Can Saints (especially Mary) hear prayers?

[Mickey]

FrRobSST:

The Christian East does not accept Transubstantiation. In fact, one Eastern Orthodox source calls it “an injustice to the depth of the matter”. I agree. Transubstantiation requires an assent to the concept that the bread and wine are utterly annhilated and employs pre-Christian philosophical notions to describe it. I am not saying TS is either wrong or impossible, but I am saying that belief in it should not rise to the level of a Dogma (i.e., necessary for salvation). Belief in the Real Presence of Christ (not a spiritual presence, not a receptionalist point of view, a REAL presence as Scripture plainly confesses) is essential. A belief in one specific manner of thinking about how it comes to pass is not necessary for salvation. If it were, the Eastern Orthodox would not have a valid Eucharist or Holy Orders, for they would not intend to do what the Church does. Rome has clearly stated that they are valid.

Yes, I am familiar with Eastern Orthodox theology–It is the bulk of my library. Remember, I am Byzantine Catholic. As a Byzantine Catholic, most of our Traditions are compatible with Eastern Orthodox–but they like to call us uniates. I am not required to use the term, “Transubstantiation”, (I prefer Real Presence), but I accept the Roman Catholic definition. The Roman Catholic Church has been forced to further clarify some teachings due to brutal attack. Clarifying doctrine is not changing it. So we are in communion with Rome–unity is beautiful. We celebrate the Mysteries of faith according to our ancient Traditions. Same goes for the Melkites, Ukranian, Chaldeans, Maronites, etc. Please don’t present the Roman Catholic Church as some kind of tyrannical dictator who snatches away your salvation. That’s not very charitable.

FrRobSST:

Actually, if you check your Greek New Testament, the translation is that the gates of hades would not prevail. Hades in greek is the same as Sheol in hebrew. It was a confession that the Church would never die. This is the witness of the Ancient Fathers.

Sorry. Some translations are hell. I’m not a scholar on the septuagent, but I think you get my meaning. And yes, it was a confession that the Church would never die. The One, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that Christ founded. The Catholic Church.

FrRobSST:

To raise something to the level of a Dogma carries with it, in the West, the connotation that you must accept this to be saved.

FrRobSST:

To that extent, since it is not dogmatically required to assent to the Assumption or Immaculate Conception of Mary in the Orthodox Churches, logic would follow that they cannot be saved. This is not true, and Rome has said as much. The Eastern Orthodox even have a differing viewpoint in some ways on the concept of original sin than we do in the west.

There are numerous threads on these three subjects.

FrRobSST:

To be in material schism and dissent, one has to have originally been a fully initiated member of the Church united with Rome. I have never been such. I am a Christian who has been fully initiated in a Church other than the Roman Church.

Check with your great great great great great great grandfather. You will find that your heritage is Catholic.

FrRobSST:

To make a genuine judgement call on that issue, however, you would actually have to examine our documentation and evidence.

You are a reformed Catholic. That is a protestant.

FrRobSST:

According to Augustine’s theology, any validly ordained bishop can transmit holy orders even when he is in a state of schism. They are ilicit, but they are still valid. That is the state we are in, as acknowledged by several Roman Catholic statements on the orders of Old Catholics and Oriental Orthodox, from whom we derive our lines of succession.

I’ll take your word on that. Illicit but valid is possible. However, according to your beliefs, Augustine is inconsequential because he’s not an early church father.

FrRobSST:

And let us pray together for the day when all of us will allow ourselves to be conformed to Christ’s call for unity - myself included.

Amen

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_3_15.gif

 

[Church_Militant]

Doctrines have changed. The early Church didn’t believe anyone was in heaven, with the only noted exception being the possibility that some of the Fathers left open for the Martyrs to be enjoying the Beatific Vision. They all believed that the faithful departed were in Paradise, not heaven, awaiting the General Resurrection.

Then I suspect that you disagree with St. John in Revelation when he portrays all the saints in heaven…

 

[AndyF]

adstrinity:

Now, admittingly, praying the Rosary has always worked for me, but, I mean, there IS part of me that is skeptical. While the faith was being attacked on another site, an ex-Catholic said that Mary & saints cannot hear prayers & another said that “You don’t need her.” I was shocked, angered, & saddened by this. For my own knowledge (I just want to have proof for myself), can saints and Mary hear prayers? Biblical sources would be helpful, early Church writtings would be good, too. …Anybody have any personal experiences here?

ALSO, can the devil hear the prayers of the faithful?

Our guardian angels communicate with the subject of the prayer. The communication is an instantaneous one, not one of using sound and voice. So the rosaries are presented to Mary who has the added distinction as Queen of Heaven intercedes for the devoted. This of course is the essence of the rosary. The wishes of Mary always get special attention and top priority.

As part of his mission, the guardian angel takes special pleasure in one specific favor on our behalf, and that is he will complete the rosaries we do not complete through no fault of our own.

Prayers are communication, so any word uttered from God could not be heard by demons unless God wished it, as it’s source is the Being which all good can only emanate, the reception of it would be alien to him. At exorcisms the name of God cannot be said by demons, only references made in the third person. In one particular case the priests were trying to understand what a specific word the possessing demon was refering to, until they finally understood. They can hear our prayers, but any reference to the Divine causes them great anguish. Our prayers bring on envy and anger. On occasion while praying some saints have experienced demons persuading them their prayers are worthless and futile.

Andy

 

[chadwilliams]

Sir Knight:

We are taught by the church that the saints can hear our prayers. At the same time we are also told that they are not Omniscious because only God is Omniscious.

At last count, there were about 6 billion peope in the world and 17% of them are believed to be Catholic which is 1,020,000,000. Assuming only 1% of them say one rosary a day, that’s over a million rosaries (1,020,000 to be exact). There are only 86,400 seconds in a day.

How can Mary hear all of these prayers if she wasn’t Omniscious – which the church tells us she ins’t nor are any of the other saints.

You are trying to think of Heaven and Eternity in our limited, mortal, flawed, insufficient human way of thinking.

We cannot fully understand many, many doctrines of our faith, but yet, we still believe.

Do you fully understand the Trinity? Be honest. It is impossible to FULLY understand the Trinity. We can come close to explaining it, but it isn’t even the tip of the iceberg.

Don’t overanalyze it. Just have faith. Keep praying!

 

[Mickey]

Here is an exellent article on the intercession of saints from Catholic Answers. I apologize if it’s already been posted.

catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp

 

[Sir_Knight]

TNT:

How can you be so ignorant which you will say you are not.

1. Mary has a secretary and keeps the prayers in order, first come first served, on sticky notes.
2. Mary is a speed reader in 500 languages. She learned them in only 180 years.
3. Jesus gave her a Rolex Watch to keep time and appointments.
   alas,
   Unfortunately time DOESN’T EXIST IN ETERNITY, THAT’S WHY IT’S CALLED ETERNITY!
   I GUESS YOU THINK THERE WAS A “LAST NITE” IN ETERNITY? YEP, YOU DO. AND TOMOROW AFTERNOON ALSO. YEP, YOU DO.
   Maybe you could invent a new Prot word to describe your idea of time-clocks in eternity…how about ETERNITIME.

Yes, I am ignorant (lacking in information) about certain things which is what I thought that these forums were for – to share what we know and learn what we don’t. I asked a question which I’ve seen frequently raised and I was unsure how to address it. Thank you for your very rude reply. Apparently, you know everything and feel that you have a right to be condensending to those that don’t know something. That is very Christ-like of you. Once again, thank you for your reply. You are a fine example of how Catholics should answer honest & sincere questions about the faith.

• … and they will know we are Christians by our love, by our love. Oh yes, they will know we are Christians by our love … *

 

[edwinG]

Curious:

Actually I’m a Protestant - not ex.

And VociMike thanks for that great post. It helps…somewhat at least.

Hi Curious,
Hebrews 7:22 By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant 23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing 24 but He , because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Curious, stay away from praying to the “Dead.”
Believe the scripture. Only God Him alone. The bible is so full of stories saying He will not allow anyone else take the glory or come to Him through their efforts or through someone else’s efforts. He is fully capable.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[FrRobSST]

edwinG:

Hi Curious,
Hebrews 7:22 By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant 23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing 24 but He , because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Curious, stay away from praying to the “Dead.”
Believe the scripture. Only God Him alone. The bible is so full of stories saying He will not allow anyone else take the glory or come to Him through their efforts or through someone else’s efforts. He is fully capable.
walk in love
edwinG

edwinG

While I understand your point of view, I believe you could find a scripture that might better support your point of view. Using this particular scripture from Hebrews is a misapplication because the context is regarding the Old Testament priesthood and it’s connection to Jesus Christ and the forgiveness of sins. It has nothing to do with anything in the temporal world after the time of Jesus Christ’s temporal existence.

The jist of the above noted scripture is that the priests of the Hebrews (to whom the letter is written, thus the context) had a ministry that could not transcend death. When they died, they were unable to physically ascend to the Altar and offer any of the prescribed sacrifices for sin. Jesus, the author of the New Covenant between God and Man in his blood, took to the altar of the Cross, and his blood streches from end to end of the temporal continuuim… his sacrifice, his once for all sacrifice, is the propitiation (perfect atonement) for our sins.

This citation from Hebrews has nothing to do with the concept of the intercession of the saints.

Rob+

 

[Ignatius]

Let’s take a simple step back… Can the dead hear the living?

Friend, Those who die in friendship with Christ are Alive! As Holy Scripture clearly says that those who are apart from the body are alive with Christ.