Can science prove the world is over 4 billion yrs. old?

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buffalo said:
I have continuously shown the constant teaching and understanding of the Church. IDvolution references that. Those teachings have not changed. Baptists believed it too (since you too were Catholic 50 years ago). The issue here is scientism. Many modernistic Catholics have given in to it.
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You’ve stopped discussing your idvolution idea for some reason, on the very thread you created to discuss it. I don’t know of any Baptists who were Catholics 50 years ago. The issue here is why some Christians label other Christians who don’t jump to their command.
 
buffalo said:
Is there a SQUIRM emoticon?
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I once saw Catholics debating how the Presence in the Eucharist could be explained by quantum physics :eek::eek::eek:. Now that made me squirm, this thread isn’t in the same league.

But can you or any other YEC answer my question? A lost soul walks into your church. Do you tell her about Christ or the age of the Earth? If the latter then how does it help her, if the former then what’s the age of the world got to do with trust in Christ? :confused:
 
inocente said:
I once saw Catholics debating how the Presence in the Eucharist could be explained by quantum physics :eek::eek::eek:. Now that made me squirm, this thread isn’t in the same league.

But can you or any other YEC answer my question? A lost soul walks into your church. Do you tell her about Christ or the age of the Earth? If the latter then how does it help her, if the former then what’s the age of the world got to do with trust in Christ? :confused:
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Christ!..what He did and does for us and the fact He established the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church for their salvation.
 
inocente said:
You’ve stopped discussing your idvolution idea for some reason, on the very thread you created to discuss it. I don’t know of any Baptists who were Catholics 50 years ago. The issue here is why some Christians label other Christians who don’t jump to their command.
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I always am discussing IDvolution. :confused: What thread???/
 
buffalo said:
The deceiver God is bogus - if one was walking along the beach and saw left footprints as far as one could see should he conclude a deceiver was at work?
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No, one might conclude the walker was over the horizon. But if the footprint was between layers of volcanic ash 1.5 million years old, one might reasonably conclude the footprint is the same age, given the assumption that God isn’t a deceiver of course.

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn16673/dn16673-1_300.jpg
newscientist.com/article/dn16673-fossil-footprints-reveal-our-modern-walk-in-the-making.html

There’s loads of these, search for “fossil footprints” on google images. No doubt someone will say all those scientists were naive, unsophisticated marks.
 
inocente said:
No, one might conclude the walker was over the horizon. But if the footprint was between layers of volcanic ash 1.5 million years old, one might reasonably conclude the footprint is the same age, given the assumption that God isn’t a deceiver of course.

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn16673/dn16673-1_300.jpg
newscientist.com/article/dn16673-fossil-footprints-reveal-our-modern-walk-in-the-making.html

There’s loads of these, search for “fossil footprints” on google images. No doubt someone will say all those scientists were naive, unsophisticated marks.
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Right on! The fact that we do not have all the info does not make God a deceiver. In addition. there are just some things we cannot know.
 
buffalo said:
Christ!..what He did and does for us and the fact He established the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church for their salvation.
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Great, I take it we’re agreed then that the age of the world has nothing to do with being a Christian.
 
buffalo said:
Right on! The fact that we do not have all the info does not make God a deceiver. In addition. there are just some things we cannot know.
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What info are we missing and what in principle can’t we know about footprints? :confused:
 
People want to believe and teach anything they want or refuse to accept any obvious evidence to the contrary- racism, religions, the age of the earth, politics - any topic. There is a FLAT EARTH SOCIETY !:eek:
 
HOLY_POOH_FAN said:
People want to believe and teach anything they want or refuse to accept any obvious evidence to the contrary- racism, religions, the age of the earth, politics - any topic. There is a FLAT EARTH SOCIETY !:eek:
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Not sure about the earth, but our world is indeed flat. Travel far enough in any direction and you will surely fall off the edge of the world; you will fall into reality!
 
What makes me wonder is what YECs think happened to the dinosaurs. When did they live and die out according to their theory? Did they die in the flood because they didn’t fit on Noah’s ark or what is their official explanation? When did the Neanderthals live?
 
I
HOLY_POOH_FAN said:
People want to believe and teach anything they want or refuse to accept any obvious evidence to the contrary- racism, religions, the age of the earth, politics - any topic. There is a FLAT EARTH SOCIETY !:eek:
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The Myth of the Flat Earth

ntroduction

We all know that Christopher Columbus encountered stiff resistance about his idea of sailing off West to try and reach the East Indies. Many of us have laboured under the impression that people were concerned that he would sail off the edge of the Earth which was widely believed to be flat. History is thought to have vindicated Columbus against those filled with the Christian superstition of a flat Earth who held on to old fashioned beliefs. A minority of people are even under the impression that Galileo’s trial centred on the subject rather than whether the Earth orbited the sun.
It comes as some surprise, therefore, to find that Columbus was wrong and his critics were right - not because the world is actually flat after all, but because at the time everyone knew it was a globe and were arguing about how big it was. The idea that the uncouth people of the Middle Ages thought the Earth was flat is an example of the myth that has been propagated since the nineteenth century to give us a quite unfair view of this vibrant and exciting period.

more…
 
inocente said:
What info are we missing and what in principle can’t we know about footprints? :confused:
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Now see what you have done? You have changed the challenge.

me - The deceiver God is bogus - if one was walking along the beach and saw left footprints as far as one could see should he conclude a deceiver was at work?

The clear answer is no.

There are a few solutions to this challenge. Now I said nothing about a volcanic beach. You made an assumption though.
  1. A guy missing a right foot did it
  2. By design someone walked purposely right at the edge so that the waves washed away the right imprint
  3. You arrived an hour too late
  4. Someone actually did mask the right footprint, just because they thought it was fun
  5. Someone was hopping down the beach.
    there are other possibilities…
The point is very different conclusions can be reached by researchers studying these foot prints.

Continuing on you come across a guy writing down what he witnessed regarding the footprints. Should you ask him how they were made? Would you necessarily believe what he told you even if it went against the consensus of the researchers?
 
Lui said:
I find this video quite interesting:

Intelligent Design and Creationism/Evolution Controversy
youtube.com/watch?v=PE3Qvfm8jU0&feature=related
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There the atheist goes again - she gets ID, the science wrong again. Sounds desperate.

Nothing new here. One cannot be a Christian and a scientist. She gets the ID side wrong by saying they wrote a textbook first then tried to prove it. ID is not a new concept at all. Catholic understanding that the universe was intelligible began modern science. The materialists have eliminated this fundamental concept from their thinking. She still is showing a tree, while we now know it is a bush, the tree of life has fallen. “We are all equally related to fish” - LOL Yawn…Accuses the ID’ers of an agenda, but NCSE has one too. (Not to let the Divine foot in the door)

Again, the John Lennox lecture deals with this quite well.
 
Lui said:
Kenneth Miller is a Roman Catholic though. Here’s a video with a lecture from him
on Intelligent Design:
youtube.com/watch?v=Ohd5uqzlwsU&feature=related
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More of the same - a rundown on the history of the debate.

I have dealt with this and through another poster actually tried to get some answers from him on facilitated variation. As I remember, he conceded it.

But his main issue is the chromosome fusion:

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Figure 1. This animated gif shows how even if the empirical genetic evidence mandates a chromosomal fusion event, this doesn’t tell you anything about whether or not humans share ancestry with apes. The “Separate Ancestry” slide shows that the chromosomal fusion event may have simply taken place in a separately-designed basic type which, initially, had 48 chromosomes. The “Common Ancestry” slide shows how the chromosomal fusion event may have also taken place in a line which led back to a hypothetical common ancestor of humans and modern apes. The point is that all we have is evidence for a fusion event, but that fusion event is equally compatible with either separate ancestry from apes, or common ancestry with apes. The fusion event itself does not provide any independent evidence for common ancestry with apes. To argue that it is evidence for common ancestry requires special pleading.
 
Lui said:
“Scott jokes that she sometimes thinks her first name is “Atheist” for the frequency with which she is referred to as “Atheist Eugenie Scott” by creationists.”😃
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenie_Scott

Kenneth Miller is a Roman Catholic though. Here’s a video with a lecture from him
on Intelligent Design:
youtube.com/watch?v=Ohd5uqzlwsU&feature=related
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If you caught her point though - they are kind of annoyed that only a small percentage believe in evolution as the NCSE sees it. Now look at the strategic agenda change. Let us present evolution in a way that theists can accept it.

Bottom line - they have changed their strategy in response to the ID movement to make it more palatable. :hmmm:
 
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