Can raped girls abort?

[Eris_Discordia]

Wow, you’ve really been through a lot Eris. I’m so glad that you formed the support group here on CAF. I hope it helps you. I think it would be a great idea for you to form a similar one at school. Rape is so horrible and scarring, and women don’t seem to get the support they need enough (or men for that matter). I wish you success in forming that group so that you all can explore your feelings and talk about it.

You’re right that it takes a different person to consent to being pregnant after a rape. I’m glad these women can overcome the terror and trauma well enough. But like you, I don’t think I could either. And at the very least, we have THAT choice.

I tried to start a group here, but it got deleted. I’m upset about it, because there are groups for Catholic survivors of PTSD and other trauma, but it’s not specific to assault survivors, and I would feel alienated because of my differing faith. I might try again, though I don’t know what will come of it. I am an active member of the Twilightsucks forum, and I started a thread there for survivors, which has been really amazing. I feel good that I’ve helped people. Plus I’m meeting with someone in like 15 minutes to see if there is a group, and if not to get one started on campus. Rape survivors don’t get enough support, and I get angry when I see thread after thread about abortion, but NONE having to do with rape, unless it is like this one, and having to do with abortion. I get angry, because it’s sounds like my trauma doesn’t matter. I’ve seen one on rape, and it was about how the Church doesn’t do enough for survivors. It’s frustrating.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

How can you be so certain?

Because I have mild-severe depression, and tokophobia, which is the fear of pregnancy or being pregnant. Also, I would know because I’m a rape survivor, and have absolutely no desire to get pregnant, so much so that I have a phobia. I know myself very well, especially since I started therapy, and in general I am a thoughtful person who does a lot of soul searching and thinking. Which honestly, to quote Emilie Autumn, “Intelligent girls are more depressed because they know what the world is really like.” I live with the reality of a lot of terrible things, and I’ve been through a lot more than most should, like losing my father at 9 to MS. It’s not like I haven’t thought about it. I am already fighting to get by some days just living with the fact that I am an assault survivor, and having to deal with a pregnancy would destroy me.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

I agree that the child isn’t at fault in any way shape or form.

What I would hope is that I could help this girl, be supportive after such a tramatic ordeal.
In my own experience knowing that I wasn’t alone is what saved me. I couldn’t have made it through such a nightmare, without knowing that god was always there for me. My faith was never so important, it got me through something I thought I could never come back from.

"“Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat…We must find each other.”
Mother Teresa

I commend your strength for being able to go through with it. I mean that, sincerely. I don’t have the ability to.

 

[EmeraldWings]

what i would like, is to hear from someone who was raped, got pregnant, and kept the child…i want to know how it’s handled from that perspective, not just “i know this is how it would be” i want to hear “this is how it was for me”
the main subject of this topic is “can raped girls abort” not “what do woman who have been raped think they would do if they got pregnant”…and the answer is still no.

i still think though, we really need to get past this idea that unborn children are expendable in any case, however terrible it may be,
abortion hasn’t been around an incredibly long time, so what would we have done before then?
once a life is made, it can’t be undone, that life will live on for all eternity, and we cannot be sure where it goes…although i personally don’t believe it would go to hell, because hell is for those with mortal sin on their soul, and an unborn baby certainly has done nothing to deserve hell, but at the same time, we must be baptized to enter into heaven, so what happens to these millions of babies who have been aborted? perhaps they are saved by baptism of blood…but that’s a whole different subject altogether, and the main fact is we just don’t know…
eternity is a long time(and that’s a major understatement) i don’t think i could live with myself if i knew i was responsible for another soul not ever being able to go to heaven…

 

[Eris_Discordia]

what i would like, is to hear from someone who was raped, got pregnant, and kept the child…i want to know how it’s handled from that perspective, not just “i know this is how it would be” i want to hear “this is how it was for me”
the main subject of this topic is “can raped girls abort” not “what do woman who have been raped think they would do if they got pregnant”…and the answer is still no.

i still think though, we really need to get past this idea that unborn children are expendable in any case, however terrible it may be,
abortion hasn’t been around an incredibly long time, so what would we have done before then?
once a life is made, it can’t be undone, that life will live on for all eternity, and we cannot be sure where it goes…although i personally don’t believe it would go to hell, because hell is for those with mortal sin on their soul, and an unborn baby certainly has done nothing to deserve hell, but at the same time, we must be baptized to enter into heaven, so what happens to these millions of babies who have been aborted? perhaps they are saved by baptism of blood…but that’s a whole different subject altogether, and the main fact is we just don’t know…
eternity is a long time(and that’s a major understatement) i don’t think i could live with myself if i knew i was responsible for another soul not ever being able to go to heaven…

I’ve talked to people who have aborted their child, and people who have kept it. Neither side seems to regret their decision. Like I said, if you can do it, that’s amazing, and I admire the person’s strength. However, not ALL people can. Also, if you don’t mean to come off that way, then sorry, but you seem flippant. The main thing here is RAPE, which is a horrific crime, and abortion. My response comes from my experiences. So I’m sorry if it irritates you, but this is a part of my life, and why I feel the way I do. So try to be more respectful, please. Also, abortion has been around for years. People were more crude about the process, but it has. The main thing is CHOICE. Do not demonize another person’s choice, because you have no idea how it is for them. Like I have said several times, I know and commend people for their ability to carry on their pregnancy, but MY CHOICE and thoughts are formed on specifically what happened to me, and what I can and cannot handle. So yes, if a raped woman wants to abort, then she should have the ability to do so. If she wants to keep the child, she should have the ability to do so.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

In reading my previous post I realize that it sounds more clinical than I’d like. I tried to not seem judgmental, as I am not judging anyone in this situation.

Perhaps if I share that I, too, was raped in my twenties where I was alone and had no one to turn to. It completely destroyed the plans I had and there was no one to tell, no one to help. Even so, while I did not become pregnant, there is no way I would have gotten an abortion. It’s easy to think that we each dodged a bullet, except that later … when I had my daughter I finally made choices to protect her, when I had not protected myself. It not only gave me a better life, but in doing so I learned to love myself, too, and not allow people to treat me the badly. It’s hard to know, so I simply trust in God’s Plan for me. In having a child, God brought me to a better life and a place where i could love Him and love others.

I also suffer from BMPD. All my siblings do as well (bipolar schitzo-affective, depressive disorder and schitzphrenia, etc.) Some handle it better than others, some get better help, some have addictions. I finally found a very good doctor and no one would ever know if I didn’t tell them. I suffer from Fibromyalgia, too, perhaps triggered by this single traumatic experience. For whatever reason God has put these things in my life and I willingly accept them. For, “There but for the grace of God go I.”

Thank you for having the courage to share your experience. This is such an emotional issue and, yes, there are always some very unkind postings. I hope you find mostly love and compassion. I hope, too, that you are able to find the healing and the practical help to be able to find joy and be at rest. I wish there was a magic answer to give you, I truly do. For me, the answer was and is, Trusting in Him.

Thank you for your honesty as well, and I am sorry you had no one to turn to. I’m actively trying to start a group for survivors on campus. I had a meeting today, and it went really well! The counselor was really interested in it, and she’s going to talk to the other counselors as well tomorrow, and we’re going to brainstorm on what to do, how to advertise ECT. I’m hopeful it takes off. I was lucky, I had people I could talk to, and trust. That’s why I have been getting involved in starting groups online, because it has helped a lot of people. Now I might be able to get that going IRL, and I’m really happy about it. Also, it’s good that you’re keeping your daughter safe. I honestly still haven’t told my mom. I don’t want her to be mad at herself for not protecting me, even though there wasn’t anything she could do. I hope that you find healing as well. I’m actually a lot better. I was binge drinking and missing classes all the time, and almost failed out because it was subconsciously eating away at me. Then I stopped, and started doing a lot better, started therapy, and also had a lot of support from friends. I’m lucky, and I’m sorry you were hurt, and I’m sorry you had no one. That’s why I’m so protective and involved. I don’t want anyone to feel alone going through this. Hopefully my group will be successful. I think we will be one of the few campuses that have a specialized support group, if it does. Plus I’ll feel a lot better knowing I’m doing something.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

Sorry, you’re right. Can’t type, can’t see the screen, must be getting old.

I do it all the time. No big deal.

It sounds like you have so much going on, I wish it were easier.

I missed your other post by accident, but I did have an easier time of it. Like I said, I;m not Catholic, but if you could say a prayer for the group I just started to be helpful and successful in getting more awareness, that would be awesome.

I wish I could agree with this, but there are two points: a) the pregnancy happened, we did not 'cause it any more than we caused the rape and b) there is another human life involved, just as precious, just as deserving.

I understand. I can’t ask for you or anyone else to agree with me. It’s all down to different theological beliefs, and situations, and a whole host of other differences. I respect your beliefs, and even if I don’t share them, I do understand where you are coming from. If we had more understanding, the world would be a lot better. IMHO.

Financial reasons for getting an abortion are simply not valid to me. I was a single mother over a decade with no help. It was hard, but not impossible. There is a lot of help here for single parents, including assistance to allow women to go to school. Did you know that there are adoption agencies that actually provide scholarships to cover college education for women who give their child up for adoption?

I commend you. My mom was too, when she was widowed. I was 9, and my dad had MS. Again, thankfully I was never pregnant and had to go through the choice, nor do I ever want to be. I actually want to adopt an older child, and hopefully I will be much better than I am now so I can. I was unaware that they gave out scholarships. Although my problem would be loans. My loans are differed until six months after graduation, unless I drop out, when they are due immediately. My mom’s name is on them, and if I can’t pay them, she’s the one who suffers. Honestly, I have no idea what I would do in that situation. I’ve done a lot of thinking, and it’s not easy no matter what you do. Like I said, you’re extremely brave as well for going through everything and still having made it out, while not fully healed, but that you are doing well. I wish I could phrase that better

 

[EmeraldWings]

I’ve talked to people who have aborted their child, and people who have kept it. Neither side seems to regret their decision. Like I said, if you can do it, that’s amazing, and I admire the person’s strength. However, not ALL people can. Also, if you don’t mean to come off that way, then sorry, but you seem flippant. The main thing here is RAPE, which is a horrific crime, and abortion. My response comes from my experiences. So I’m sorry if it irritates you, but this is a part of my life, and why I feel the way I do. So try to be more respectful, please. Also, abortion has been around for years. People were more crude about the process, but it has. The main thing is CHOICE. Do not demonize another person’s choice, because you have no idea how it is for them. Like I have said several times, I know and commend people for their ability to carry on their pregnancy, but MY CHOICE and thoughts are formed on specifically what happened to me, and what I can and cannot handle. So yes, if a raped woman wants to abort, then she should have the ability to do so. If she wants to keep the child, she should have the ability to do so.

what did i say that sounded disrespectful? i really didn’t mean to come off that way,
i’m not irritated at all, i’ve had conversations like this a hundred times, i care for the baby and much as the mother, in both manners of physical and mental health, but for me the most important thing is the soul,

as far as choice goes, like i said before, choice(or free will) lies in the choosing of good and evil, and the simple question is, is my choice good or bad? of course that is not referring to any specific question, just a general example,
sure a raped woman can choose to kill her baby, but that doesn’t make it good,
i feel love for both victims of rape, the mother, and the child, i am passionate about saving lives…

and as i’ve said before, everything happens for a reason, if a woman becomes pregnant, the reason for that is not to kill the baby, because then that would be an end, and an end cannot result as a reason…

of course rape is a horrific crime, but so is abortion, how does one justify the other? no amount of suffering justifies the killing of the innocent, whether it’s your sister, your mother, your best friend, your worst enemy, or an innocent unborn child…the baby’s right to life overrides the woman’s wish not to be pregnant…and that’s not meant to sound disrespectful or un-compassionate, can’t i cry for the victim of rape AND the aborted baby? and in this case, we are not arguing on how horrible rape is, we are arguing how horrible abortion is,

yes abortion has been around a long time, but my basic point was, what did woman do before it was made so available? there were obviously millions less of abortions,

we all have a purpose in life, and the meaning of life is to know, love, and serve God, and abortion does not fulfill that in any way.

i honestly have no ill intentions or motives for saying these things, it is simply my opinion along with church teaching, and if anyone is going to be upset with me for saying these things, well, i can’t help that, i don’t have to explain how i’m saying something or how much compassion and sorrow i have for someone in my posts on a forum…you can’t hear how someone says something on a forum, and for that very reason i never take peoples posts personally…unless it’s that obvious d:

alright, that’s all, tc.

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

Like I said, I;m not Catholic, but if you could say a prayer for the group I just started to be helpful and successful in getting more awareness, that would be awesome.

You bet!

Like I said, you’re extremely brave as well for going through everything and still having made it out, while not fully healed, but that you are doing well. I wish I could phrase that better

I disagree, though I appreciate the compliment. God has blessed in so many ways once I trusted Him. This was all so long ago and my daughter is grown up. Truly, the abuse from my family caused more long-lasting problems than the other incident. I am very much healed and quite happy. My mental illness is a maintenance, like managing diabetes, nothing more, nothing less.

May you be blessed in what you are trying to accomplish in helping others as you are and may all women who suffer from being raped, be given all that God’s wills for them to allow them to heal and to be open to His Love.

 

[vz71]

The main thing here is RAPE, which is a horrific crime, and abortion.

Sorry to rain on the parade, but the main thing here is the life of a child.

Life is always of paramount concern.
Moreso then any despicable crime.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

Sorry to rain on the parade, but the main thing here is the life of a child.

Life is always of paramount concern.
Moreso then any despicable crime.

I disagree. Rape is just as bad. If you don’t think it’s akin to murder, talk to people who haven’t been as lucky as myself and Fidelis. It can kill a person, an innocent person, through using sexuality as a weapon. Just because a person is still breathing doesn’t mean it can’t kill them in every other way imaginable.

 

[Doc_Keele]

I absolutely agree with Eris. Being “Pro-Life” must be much more than about preserving life surely? It must be about upholding the values that make human life worth living - like autonomy, freedom from violence, be it sexual or non-sexual. So to demote rape to a trivial problem compared to abortion is not “Pro-Life” for me.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

what did i say that sounded disrespectful? i really didn’t mean to come off that way,
i’m not irritated at all, i’ve had conversations like this a hundred times, i care for the baby and much as the mother, in both manners of physical and mental health, but for me the most important thing is the soul,

as far as choice goes, like i said before, choice(or free will) lies in the choosing of good and evil, and the simple question is, is my choice good or bad? of course that is not referring to any specific question, just a general example,
sure a raped woman can choose to kill her baby, but that doesn’t make it good,
i feel love for both victims of rape, the mother, and the child, i am passionate about saving lives…

and as i’ve said before, everything happens for a reason, if a woman becomes pregnant, the reason for that is not to kill the baby, because then that would be an end, and an end cannot result as a reason…

of course rape is a horrific crime, but so is abortion, how does one justify the other? no amount of suffering justifies the killing of the innocent, whether it’s your sister, your mother, your best friend, your worst enemy, or an innocent unborn child…the baby’s right to life overrides the woman’s wish not to be pregnant…and that’s not meant to sound disrespectful or un-compassionate, can’t i cry for the victim of rape AND the aborted baby? and in this case, we are not arguing on how horrible rape is, we are arguing how horrible abortion is,

yes abortion has been around a long time, but my basic point was, what did woman do before it was made so available? there were obviously millions less of abortions,

we all have a purpose in life, and the meaning of life is to know, love, and serve God, and abortion does not fulfill that in any way.

i honestly have no ill intentions or motives for saying these things, it is simply my opinion along with church teaching, and if anyone is going to be upset with me for saying these things, well, i can’t help that, i don’t have to explain how i’m saying something or how much compassion and sorrow i have for someone in my posts on a forum…you can’t hear how someone says something on a forum, and for that very reason i never take peoples posts personally…unless it’s that obvious d:

alright, that’s all, tc.

I think it was the way things were phrased. Text is really bad when it comes to taking on meanings you didn’t intend. 60% or so people misread text and take things differently. Plus, it’s a sensitive subject for me, so even if you didn’t intend to, it sounded bad. So thanks for clarifying. And yes you can. I do appreciate that you care, about both the mother and child. I’m sorry if I was snippy with you. I can’t agree with forcing a mother to carry a child created from rape, simply because I know I would be dead or in a psych ward. However, if a woman has the strength and courage to take such a horrible crime and find something good out of it, I would support that as well. If I could, I would donate money to help women in this kind of situation, or if there were some shelters close by, I would volunteer there. Right now, I don’t have a car or money, which makes it really hard to do anything. Like I’ve said, I can respect the perspective, but I can’t agree with you. You seem like a very compassionate person, after reading this especially, and passionate as well. Do you volunteer with any sort of organizations to help survivors, post abortion counseling, or things of that nature? You would probably be good at counseling or something of that nature. Not to derail or anything like that. I was just curious. Thanks for clarifying, and again, I’m sorry for my snippy-ness.

 

[wanner47]

I disagree. Rape is just as bad. If you don’t think it’s akin to murder, talk to people who haven’t been as lucky as myself and Fidelis. It can kill a person, an innocent person, through using sexuality as a weapon. Just because a person is still breathing doesn’t mean it can’t kill them in every other way imaginable.

Rape is horrible and degrading… but you are still alive afterwards. It may take away your respect, your dignity, your sense of self-worth… but it does not take away your life, and all those things can be regained to a certain degree with hard work, therapy, medication, etc. As slim as it may seem, there is hope.

Abortion robs babies of life itself. They cannot ever get it back. They are punished for a crime they did not commit. There is NO HOPE.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

I absolutely agree with Eris. Being “Pro-Life” must be much more than about preserving life surely? It must be about upholding the values that make human life worth living - like autonomy, freedom from violence, be it sexual or non-sexual. So to demote rape to a trivial problem compared to abortion is not “Pro-Life” for me.

This is what I’ve been getting at. I think that trivializing something that has affected so many people is wrong. Rape is about as frequent as abortion, and it can be just as, if not more so, devastating. Also, not only here in the US, but around the world, especially in third-world countries where it’s used as a weapon. Not to mention that survivors are still stigmatized, especially male survivors who have been raped by women. I think that there is not enough being done in the Church, and it infuriates me when people seem to trivialize it. And Doc is right. Life is about being able to live, and a lot of survivors are having that taken away from them, because of the severe psychological effects of it.

 

[Apryl]

I disagree. Rape is just as bad. If you don’t think it’s akin to murder, talk to people who haven’t been as lucky as myself and Fidelis. It can kill a person, an innocent person, through using sexuality as a weapon. Just because a person is still breathing doesn’t mean it can’t kill them in every other way imaginable.

True

And we punish the culprit

Not the nearest thing that we can overpower

 

[Eris_Discordia]

Rape is horrible and degrading… but you are still alive afterwards. It may take away your respect, your dignity, your sense of self-worth… but it does not take away your life, and all those things can be regained to a certain degree with hard work, therapy, medication, etc. As slim as it may seem, there is hope.

There are some days a lot of survivors wake up wondering if it’s worth it. A lot become suicidal. Dignity and self-worth are important, it’s not trivial. Every person has a right to be free from this, and most of the time, rapists live their life free of any of the effects that a rape victim suffers. I should know, I never reported my rapist, and he is in school, has a job, has stolen a lot of my old friends, ect. He also has no guilt over anything he did to me. He denied emotionally abusing me, and he threatened to put me in a hospital for speaking out about him, which I reported, but never followed through, because I was afraid he would come after me. 60% of victims never come forward.

Abortion robs babies of life itself. They cannot ever get it back. They are punished for a crime they did not commit. There is NO HOPE.

If you are forcing someone to carry a child to term that is created from rape, then that is a hopeless situation for some people. Not all, but some. Also, so many people say that it’s only 9 months, but you don’t take into consideration that pregnancy is hard. Between morning sickness and back aches and loss of mobility and loss of freedom, it’s not something some people can go through when the child is the product of rape. Some women can do it, but there are women who can’t.

 

[kage_ar]

. I think that there is not enough being done in the Church, and it infuriates me when people seem to trivialize it.

The Church condemns rape with the strongest language - she calls rape intrinsicly evil.

2356 Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply wounds the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them.

What makes you think that the Church does not consider this a grave sin?

The problem here is that abortion is also a grave sin.

What sort of relativisitc mind would think the evil act of rape is wrong and with the same breath encourage the evil of abortion?

If anyone says rape is not evil, they have put themselves out of communion with the Church and must repent or be guilty of cooperation with evil.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

True

And we punish the culprit

Not the nearest thing that we can overpower

It’s not about overpowering. It’s not even about punishment. It’s about the fact that a woman didn’t choose to be raped, she obviously didn’t choose to be pregnant, and she shouldn’t be forced to give up 9 more months of her life for a child that, through every day of her pregnancy, could remind her that her rapist is still in control. Also, rape is extremely difficult to prosecute, and most rape is either date or acquaintance rape, and 60% of rape survivors don’t come forward, and a lot of rapists go free. So punishing the culprit often doesn’t happen.

*Edited for clarity.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

The Church condemns rape with the strongest language - she calls rape intrinsicly evil.

2356 Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply wounds the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them.

What makes you think that the Church does not consider this a grave sin?

The problem here is that abortion is also a grave sin.

What sort of relativisitc mind would think the evil act of rape is wrong and with the same breath encourage the evil of abortion?

If anyone says rape is not evil, they have put themselves out of communion with the Church and must repent or be guilty of cooperation with evil.

I’m not saying the Church doesn’t consider it a sin. I’m saying there is no strong base for support of victims. There is no “Walk to End Rape”, or things of that nature, and there is no groups that are Church based that I am aware that raises rape awareness, and there is nothing that is nearly as publicized being done about rape, aside from a few charities and DV centers. No one came to my school and taught me about rape, and there is not an outcry about it, even though it is very common. Rape happens about as often as abortion, and can be devastating to the victim of it, and there are no cohesive efforts to speak up for victims coming from the Church.

I understand that abortion, to the Church, is a grave sin. I know that rape is also considered a grave sin. And I am not encouraging anyone to get an abortion, I’m defending that the choice should be there, and that the church should do just as much for rape victims as they do for abortion.