Can science prove the world is over 4 billion yrs. old?

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As we are already know that there are discrepancies between archaeological and biblical estimations of the Earth’s age. The chronologies supplied with the genealogies from Adam to Abraham prohibit the Earth from being as old as the archaeological time-scale indicates.

While this is true, I do feel that the genealogical records occasionally may contain gaps; this does not contradict the force of the chronologies attached to them. In Genesis 5:3, Seth for instance was a distant relative of Adam, yet, Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born. We cannot dismiss biblical chronology simply by assuming genealogical gaps.

Time-scale archaeologically specify that the Palaeolithic era dated back to 700,000 years. Archaeologically, the settlement at Tell es-Sultan (lower planes of Jordan Valley) dates back to Neolithic approx 8000 B.C. Such places as Tell es-Sultan would most likely accumulated after the Flood. Setting forces of Creation back several thousand more years than allowed by biblical chronology.

Archaeology supports evolutions based on theory that the Earth is ancient – at this point 4.54 billion years based on radiometric age dating of meteorite material. Part of that theory is that the earth developed progressively both physically and intellectually over a very long period of time. The evolution of Homo-sapiens appeared around 30 – 20,000 B.C, where over time man slowly evolved to be able to use tools.

This hypothesis is in variance with biblical revelation. At the dawn of Creation, Man was highly intelligent and possessed the ability to manufacture tools and musical instruments from metals - Genesis 4:20-22. Descendants of Noah preserved the technical aptitude for making tools and weapons, so that rapid cultural recovery and restoration after the Great Flood. In ancient history there was an integration of culture from the Middle East into Egypt which directly corresponds to Genesis 11:8-9. With this migration into Egypt, there was an introduction of culture and technology that was more advanced to the area.

Archaeological evidence is fragmentary and greatly limited. Although the quantity of potsherds, bones, ornaments, tools collected from a given sites, the evidence still only reflects a small fraction of what existed in antiquity. This type of information is often insufficient and inconclusive with subjective interpretation. Archaeological information to this date remains insufficient to establish the exact date or cause of Tell es-Sultan demise. Archaeologists may petition to evidence that conflict with the biblical text, we need to listen and remain sceptical of their theories.

With insufficiency of archaeological evidence it allows for imagination to flourish, often with rather conflicting conclusions. Certainly, archaeology remains most helpful amongst those who study the Bible often validating and revealing biblical texts. Archaeology does have its limitations. The dating methods used like radiocarbon, are open to errors of interpretation. Further, we should be aware of the current anti-biblical trend among many archaeologists. Archaeological interpretations are in a constant state of instability and often wither as grass, God’s Word stands eternally.
 
Can’t resist the Ad Hominems can you?

Put your facts on the table and we can debate, otherwise just lurk and learn.😦
The facts are all already on the table. You just have your eyes closed. Try actually learning through the years of study it takes to learn all of this stuff. Without some background or education in evolution (which you clearly have none), it would be no easier to explain it to you than it would be to explain vector calculus to someone who just learned their multiplication tables.
 
I do feel that the genealogical records occasionally may contain gaps
Indeed they do. My favourite example is Matthew 1:1 “This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham” Just a few gaps there I think.

Obviously, in this passage in Matthew it is better to read “son of” as meaning “descendant of”.

rossum
 
Just so we all have a baseline here…

Can someone explain in detail the process of radiological dating?
If you are genuinely interested there are some pretty accessible articles on wiki. This one is about the age of the earth and covers the basics of radiometric dating in practical terms and how it’s been applied (and a bit of a potted history).

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth

This one gives more information on the process itself and touches on related processes as well.*

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

Incidentally the various theological and mythological ageing estimates of the world are covered here.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_Creation

Other evidence for age of the universe being older than 6000 years exist such as sedimentary records, geological records etc, the light from distant stars which is already reaching us, the civilisations which were around before that time. Take a look at the copper age for example.

Of course it is possible to postulate a God who created all these things 6000 years ago “pre-aged” (already looking millions or billions of years old). But then you might as well go with last Tuesday and postulate a God who created us last Tuesday with memories of the earlier parts of our lives pre-implanted as well.
 
As to “one way to appear”, then yes. Decay series are well known. If an element can appear through two different paths then it is not used for dating, for exactly that reason.
Are we really so arrogent as to believe that certain elements that appear on earth appear in only one way at only one time?
 
As we are already know that there are discrepancies between archaeological and biblical estimations of the Earth’s age. The chronologies supplied with the genealogies from Adam to Abraham prohibit the Earth from being as old as the archaeological time-scale indicates.
Your assumption there is that Adam was really made in a 24 hour day a few days after creation.
The bible does not tell us that.

In actuality, the bible goes out of its way to obscure what precisely a ‘day’ is.
 
Buffalo, you really should stop calling everything you don’t know the answer to an assumption. You don’t know the answer, but that’s because you don’t have the years of education necessary to understand, nor, from what I can tell, have you tried to find it. For what reason do you conclude that how much there is to begin with is an assumption?
Perhaps you can explain how this is not an assumption.
 
The best science is the one that is not afraid to not know the answer.
And it appears to me that many are willing to accept assumptions rather then simply accept what we do not know.
Fair enough, imho that’s great when applied across the board, the problem is when we never examine our assumptions, leading to superstitions, or never allow reasoned assumptions, leading to outright cynicism.
 
:hmmm: Everyone believed and taught that decay rates were constant. Oops…As I posted, let us see what develops…
Heh, you found three reports about the exact same research :rolleyes:, which has yet to be replicated :rolleyes:, which found a possible variation of < 0.01% :rolleyes:.

Though it does show that science isn’t afraid to question and correct itself to better explain new observations, for which thanks :cool:.

Noting that if this result is correct it only changes the estimated age of the world by a few centuries, and anyway the Hubble line, independent of decay rates, says the universe is 1 million times older than YEC.
Get real - a YEC article in a science journal? The gatekeepers will not allow it.
Perhaps because YEC isn’t science. Alternatively there could indeed be a worldwide conspiracy to hide the truth about Santa Claus. 😃
Connect the dots, sprinkle some time on it and voila a paradigm shift happens.
You mean like after three bottles of wine? :takeoff:
 
Now the RATE groups claim was radioactive decay was not constant. Of course they were trashed by the old earth establishment.
Never heard of them but a quick search showed loads of critiques (“An Insatiable Appetite for Baloney:D) and it seems that they claimed a variation of > 50,000,000% rather than the potential < 0.01% found by the “old earth establishment”, a.k.a. scientists.
And now what do we see? :hmmm:They were right after all.
You mean like after three bottles of wine? :takeoff:
 
Perhaps you can explain how this is not an assumption.
No I can’t, but this is because a background in the subject is necessary to understand it in the first place. (I think I said that already) I might as well try to explain Catholic theology to someone in Klingon. (not that I know Klingon)
 
Archaeological interpretations are in a constant state of instability and often wither as grass, God’s Word stands eternally.
Hi, I’m in Spain and so know little of this YEC which seems so trendy in the States. You’re the first to attempt a positive case, so perhaps you can answer my question.

A lost soul walks into your church looking for help. Do you tell her about Christ or debate her on the age of the world? Assuming the former, what possible relevance does the age of the world, which isn’t even mentioned in scripture, have to our trust in Christ?

To put it much more strongly, however it first arose, the homeland of this belief is now in the US (Protestants as well as Catholics?), so should I take it to be a whimsical piece of American folklore, along the lines of Bigfoot and Halloween, or the reason why Christ died on the cross?

I know that’s well over the top, apologies, but while this debate is a lot of fun I’m really struggling to understand why I, as a Christian, should care at all about the age of the world.
 
No I can’t, but this is because a background in the subject is necessary to understand it in the first place. (I think I said that already) I might as well try to explain Catholic theology to someone in Klingon. (not that I know Klingon)
Then what business have you making the accusation?
 
Hi, I’m in Spain and so know little of this YEC which seems so trendy in the States.
At what point in this thread did this become a question of a 6000 year old earth?

I thought this had to do with the inability of science to prove the age of the earth.
 
I know that’s well over the top, apologies, but while this debate is a lot of fun I’m really struggling to understand why I, as a Christian, should care at all about the age of the world.
If you really want to fuss about trivialities…I am on another thread where we are actually debating the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.😉

In the general scheme of things, the actual age of the earth does not matter to our salvation.

But there is a line of thought that is important.
Are we to accept truth when we see it?
How are we to discern it when it is there?

It is in how we handle basic logic that also will tie into how we will respond to God.
Will we fall into whatever is popular or will we follow the truth?
We do not know how old the earth is. We have no truly reliable way of discerning it.
We can make reasonable assumptions based upon evidence, but as buffalo has pointed out, that evidence can have more then one conclusion…and it likely can change unexpectedly.
To lay claim to more then that is to accept a falsehood, and that will in turn become an impediment when faced with the ultimate truth.
 
Are we really so arrogent as to believe that certain elements that appear on earth appear in only one way at only one time?
So, what other ways do you know of for elements to appear? Perhaps leprechauns make then pop into existence, or is it fairies?

We can determine decay sequences by observation in the laboratory. If you doubt the results you are at liberty to repeat the experiments for yourself.

There is more uncertainty about the composition of the Bible than there is about the appearance of elements in decay sequences.

rossum
 
At what point in this thread did this become a question of a 6000 year old earth?
The OP relates the age of the Earth to God. The only people I know of who think it’s important to relate the age of the Earth to God are YECs. If it’s important to anyone else then they haven’t posted yet.
I thought this had to do with the inability of science to prove the age of the earth.
It’s been said many times that science is about reasonable doubt. Anyone who thinks they have an unbreakable proof for the age of the world to the nearest millisecond is, by definition, not doing science.
 
If you really want to fuss about trivialities…I am on another thread where we are actually debating the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.😉
I’ve said all along that the age of the world makes no difference to me, you can go back through the thread and see that. But it does seem to make a big difference to YECs, so to them its not a triviality.
*Are we to accept truth when we see it?
How are we to discern it when it is there?
*
God gave us a mind.
Will we fall into whatever is popular or will we follow the truth?
It appears that YEC is popular in the US so I take it you’re saying they’re just following a popular band wagon.
We do not know how old the earth is. We have no truly reliable way of discerning it.
We can make reasonable assumptions based upon evidence, but as buffalo has pointed out, that evidence can have more then one conclusion…and it likely can change unexpectedly.
To lay claim to more then that is to accept a falsehood, and that will in turn become an impediment when faced with the ultimate truth.
Take it to any circuit judge and I predict she’ll rule there are lots of strands of evidence and the science case is well beyond reasonable doubt. We’re not called to be nihilists.
 
It appears that YEC is popular in the US so I take it you’re saying they’re just following a popular band wagon.
Your perception is flawed.
The concept of a 6000 year old earth is not a popular one in the US.
Take it to any circuit judge and I predict she’ll rule there are lots of strands of evidence and the science case is well beyond reasonable doubt. We’re not called to be nihilists.
You would like a scientific matter to be determined by a legal body instead of the science?
 
The facts are all already on the table. You just have your eyes closed. Try actually learning through the years of study it takes to learn all of this stuff. Without some background or education in evolution (which you clearly have none), it would be no easier to explain it to you than it would be to explain vector calculus to someone who just learned their multiplication tables.
You have no idea what I know, studied, and for how long about evolution and other branches of science.
 
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