Can science prove the world is over 4 billion yrs. old?

[Dale_M]

He doesn’t have to follow a man’s reasoning that everything has to created in some orderly fashion.

Yes, that is true. However, God also doesn’t have to follow a man’s reasoning that he would create the world in a some random fashion.

What we know from divine revelation is that God intended the world to be an orderly place. And this gives us good reason to accept the evidence of the physical laws of the universe that the Earth is more than 4 billion years old.

 

[jasonfan]

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[SwizzleStick]

Reported post #42.

 

[valentino]

Some wedding dresssay Cleopatra is “cheap white gownsthe Banshee

of the Nile” and“the garter snake of the nile”. While other people say she is the lover of poets wonderful prom dressesall over the world. The Romans hetes her deeply for Roman has nearly became a province of Egypt. While Egyptians eulogize her for she has win 22 peacefull years for

Egypt. Octavianusv invaded Egyptian in 30.B.C. With the Suicide of Cleopatra, Egyptian was incorporated to Roman, and the cultrue of oid egypt went to over.A recently research have studied that Cleopatra has protected her party cocktail dress not just relied on her beautyTop Organza Wedding Dress. The

techniques she used has cheap wedding dresses difference with International relations in the morden world. This is where her wisdom

reflected.

Actuallystrapless cocktail dress, in the times of Cleopatra, old Egypt has still

keep a gorgerous wedding dresses. Blocks and statues, one by one. That is nest builded by Cleopatra and Anthony----city of Alexanderbridal online shop. The discovery wholesale wedding dressesof alexander has proved that

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Its just funny how willing people will accept this and yet when you speak of Jesus some want to say that He never even existed.

 

[inocente]

He did: “God also said; Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered together into one place: and let the dry land appear. And it was so done.” - Genesis 1:9

You could be right and usually are :bowdown2:.

My reading is that creating the heavens would include creating the waters since they were all up there before the sky vault was made to separate the waters above from the seas below. The stars and the two great lights are in this sky vault so the heavenly waters would be beyond them. I could well be wrong, not having much understanding of ancient cosmologies, but the writer might have found a telescope darned handy.

 

[inocente]

Why do you think God has to start something like the big bang(if you believe that)and everything has to be crreated in some chronological order?If God said "let there be light"did He have to have a big bang with gases and molecules forming and bumping togeher to form the sun?God can create in any fashion He chooses.He doesn’t have to follow a man’s reasoning that everything has to created in some orderly fashion.

Tim1 the theorist says, without any physical evidence, God made everything in an instant x years ago. Tim2 the theorist has no evidence either but says no, it didn’t happen like that, the world is a different age. Tim3 says no to both, it’s some other age, Tim4 something else, etc.

Meanwhile Sue the scientist says there’s a good chance the world is z years old plus or minus y, on the basis of findings a, b, c, d, etc., and we can see all the physical evidence plus the work of everyone involved before making up our mind.

I suppose it’s possible Sue could be wrong and also possible one of the Tim clones is right, but if for some reason it’s important to know the age of the world then it must be equally important to work it out as carefully as possible, and then for me Sue wins every time because she got her hands dirty gathering evidence and her reasoning is open minded.

 

[Lui]

Some believe God created earth in a much,much shorter period of time.

Many people believe many different things. Some people believe they were kidnapped by aliens. It all boils down to how much proof there is and what you want to believe.
I believe science’s belief that the earth is about 4 billion years old has much more proof than creationism has that believes the earth is about 5000 years old…

 

[valentino]

Many people believe many different things. Some people believe they were kidnapped by aliens. It all boils down to how much proof there is and what you want to believe.
I believe science’s belief that the earth is about 4 billion years old has much more proof than creationism has that believes the earth is about 5000 years old…

I still don’t see how you can prove that the earth has been in existence for 4 billion yrs.I know how they come to that figure but the earth didn’t have to go through the many stages that scientist say it did to get where it is today.God could have created it a some pt.in time,with the mountains and the grand canyon pretty much as you see them today.But of course if you do believe that the earth did have to evolve over the 4billion yrs.then you also believe in the big bang and the creation of the universe which was its result.

 

[Lui]

But of course if you do believe that the earth did have to evolve over the 4billion yrs.then you also believe in the big bang and the creation of the universe which was its result.

Not necessarily. How God created the whole universe is not that important to me. It is more important THAT he created the universe. What I don’t believe is that the earth is 5000 years old and that dinosaurs and humans lived together like the Flintstones. This creationism theory is absurd and ignorant to me. When I think that a politician like Sarah Palin believes this, I just roll my eyes.
I believe more or less in the theory of evolution but that it all comes from God.

 

[Khalid]

I still don’t see how you can prove that the earth has been in existence for 4 billion yrs.I know how they come to that figure but the earth didn’t have to go through the many stages that scientist say it did to get where it is today.God could have created it a some pt.in time,with the mountains and the grand canyon pretty much as you see them today.But of course if you do believe that the earth did have to evolve over the 4billion yrs.then you also believe in the big bang and the creation of the universe which was its result.

We’ve already answered you several times, and you keep asking the same question.

You never prove anything in science. You demonstrate, and this has been demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt. Yet you keep saying, “prove”.

A God that did that would be Satan, and I would not worship him, as he would be a god of lies and confusion. Now bugger off and read a book. Please. We are not responsible for your idiocy.

 

[buffalo]

Not necessarily. How God created the whole universe is not that important to me. It is more important THAT he created the universe. What I don’t believe is that the earth is 5000 years old and that dinosaurs and humans lived together like the Flintstones. This creationism theory is absurd and ignorant to me. When I think that a politician like Sarah Palin believes this, I just roll my eyes.
I believe more or less in the theory of evolution but that it all comes from God.

I would like your thoughts on dinosaur soft tissue found said to be 70 million years old.

 

[Lui]

I would like your thoughts on dinosaur soft tissue found said to be 70 million years old.

Yawn, your fundamentalists views are getting tiresome.:yawn::yawn::yawn:
If you want to believe that the earth is 5000 years old, which the Pope and the Catholic Church doesn’t, go ahead. I’ll go with the Church. A priest told me that it is impossible to argue with fundamentalists and he was right

 

[buffalo]

Yawn, your fundamentalists views are getting tiresome.:yawn::yawn::yawn:
If you want to believe that the earth is 5000 years old, which the Pope and the Catholic Church doesn’t, go ahead. I’ll go with the Church. A priest told me that it is impossible to argue with fundamentalists and he was right

Uhhh - this is not a view. This is what science discovered. I would like your thoughts on it.

So is your claim that soft tissue was not found? If so, I need a source.

 

[rossum]

Uhhh - this is not a view. This is what science discovered. I would like your thoughts on it.

So is your claim that soft tissue was not found? If so, I need a source.

One of the problems with arguing with fundamentalists is PRATTs. “Points Refuted A Thousand Times”. When they are shown evidence they go quiet, but they do not update their incorrect sources, and another fundamentalist will come along with exactly the same PRATT later. Sometimes it is the same fundamentalist with the same PRATT.

Tell me buffalo, is there any evidence at all that will convince you that the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old and that species arose by evolution form a common ancestor?

However, on the case in point, have a look at Did Dinosaur Soft Tissues Still Survive? New Research Challenges Notion.

rossum

 

[buffalo]

One of the problems with arguing with fundamentalists is PRATTs. “Points Refuted A Thousand Times”. When they are shown evidence they go quiet, but they do not update their incorrect sources, and another fundamentalist will come along with exactly the same PRATT later. Sometimes it is the same fundamentalist with the same PRATT.

Tell me buffalo, is there any evidence at all that will convince you that the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old and that species arose by evolution form a common ancestor?

However, on the case in point, have a look at Did Dinosaur Soft Tissues Still Survive? New Research Challenges Notion.

rossum

Yes rossum, that link has been shown a few time already. Look at the newest ones. There is no doubt soft tissue has been found and in a number of fossils.

So either soft tissue can survive 70 million years or not. It is that simple. What say you?

 

[Lui]

Uhhh - this is not a view. This is what science discovered. I would like your thoughts on it.

So is your claim that soft tissue was not found? If so, I need a source.

There are some scientists who claim that Schweitzer’s findings might just be slime from bacteria but even Schweitzer, who made this discovery and is being pressured by fanatical creationists, doesn’t believe in creationist’s theories of a young Earth:

"While scientists struggled to make sense of the bones, another community had no doubt about how to interpret the results. The reports were quickly embraced by biblical literalists who believe God created life on Earth less than 10,000 years ago. For decades they have been working to place a scientific patina on their ideas. The Institute for Creation Research runs a graduate school near San Diego with 11 instructors who hold doctorates in biochemistry, geology, and other sciences. Conferences offer papers on topics like the physics of the Genesis flood. “Any time there’s empirical evidence, that’s gold for them,” says Ronald Numbers, a professor of the history of science and medicine at the University of Wisconsin at Madison.

**To Schweitzer, trying to prove your religious beliefs through empirical evidence is absurd, if not sacrilegious. “If God is who He says He is, He doesn’t need us to twist and contort scientific data,” she says. “The thing that’s most important to God is our faith. Therefore, He’s not going to allow Himself to be proven by scientific methodologies.” **

Some creationists, noting Schweitzer’s evangelical faith, have tried to pressure her into siding with them. “It is high time that the ‘Scientific’ community comes clean: meaning that the public is going to hold them ACCOUNTABLE when they find out that they have been misled,” reads a recent e-mail message Schweitzer received. She has received dozens of similar notes, a few of them outright menacing.

**These religious attacks wound her far more than the scientific ones. “It rips my guts out,” she says. "These people are claiming to represent the Christ that I love. They’re not doing a very good job. It’s no wonder that a lot of my colleagues are atheists."She told one zealot, “You know, if the only picture of Christ I had was your attitude towards me, I’d run.” **

Ironically, the insides of Cretaceous-era dinosaur bones have only deepened Schweitzer’s faith. “My God has gotten so much bigger since I’ve been a scientist,” she says. “He doesn’t stay in my boxes.”
discovermagazine.com/2006/apr/dinosaur-dna/article_view?b_start:int=1&-C=

I find it sad how Schweitzer is being hassled by fundamentalists to prove their theories. They harm religion and faithful Christians with their extremist views IMO.

 

[buffalo]

There are some scientists who claim that Schweitzer’s findings might just be slime from bacteria but even Schweitzer, who made this discovery and is being pressured by fanatical creationists, doesn’t believe in creationist’s theories of a young Earth:

"While scientists struggled to make sense of the bones, another community had no doubt about how to interpret the results. The reports were quickly embraced by biblical literalists who believe God created life on Earth less than 10,000 years ago. For decades they have been working to place a scientific patina on their ideas. The Institute for Creation Research runs a graduate school near San Diego with 11 instructors who hold doctorates in biochemistry, geology, and other sciences. Conferences offer papers on topics like the physics of the Genesis flood. “Any time there’s empirical evidence, that’s gold for them,” says Ronald Numbers, a professor of the history of science and medicine at the University of Wisconsin at Madison.

**To Schweitzer, trying to prove your religious beliefs through empirical evidence is absurd, if not sacrilegious. “If God is who He says He is, He doesn’t need us to twist and contort scientific data,” she says. “The thing that’s most important to God is our faith. Therefore, He’s not going to allow Himself to be proven by scientific methodologies.” **

Some creationists, noting Schweitzer’s evangelical faith, have tried to pressure her into siding with them. “It is high time that the ‘Scientific’ community comes clean: meaning that the public is going to hold them ACCOUNTABLE when they find out that they have been misled,” reads a recent e-mail message Schweitzer received. She has received dozens of similar notes, a few of them outright menacing.

These religious attacks wound her far more than the scientific ones. “It rips my guts out,” she says. “These people are claiming to represent the Christ that I love. They’re not doing a very good job. It’s no wonder that a lot of my colleagues are atheists.” She told one zealot, "You know, if the only picture of Christ I had was your attitude towards me, I’d run."

Ironically, the insides of Cretaceous-era dinosaur bones have only deepened Schweitzer’s faith. “My God has gotten so much bigger since I’ve been a scientist,” she says. “He doesn’t stay in my boxes.”
discovermagazine.com/2006/apr/dinosaur-dna/article_view?b_start:int=1&-C=

I find it sad how Schweitzer is being hassled by fundamentalists to prove their theories. They harm religion and faithful Christians with their extremist views IMO.

"While scientists struggled to make sense of the bones, another community had no doubt about how to interpret the results. The reports were quickly embraced by biblical literalists who believe God created life on Earth less than 10,000 years ago. For decades they have been working to place a scientific patina on their ideas. The Institute for Creation Research runs a graduate school near San Diego with 11 instructors who hold doctorates in biochemistry, geology, and other sciences. Conferences offer papers on topics like the physics of the Genesis flood. “Any time there’s empirical evidence, that’s gold for them,” says Ronald Numbers, a professor of the history of science and medicine at the University of Wisconsin at Madison.

Link?

Are you aware of the other findings for soft tissue or is your rebuttal based on just this one?

 

[Lui]

Link?

Are you aware of the other findings for soft tissue or is your rebuttal based on just this one?

Use Schweitzer’s answer as my answer:“If God is who He says He is, He doesn’t need us to twist and contort scientific data,” she says. "The thing that’s most important to God is our faith. Therefore, He’s not going to allow Himself to be proven by scientific methodologies.

Amen.

 

[buffalo]

Use Schweitzer’s answer as my answer:“If God is who He says He is, He doesn’t need us to twist and contort scientific data,” she says. "The thing that’s most important to God is our faith. Therefore, He’s not going to allow Himself to be proven by scientific methodologies.

Amen.

That is it? So you close your mind to the other findings. :banghead:

 

[Lui]

That is it? So you close your mind to the other findings. :banghead:

No, I close my mind to fanatic fundamentalist views. Why is it so important to you to convince people to join the creationism club when not even the Pope wants to join?