Can raped girls abort?

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Oh good. Then if you’ve already posted it, you can cut-and-paste it here and elaborate on those situations and why and how you feel the situations change from ‘not morally permissible’ to ‘morally acceptable.’
 
I’ve stated my position. I never said I had a formal argument.
The argument would be based on proportionalism, although I could also argue from a deontological standpoint too or even virtue ethics.
 
I never said you needed one jmcrae. You are perfectly at liberty to either appeal to authority or simply say this is my intuition:thumbsup:

If the mothers’ life is at stake (which will also result in the baby’s death), then the severity of the situation is sufficient to justify abortion.

Virtue ethics would probably state that the mothers’ motive to save her life would make the action morally acceptable.
 
Doc_Keele said:
I’ve stated my position. I never said I had a formal argument.
The argument would be based on proportionalism, although I could also argue from a deontological standpoint too or even virtue ethics.
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Well, okay, Doc, but what your statement where you said,
jmcrae, I am talking about formal philosophical arguments
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after
but I’m totally open about my agenda. I am interesting in formal arguments and part of that is rejecting arguments
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If you have a proper formal argument to make fine, otherwise don’t feel offended if I don’t respond.
I am interested in philosophical arguments, not rhetoric.
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I mean, to me it looks as if you want to look at formal arguments while not having one yourself.
 
Tantum ergo, do you see this whole thing as gladiatorial exercise? It seems that you do.

If you think this is all some sort of competiton, no wonder you feel I’m “cheating”.

What can I say?🤷

If that’s how you want to approach it, I can’t stop you:shrug:
 
Doc_Keele said:
I never said you needed one jmcrae. You are perfectly at liberty to either appeal to authority or simply say this is my intuition:thumbsup:
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Right. I am appealing to the authority of God, and the witness of Scripture, and to the axiom that the good of society is the good of the person. 🙂
If the mothers’ life is at stake (which will also result in the baby’s death), then the severity of the situation is sufficient to justify abortion.
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If the treatment of a disease results in the death of the unborn child, that isn’t actually an “abortion.” (Chemotherapy, for example, in the case of treatment for cancer, can result in the death of the unborn child.)

I know of no medical procedure where killing the child directly (which is what an abortion is) would be of benefit to the mother, or cure her of any disease.
 
Doc_Keele said:
Tantum ergo, do you see this whole thing as gladiatorial exercise? It seems that you do.

If you think this is all some sort of competiton, no wonder you feel I’m “cheating”.

What can I say?🤷

If that’s how you want to approach it, I can’t stop you:shrug:
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She is simply pointing out that you appear to have a double-standard. 🤷
 
jmcrae said:
Right. I am appealing to the authority of God, and the witness of Scripture, and to the axiom that the good of society is the good of the person. 🙂
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Fine. It’s your position.
If the treatment of a disease results in the death of the unborn child, that isn’t actually an “abortion.” (Chemotherapy, for example, in the case of treatment for cancer, can result in the death of the unborn child.)
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I know of no medical procedure where killing the child directly (which is what an abortion is) would be of benefit to the mother, or cure her of any disease.
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I know of medical procedures where killing the child is of benefit to the mother eg in ectopic pregnancy.
 
jmcrae said:
She is simply pointing out that you appear to have a double-standard. 🤷
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Well that’s because you see this as a mano a mano struggle.
No double standards at all.

I’m not actually bothered what either of you think really:shrug:

It’s all beside the point completely. You two want to win an argument, that’s not my aim.
 
Ah, thank you for the clarification. I was not at all worried about you ‘not knowing what you were talking about’, just wanted to make sure we mean the same thing by use of the acronym. 😉 For some reason, from previous posts I wasn’t sure. Guess I’m trying to confirm if MAP is Plan B. According the USCCB “Is Plan B a contraceptive? It can be, but it can also cause an early abortion. Depending on when in her menstrual cycle a woman takes it,”

This is a great link re:what the Church’s stand is in terms of rape, if that helps. 🤷 Not a correction, judgement, etc, just an FYI in case you’ve not seen it. If you have, please disregard. Perhaps this is where the other pill that you have heard about comes into use: usccb.org/prolife/issues/abortion/ecfact.shtml These are referred to as EC’s. To confuse things, I think that there is a new one out there (Previn) that the industry is calling an EC that, apparently, is abortifacient. It’s referred to as Preven Emergency Post Coital Oral Contraceptive Kit, but I read somewhere that it is also being sold as contraceptive, but is abortifacient (at least in part) and the Catholic Bishops have protested this.

So if I have it right,

BC is every day birth control
MAP is Plan B (morning after pill)
EC is emergency contraception, including Preven.

or are we using MAP and EC interchangeably? I’m really not trying to nit pick, I swear, just trying to make sure i’m on the sam page as the rest of you. 🙂 I THINK that the EC is used in Catholic Hospitals along with a pill to inhibit ovulation, if the menstrual cycle deems it necessary.

I can appreciate your comments about not wanting to keep a child conceived from rape, although I was surprised to find most women do not want an abortion and many do not even put the child up for adoption. That was enlightening to me, we assume they do, but they often do not. 🤷 I do not know what I would do, either, other than save the life. I wish that women never had to be in this position - we all do.

Let me know if I’ve confused things or if there’s a correction to be made.

Thanks.
 
I never said you cheated, Doc,and your ‘perceptions’ are a bit off the wall. But if you don’t mind–and somehow, I really think you don’t–we’ll set aside your little misperceptions about me while you have a discussion with JM.
 
Doc_Keele said:
I know of medical procedures where killing the child is of benefit to the mother eg in ectopic pregnancy.
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Just a brief note here:

Ectopic pregnancy is not a deliberate killing of a child, it is an unfortunate result of the need to remove the fallopian tube; which, if not done, would result in the death of both.
 
Fidelis_Unus said:
Just a brief note here:

Ectopic pregnancy is not a deliberate killing of a child, it is an unfortunate result of the need to remove the fallopian tube; which, if not done, would result in the death of both.
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The Church differentiates between different treatments, and considers some of them to constitute “direct” abortion and therefore forbidden - in fact any treatment was forbidden in the 19th century/early 20th I believe.
 
Doc_Keele said:
The Church differentiates between different treatments, and considers some of them to constitute “direct” abortion and therefore forbidden - in fact any treatment was forbidden in the 19th century/early 20th I believe.
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Do you have a source for this?
 
Hope this isn’t going too much off the point, but for Tantum Ergo and jmcrae (and anyone else that wishes to answer of course):
should the Catholic Church prove that its doctrines are correct?
giving reasons why it should or shouldn’t?
 
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