Can raped girls abort?

[thecross]

If Saint Joseph didn’t accept Mary into his home as his wife, Mary could have been acussed of being raped. We know that Jesus was there at conception; when Elizebeth greeted Mary, Saint John responded in reconition of the Son of God in Mary. Blessed life must be protected at all means. Saint Joseph adopted Jesus, its a great idea.

 

[jmcrae]

I am neither anti Catholic,nor pro-abortion…
For example…there was a case where a woman found out she had cancer…I saw it on television…a long time ago…I no longer watch televsion
She was already pregnant, but the cancer treatment she needed would cause the baby to die…she choose to not get treatment…and her baby lived …but she died…THey took the baby out early , as the mother was not going to make it til 9 mons…but its what she wanted…I dont know how her husband felt about it…but I guess he had no say…Im sure he would have rather had his wife than the baby with no wife…

You are thinking of St. Gianna Molla. Her husband understood her reasons. He named the child after her, and the child and her father were present when she was Canonized by Pope John Paul II - the first married woman to be canonized in the modern era.

 

[jpk1313]

They did not choose to become pregnant, they are just innocent victims…Is it okay for a rapped girl to have an abortion?

Just becuse the father is a compleat bastard that is no reason to murder a baby. If the girl does not want it give it up for adoption there are many couples out there who do want it.

 

[Highwayhound]

You are thinking of St. Gianna Molla. Her husband understood her reasons. He named the child after her, and the child and her father were present when she was Canonized by Pope John Paul II - the first married woman to be canonized in the modern era.

If anyone is interested this video tells the tale of St. Gianna Molla

St. Gianna is very brave.

 

[Rence]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rence
I’ll forward it to my instructor, but I have a feeling that by the words, “In addition, it may” will probably not change anything. It looks like their really not sure what the secondary effects might be despite the primary effect being to prevent ovulation. Primary: inhibits ovulation; Secondary: not sure, but might. Rather, the literature is strewn with “will not terminate an existing pregnancy” and “acts to prevent conception” as you see in the link you provided. I guess it’ll just depend on the ER one goes to. But I’ll forward it.

If your instructor is not a pro life person, they will likely tell you that life begins at implantation.

She said, " If a egg hasn’t implanted then the person is not pregnant." And that corresponds to the federal guidelines, and the medical experts including the ACOG, that pregnancy is determined to be at the point of implantation.

So, the choice to either take plan B in the case of a rape, (or not) will depend on when you believe pregnancy begins. If you believe pregnancy begins at the moment of conception, as the Church teaches, you may not consider plan B (except maybe if you’re of sound enough mind at the time of crisis to remember where in your cycle you are). But those who are not Catholic, not Christian, or who go with the medical experts on when pregnancy begins, will probably not hesitate to take Plan B in the case of a rape.

 

[that_name]

She said, " If a egg hasn’t implanted then the person is not pregnant." And that corresponds to the federal guidelines, and the medical experts including the ACOG, that pregnancy is determined to be at the point of implantation.

So, the choice to either take plan B in the case of a rape, (or not) will depend on when you believe pregnancy begins. If you believe pregnancy begins at the moment of conception, as the Church teaches, you may not consider plan B (except maybe if you’re of sound enough mind at the time of crisis to remember where in your cycle you are). But those who are not Catholic, not Christian, or who go with the medical experts on when pregnancy begins, will probably not hesitate to take Plan B in the case of a rape.

How sad, that this person is instructing the nurses who will give care - teaching them that it is okay to kill babies.

 

[Rence]

If your instructor is not a pro life person, they will likely tell you that life begins at implantation.

It is difficult to stand strong as a Christian in the anti-life world of health care. Please, find strength with the Assn of Pro Life Nurses nursesforlife.org/

How sad, that this person is instructing the nurses who will give care - teaching them that it is okay to kill babies.

Actually, no she’s not :nope: She would never do that. We never discussed abortion or contraception beyond the basics because it is expected of us to have answers to questions regarding abortion or contraception when asked. She answered my question according to the manufacterer’s literature, as well as the teachings of the the ACOG and the medical experts. She did not advocate or condemn either way, and that’s not her job. Her job is to answer questions based on scientific knowledge. It’s up to the CC to pass its teachings to its members and make sure they understand such teachings so that they can choose to obey them.

 

[that_name]

Actually, no she’s not :nope: She would never do that. We never discussed abortion or contraception beyond the basics because it is expected of us to have answers to questions regarding abortion or contraception when asked. She answered my question according to the manufacterer’s literature, as well as the teachings of the the ACOG and the medical experts. She did not advocate or condemn either way, and that’s not her job. Her job is to answer questions based on scientific knowledge. It’s up to the CC to pass its teachings to its members and make sure they understand such teachings so that they can choose to obey them.

So, based on her “expert scientific” advice, what is the thing that has been concieved and not yet implanted? If this is not a human, is it a kangaroo? A boxing glove? A figment of the imagination?

 

[Rence]

So, based on her “expert scientific” advice, what is the thing that has been concieved and not yet implanted? If this is not a human, is it a kangaroo? A boxing glove? A figment of the imagination?

I don’t know, I didn’t ask her that. I didn’t ask her for her “expert scientific” advice either. I asked her to clarify the literature on Plan B. My instructor does not give us her “expert scientific” advice. She teaches the curriculum of the University, as that’s her job. Why are you so hostile?

But I can tell you what the AOCG says. I hope the following answers what you are asking me:

*When Is a Woman Pregnant?
To be sure, not every act of intercourse results in a pregnancy. First, ovulation (i.e., the monthly release of a woman’s egg) must occur. Then, the egg must be fertilized. Fertilization describes the process by which a single sperm gradually penetrates the layers of an egg to form a new cell (“zygote”). This usually occurs in the fallopian tubes and can take up to 24 hours. There is only a short window during which an egg can be fertilized. If fertilization does not occur during that time, the egg dissolves and then hormonal changes trigger menstruation; however, if fertilization does occur, the zygote divides and differentiates into a “preembryo” while being carried down the fallopian tube toward the uterus. Implantation of the preembryo in the uterine lining begins about five days after fertilization. Implantation can be completed as early as eight days or as late as 18 days after fertilization, but usually takes about 14 days. Between one-third and one-half of all fertilized eggs never fully implant. A pregnancy is considered to be established only after implantation is complete.

Source: American College of Obstetricans and Gynecologists*.

 

[that_name]

As a staunchly pro life person, I become angry and a little ill every time I read that medical professionals deny life begins at conception.

Again, I hope you will join Nurses For Life and work to change the world!

 

[Rence]

As a staunchly pro life person, I become angry and a little ill every time I read that medical professionals deny life begins at conception.

Again, I hope you will join Nurses For Life and work to change the world!

Yeah, I guess you wouldn’t get upset if you didn’t care. And thank you

 

[Highwayhound]

Ooops! I forgot to include the link to the video

Here is the link to the video about St. Gianna Molla

youtube.com/watch?v=_jGDyOkQ3yE

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

I’ve followed your link and I’m a bit confused about this group. I don’t know if it is an organization formally affiliated with the Catholic Church - I have my doubts. I tried to email the group but I wasn’t able to (computer problems). I tried to phone them and someone did answer but he transferred me and then nobody answered the phone.

I don’t think this is Church teaching.

Do you or does anybody else have any further info on this group?

Thanks - I don’t mean to question you or anything but I’ve run across some other websites that don’t conform to Church teaching even though they use the word “Catholic” in their title.

Hi LittleSoldier
You are correct in that just having Catholic in the name doesn’t make it true to the Church, however, I have found The United State Council of Catholic Bishops a very reputable and highly respected source regarding Catholic issues and Church Teaching.

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

The Church has only spoken on the contraceptive use of BC within a marriage relationship, a woman has the natural and moral right to protect herself from an unwanted pregnancy.

I would really love to see a source that verifies this is from either the Vatican or the USCCB, because I do not believe this to be the case. Nothing I’ve read supports this idea. Any ideas where you are getting this from?

The woman does have this right, provided she uses a natural form of birth prevention (let’s face it, it’s not really birth CONTROL, is it? but i digress ) The only method of birth prevention accepted by the Church is one of the Natural Family Planning (NFP), which is NOT the rythym method and is far more effective than any chemical birth control. NFP usually has the added benefit of enriching the marital relationship, and yes I speak from personal experience.

This method does not prevent fertilization or implantation, but reduces the likelihood of pregnancy by using the woman’s natural cycle as God designs it. It also defers ultimately by being always open to the possibility of Life, if that is what God’s Will is for us.

The only other situation that I know if is using BC for medical reasons, absolutely not to provide a women with “control” over her body, that is a purely secular concept, but to treat medical conditions like Endometreosis, which I had. When I took birth control, I was both single and celibate, so this wasn’t an issue. When I married, that changed, because part of the marriage covenant is to be open to Life. It can be a complicated issue. I eventually had to have a hysterectomy, but this was after years of struggling with a progressive illness and many discussions with priests during that time.

In cases of rape, bringing it back to the original topic, the Church never, ever supports killing an embryo or fetus, implanted or not and why should they? If God deemed that this Life was precious and should be brought into the world, how arrogant are we to end that life!

I am open, however, to new information and would love to read whatever source you might be referring to.

Thanks so much for contributing to a great discussion.

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

May I please ask why? Contraception prevents ovulation. So why would you “test” to determine that ovulation has not taken place before administering emergency contraception? The object of EC is to prevent ovulation. If ovulation has already taken place, EC has no effect on a current pregnancy. However, the longer you wait, the more likely ovulation might happen, especially if the woman in question doesn’t have a regular reliable cycle. The object is to stop ovulation before it occurs. It does nothing after the fact.

Contraception is supposed to take place at ovulation, however I know more and more women are getting pregnant who are on BC because the levels of hormones are less than they used to be due to concerns about side effects (esp for smokers) and cancer rates.

If there is ANY possibility of an embryo being formed, it becomes killing a life that God created.

From a Catholic perspective, even if these pills were perfect and performed the way that they are supposed, you are still turning away from God and His desire for the woman and for the child. This is clarified in Humane VItae, the best source for understanding this issue.
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

 

[FMLJoliecouer]

You are thinking of St. Gianna Molla. Her husband understood her reasons. He named the child after her, and the child and her father were present when she was Canonized by Pope John Paul II - the first married woman to be canonized in the modern era.

That is so amazing…thanks for sharing that with me

God Bless…

 

[Jermosh]

I would really love to see a source that verifies this is from either the Vatican or the USCCB, because I do not believe this to be the case. Nothing I’ve read supports this idea. Any ideas where you are getting this from?

The woman does have this right, provided she uses a natural form of birth prevention (let’s face it, it’s not really birth CONTROL, is it? but i digress ) The only method of birth prevention accepted by the Church is one of the Natural Family Planning (NFP), which is NOT the rythym method and is far more effective than any chemical birth control. NFP usually has the added benefit of enriching the marital relationship, and yes I speak from personal experience.

This method does not prevent fertilization or implantation, but reduces the likelihood of pregnancy by using the woman’s natural cycle as God designs it. It also defers ultimately by being always open to the possibility of Life, if that is what God’s Will is for us.

The only other situation that I know if is using BC for medical reasons, absolutely not to provide a women with “control” over her body, that is a purely secular concept, but to treat medical conditions like Endometreosis, which I had. When I took birth control, I was both single and celibate, so this wasn’t an issue. When I married, that changed, because part of the marriage covenant is to be open to Life. It can be a complicated issue. I eventually had to have a hysterectomy, but this was after years of struggling with a progressive illness and many discussions with priests during that time.

In cases of rape, bringing it back to the original topic, the Church never, ever supports killing an embryo or fetus, implanted or not and why should they? If God deemed that this Life was precious and should be brought into the world, how arrogant are we to end that life!

I am open, however, to new information and would love to read whatever source you might be referring to.

Thanks so much for contributing to a great discussion.

I have already provided the link. usccb.org/prolife/issues/abortion/ecfact.shtml

That said, all prohibitions on any form of ABC is only in the context of marriage, every CCC point, papal bull or magisterium speaks in the context of a marriage.

 

[ExLuxLucis]

I would think that it would be sinful to do so… the child may grow up into a strong man or woman and be a symbol of God bringing good out of evil.

However, isn’t there something the Catholic Church said about “If the baby dies as a side effect of an operation to save the mother and not as the means of goal” it is alright?

Also, based on the concept of both objective sin and subjective degrees of sin, am I right?
That in some situations a frightened or afraid young girl may not be so culpable for her sin. For instance:

A young girl is coerced and raped by her boyfriend. Her boyfriend blackmails her and tells her “If you love me, you will keep quiet and abort the baby. If not, I will not love you.” Being naive and very, very scared, such a girl quietly arranges an abortion with the help of one of the many virulently anti-life organisations around.

Of course I am not condoning the actions of the millions in our culture who abort because they wish to conveniently remove the consequences of their sleeping around.

However I would think that the Lord, in his infinite mercy, would forgive such a girl in the predicament above? Obviously it is the duty of the priest-confessor/sister/parent who guides her to teach her the right thing she should have done. But still, I do not think our Lord is such a merciless, uncaringly judgemental Lord.

I am not catholic, so the above may or may not be Church doctrine… what do you think of this post?

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I’m not defending anything here on anyone’s side. But the medical community does define the term “pregnancy” as beginning at the time of implantation since that is when the child is physically attached to the mother. Until then it’s only free-floating in her body. This is why, medically, the term “abortion” cannot be used to describe preventing implantation, since a pregnancy has not yet occured. If we’re gunna win this war, unfortunatly, we need to fight it on their wordage.

All this means for us, as prolife men and women, is that we can’t call preventing implantation “abortion” but rather what it is. Murder. They actually gave us this tool by making us NOT call it abortion. Kudos to them, they made our lives easier.

I fully believe in life at conception. I also believe a woman isn’t “pregnant” until implantation has occured. That doesn’t mean that there is no child. I believe that willfully preventing implantation by using an IUD or Depo Provera shots is gravely immoral since you are purposefully killing a child. KNOWINGLY. Now, I am curious about Plan B, especially since the church has allowed its use in cases of rape. I am guessing that they (the church) have used their penetrating minds and incredible patience and discernment to look at the issue (as they have with so many others) and have spoken to a host of doctors that say that while they can’t guarantee that it doesn’t prevent implantation, it more than likely will not and the main purpose of Plan B is to prevent ovulation. Especially since the little swimmers can live up to a week in her body.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I would think that it would be sinful to do so… the child may grow up into a strong man or woman and be a symbol of God bringing good out of evil.

However, isn’t there something the Catholic Church said about “If the baby dies as a side effect of an operation to save the mother and not as the means of goal” it is alright?

Also, based on the concept of both objective sin and subjective degrees of sin, am I right?
That in some situations a frightened or afraid young girl may not be so culpable for her sin. For instance:

A young girl is coerced and raped by her boyfriend. Her boyfriend blackmails her and tells her “If you love me, you will keep quiet and abort the baby. If not, I will not love you.” Being naive and very, very scared, such a girl quietly arranges an abortion with the help of one of the many virulently anti-life organisations around.

Of course I am not condoning the actions of the millions in our culture who abort because they wish to conveniently remove the consequences of their sleeping around.

However I would think that the Lord, in his infinite mercy, would forgive such a girl in the predicament above? Obviously it is the duty of the priest-confessor/sister/parent who guides her to teach her the right thing she should have done. But still, I do not think our Lord is such a merciless, uncaringly judgemental Lord.

I am not catholic, so the above may or may not be Church doctrine… what do you think of this post?

Actually you can judge the situation for yourself. Just change the “fetus” into a born baby and apply the same procedure.

Image the same woman, with the same problem, but she HAS the baby. Then her boyfriend coerces her to hire someone to tear the child into in pieces, crush the skull, and throw it in a plastic bag and dump it in a dumpster (sorry if this is graphic, but this is how abortion works…). Do you think culpability is lessened? My heart truly goes out to the women who are pressured by jerks. THis is why I wish to support them so they don’t commit such a horrible sin against their bodies, their child, and their soul.

Basically, if you are trying to discern culpability in the case of abortions or preventing implantation, just use an already-born child to determine. Take for example intentionally preventing implantation. Say a woman HAS the child, but then decides she can’t care for it. So she puts it out of her house, doesn’t feed it, doesn’t clothe it and lets it die that way. Is her culpability lessened?