to the subject question. The answer was that the Church does not have the authority to do so. It is not sidestepping; it is, in fact a stronger statement. In other words, even if someone went through the motions, it would have no effect. Kind of like if an invalid Eucharistic consecration was done; it would not confect the Body and Blood of Christ.
 
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jeffreedy789:
i would also strongly contend with the notion that this doctrine is based on outmoded ‘gender oppressive’ theology…
As a man, I surely cannot experience the depths of indignation that a woman might feel about this matter. But, I felt a calling to become a priest and I was summarily dismissed every time I went to the rectory to discuss this with whomever was the pastor.

So, being a man does not convey any right or privilege to become a priest. And, being a woman does not, similarly, withhold any right or privilege to become a priest.

My only dream in life was to become a holy priest and to serve. And, my life has been disorganized with little purpose as a result of being frustrated from doing so.

I have learned a personal lesson of trusting in God. Our ways are not His ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts. If the Church has botched the gender issue, men will certainly pay for this in eternity.

We all should talk about this, of course. It’s not a dead issue entirely. It leads us into thinking more about our personal lives and God’s purposes. And, it should also lead us into thinking more about the priesthood and its responsibilities.

We should focus, in my view, on the roles of men AND women in the Church. I think that should be what Vatican III should be about-- the role of lay evangelization. And, because of the demographics in many countries like the U.S., Vatican III should talk about the responsibilities of the senior Catholic members of the Church e.g. what have you heard lately about taking care of widows and orphans and the poor, lately?
 
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psalm90:
As a man, I surely cannot experience the depths of indignation that a woman might feel about this matter. But, I felt a calling to become a priest and I was summarily dismissed every time I went to the rectory to discuss this with whomever was the pastor.

So, being a man does not convey any right or privilege to become a priest. And, being a woman does not, similarly, withhold any right or privilege to become a priest.

My only dream in life was to become a holy priest and to serve. And, my life has been disorganized with little purpose as a result of being frustrated from doing so.

I have learned a personal lesson of trusting in God. Our ways are not His ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts. If the Church has botched the gender issue, men will certainly pay for this in eternity.

We all should talk about this, of course. It’s not a dead issue entirely. It leads us into thinking more about our personal lives and God’s purposes. And, it should also lead us into thinking more about the priesthood and its responsibilities.

We should focus, in my view, on the roles of men AND women in the Church. I think that should be what Vatican III should be about-- the role of lay evangelization. And, because of the demographics in many countries like the U.S., Vatican III should talk about the responsibilities of the senior Catholic members of the Church e.g. what have you heard lately about taking care of widows and orphans and the poor, lately?
Vatican III? You must be joking. Vat II was hijacked and still we hear all manner of nonsense coming from the clergy and laity.

As for widows and orphans, I hear plenty about it. In fact, even our neo pagan culture knows about these things. What we do not hear about is obeying the moral law, particularly on matters of human sexulaity.

The Church has done a good job in conveying the importance of helping the poor. What has not been done is to catechize folks and explain the imperative of obeying the moral law. This deficit has brought us so much suffering and loss of souls that many have left the Church.
 
Jesus chose all men as his disciples.
That’s a very weak argument. Jesus chose only Jewish men to be his disciples, would you say that only Jewish men can be ordained as priests? Jesus did choose women, many of them and he taught them and treated them as equals. He couldn’t allow them to become disciples because of attitudes towards women at that time, it would seriously hinder his mission as men would have been outraged that women, “second class citizens”, dared to try to teach them anything. If you read the New Testament, when Jesus was crucified the only followers who stayed at the foot of his cross were women when all the other disciples had scarpered, they stayed even though the punishment could have been death. Jesus allowed women to fund his mission, he compared God to a woman baking bread, he healed women and brought them back from the dead.

One could argue that the first Apostle was a woman, when Jesus rose from the dead the first person he came to was Mary Magdalene, he told her to spread the word of that he had risen. Why did Jesus reveal himself to a woman first?

I personally feel that God made us all equally in his own image, he loves us all equally, so I don’t see why a woman who wants to serve God cannot become a priest and help spread the word of God? Especially since there is a shortage of priests at the moment. There is evidence in the early Church of Female priests, bishops, deconesses and even the legend that is Pope Joan.
When women one day decided that they wanted independance and didn’t want to get married and be second to a man, they decided to stay consecrated Virgins. St Augustine and other church leaders saw this and they were afraid so they said it goes against nature and brought out strict rules for the woman who chooses to be a consecrated virgin and there you have it, a Nun!

If a woman was ordained I would rejoice knowing that the Church has finally accepted us all as neither man nor woman but human beings. I do not believe in gender roles.
Just because women can’t do everything that men can do
I’m sorry but you sound very sexist and sound like you’ve just stepped out of the 19th century. In todays world women are doctors, educators, politicians, leaders. If women can be responsible for lives, for the ruling of whole countries, why can they not be priests?

Oh wait I’m sorry, we’re all silly little girls, God doesn’t think enough of us to trust us with his word and we’re not important enough.

I think we should stop listening to most of the theologians of the past, I mean Thomas Aquinas said women were imperfect and were only produced in the womb as a result of a “southerley wind”, I kid you not. Girls, we are a result of weather pollution! St Augustine couldn’t even stay in the same room as a woman without thinking about how much he wanted to have sex with her, even his own sister for goodness sake. Both of them are mysoginists, you only have to read their work to realise this. To think these two men formed the theories about sexual morality and a womans place that are part of the Church’s teaching today makes me so angry.
Quite apart from the implicit contradiction, it posits that Jesus Christ, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, was constrained in his decisions about choosing his apostles.
Please actually bother to pick up a history book and read about how women were treated at that time and draw up your own conclusions about what would have happened to a woman who dared to try and talk about God in front of a man.
 
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Harriet:
One could argue that the first Apostle was a woman, when Jesus rose from the dead the first person he came to was Mary Magdalene, he told her to spread the word of that he had risen. Why did Jesus reveal himself to a woman first?
And Christ was born of the greatest woman ever, Mary. But that does not mean that Mary was an Apostle.

Where is Mary of Magdala, or any other female, refereed to as an Apostle. Was she there at the Last Supper, we the Apostles were charged with the authority to say Mass. Was she there in John 20:23 when Christ gave the power to forgive sin.

If she didn’t have the Authority to do either of those, what kind of priest would Mary be? Unable to say Mass or hear Confessions!
I personally feel that God made us all equally in his own image, he loves us all equally, so I don’t see why a woman who wants to serve God cannot become a priest and help spread the word of God?
Does ‘equal’ mean ‘identical’. God gave females the ability to bring new life into the world. He gave the same to men. To the female the ability to bring in a new creation of God, a new soul. To males, he gave the ability to bring in new Spiritual life.

Humans are creatures of both flesh and spirit, it’s what sets us apart from the angels. Through both the female and the male flesh and spirit are brought into the world and united. neither one is more important, and neither one could be done without the other. Our roles are therefore equal, complementary and necessary.

Proof that God did create us equal.
. I do not believe in gender roles.
Really? so you don’t believe in Motherhood? You don’t believe a particular sex can bear children, that both may do so equally?
I’m sorry but you sound very sexist and sound like you’ve just stepped out of the 19th century. In todays world women are doctors, educators, politicians, leaders. If women can be responsible for lives, for the ruling of whole countries, why can they not be priests?
Can a woman father a child? If not, that right there is an example of something a man can do that a woman cannot, (thus proving his statement)
Please actually bother to pick up a history book and read about how women were treated at that time and draw up your own conclusions about what would have happened to a woman who dared to try and talk about God in front of a man.
Like who? St. Catherine of Sienna, St. Theresa of Avila? St.Barbara. They all talked about God to men and they were Canonized!!
 
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Harriet:
I think we should stop listening to most of the theologians of the past, I mean Thomas Aquinas said women were imperfect and were only produced in the womb as a result of a “southerley wind”, I kid you not. Girls, we are a result of weather pollution! St Augustine couldn’t even stay in the same room as a woman without thinking about how much he wanted to have sex with her, even his own sister for goodness sake. Both of them are mysoginists, you only have to read their work to realise this. To think these two men formed the theories about sexual morality and a womans place that are part of the Church’s teaching today makes me so angry.
Such logic? I think we should stop listening to modernists, liberated nuns, effete heterodox priests and those who place themselves above the Church. I know it is a very novel idea, but we should really consider it.
Please actually bother to pick up a history book and read about how women were treated at that time and draw up your own conclusions about what would have happened to a woman who dared to try and talk about God in front of a man.
I have read your thoughts. I have drawn several conclusions. Does that mean my opinion is objectively accurate?
 
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