Can science prove the world is over 4 billion yrs. old?

  • Thread starter Thread starter valentino
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
buffalo said:
Agreed - theologians do a lot of speculating. Authoritative teaching in the Catholic Church stops at the Bishops. So theologians have no teaching authority.
Click to expand...
I guess it’s always possible that Genesis originally started with an extra verse, now lost to us:

Warning - this book is so convoluted, opaque and downright complicated that neither the author nor any of her original audience have a clue what it’s on about, we’ll all just have to hope some folk in the far off future can crack it’s true meaning.

answersingenesis.org

After Eden

In the beginning, life on earth was perfect—just the way God created it. That all changed when Adam and Eve chose to disobey God’s one command.
answersingenesis.org answersingenesis.org

(from answersingenesis.org/aftereden/view.aspx?id=12)
 
Love the cartoon. We also as Catholic Chistians know that it does not take an Ecumencal Council ( that is worldwide not the uusal Protestant-Catholic use of ecumenical) or infallible decision by the pope to decide some teachings. On the Bible, it took a long time for scholars, then Pius X11, and a special Biblical Commision document to explain how to read and understad that biblical stories which are true for religious-theological content but not science. This process started in the 1850s when clay tablets were found in Babylon (Iraq) 20 K of them which had stories almost exactly like the Bible stories of creation of man, the Flood and two brothers fighting- all written hundreds of years before the Bible but of course the Jewish People came from there “Ur of the Chaldees” home area for Abraham who was a “wandering Aramean”~ Aramaic is the language and Chaldean is the name of the Rite of the Catholic Church there today.
All these are tanslated in Ancient Near Eastern Texts by Pritchard. .
 
inocente said:
I guess it’s always possible that Genesis originally started with an extra verse, now lost to us:

Warning - this book is so convoluted, opaque and downright complicated that neither the author nor any of her original audience have a clue what it’s on about, we’ll all just have to hope some folk in the far off future can crack it’s true meaning.

After Eden | Answers in Genesis

(from answersingenesis.org/aftereden/view.aspx?id=12)
Click to expand...
Or it’s is so simple and direct even a cavemen can get it. 😃
 
razredge said:
Please don’t feign ignorance, i’m sure you’re all too familiar with the Genesis creation account and know exactly what I’m talking about.
But actually there’s no need, from your recent posts it’s clear that when faced with contradictions between science/history and the Biblical account, you will reject the ‘human reasoning of observations’.

Hence your position is essentially unfalsifiable (and therefore intellectually dishonest)

More stalling, Buffalo knows perfectly well that theologians include bishops and other members of the Church who have developed its theology.
Click to expand...
No ignorance here - I just want you to deliver the verse and Chapter that you refer to to get the starting point. Pretty simple request. Are There Contradictions in Genesis 1 and 2?

I am putting a strict test to the human reasoning aspect. Most would have no problem with that since it is vulnerable. Human observation does not always tell the whole story, which you full well know. To deny it would be intellectually dishonest.

I repeat - teaching authority ends with bishops. Theological musings are not doctrine or dogma until they have merit and pronounced so by the Magisterium.
 
buffalo said:
I repeat - teaching authority ends with bishops. Theological musings are not doctrine or dogma until they have merit and pronounced so by the Magisterium.
Click to expand...
What about when a bishop is ignorant of science? Are his musings still magisterial?
 
BUFFALO; What book by which female author do you refer please/ Thanks Francis/Holy Pooh Fan
 
StAnastasia said:
Robert Vasa muses that the world is 6,000 years old! But he is a neophyte at science.
Click to expand...
Bishop Vasa wrote the forward to this book - It does a very good job in showing what the Church has always taught and understood.

The Doctrines of Genesis 1-11: A Compendium and Defense of Traditional Catholic Theology on Origins

**Product Description

** Today the Catholic Church has well-developed theologies of redemption and sanctification but no well-developed theology of creation. That is because so many of her influential thinkers have abandoned the sound creation theology of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church and have embraced instead the false principles of evolutionism. The purpose of this book is to help restore traditional Catholic theology on origins to its rightful place in the belief of Catholics. The traditional teaching of the Church on Creation, the Fall, and the Great Flood and its aftermath is clearly presented in the form of sixteen doctrines abstracted from the text of Genesis 1-11. The doctrines are defended on theological, philosophical and scientific grounds from assaults made on them from the sectors of biblical criticism and scientism. The author attempts to present a story of origins that evokes true and vivid images of the creation of the world and the primal history of the human species. Accurate, thorough and readable answers are given to many questions about origins that perplex the modern Catholic. The exposition is kept as non-technical as possible so that the book will be accessible to everyone. Not everyone will be able to understand everything that is presented, but every reader will find enough to set his thinking straight and to nourish his Catholic faith. Foreword by Most. Rev. Robert Francis Vasa, Bishop of Baker
Code: 
    **About the Author**

  **Fr. Victor Warkulwiz** has a Ph.D. in physics from Temple  University, an M. Div. from Mt. St. Mary’s Seminary, and an M.A. in  theology from Holy Apostles Seminary. He has taught courses in  literature, mathematics, and physics at Holy Apostles Seminary and  courses in philosophy and religion at the Franciscan Friars of Mary  Immaculate scholasticate. He is a member of the Missionary Priests of  the Blessed Sacrament and National Director of the Apostolate for  Perpetual Adoration in the United States.
 
buffalo said:
Bishop Vasa wrote the forward to this book - It does a very good job in showing what the Church has always taught and understood.
Click to expand...
Buffalo, Victor Warkulwiz’ book is complete and utter “young earth creationist” nonsense. I shared it with the scientists on our staff – including biologists, geneticists, geologists, chemists, and physical anthropologists – and they just laughed all the way through the lunch hour. It is embarrassing that a Catholic bishop as untutored in science as is Robert Vasa would endorse this book as even remotely credible. This just make the Catholic Church look more stupid to outsiders who are already hostile to our Catholic faith. That’s publicity we need like we need a hole in the head!
 
StAnastasia said:
Buffalo, Victor Warkulwiz’ book is complete and utter “young earth creationist” nonsense. I shared it with the scientists on our staff – including biologists, geneticists, geologists, chemists, and physical anthropologists – and they just laughed all the way through the lunch hour. It is embarrassing that a Catholic bishop as untutored in science as is Robert Vasa would endorse this book as even remotely credible. This just make the Catholic Church look more stupid to outsiders who are already hostile to our Catholic faith. That’s publicity we need like we need a hole in the head!
Click to expand...
You know full well the people you hang with would mock it. Now you believe that this mocking should be used to back your position. 😦 Please furnish the names of those biologists, geneticists, geologists, chemists, and physical anthropologists.

Read the forward again - notice - “The traditional teaching of the Church on Creation, the Fall, and the Great Flood and its aftermath is clearly presented in the form of sixteen doctrines abstracted from the text of Genesis 1-11. The doctrines are defended on theological, philosophical and scientific grounds from assaults made on them from the sectors of biblical criticism and scientism.”

Is the Bishop untutored on theological and philosophical grounds?
 
buffalo said:
You know full well the people you hang with would mock it. Now you believe that this mocking should be used to back your position. 😦 Please furnish the names of those biologists, geneticists, geologists, chemists, and physical anthropologists.

Is the Bishop untutored on theological and philosophical grounds?
Click to expand...
Victor Warkulwiz and Robert Vasa are flat-out wrong about what they say on virtually everything scientific topic in this book. As for philosophy and theology, they are employing models that have not been cogent since the nineteenth century. They are of course free to employ them, but their rhetoric will not be persuasive to anyone – Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or secular – who has studied science since 1850 or theology in the last thirty years.
 
StAnastasia said:
Victor Warkulwiz and Robert Vasa are flat-out wrong about what they say on virtually everything scientific topic in this book. As for philosophy and theology, they are employing models that have not been cogent since the nineteenth century. They are of course free to employ them, but their rhetoric will not be persuasive to anyone – Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or secular – who has studied science since 1850 or theology in the last thirty years.
Click to expand...
The book clearly shows the constant theological and philosophical teaching of the Church right up to today. I need you to provide a Magisterial document that states these are now false.

Did you read the book? If so, please list specifics where the science is flat-out wrong.
 
buffalo said:
The book clearly shows the constant theological and philosophical teaching of the Church right up to today. I need you to provide a Magisterial document that states these are now false.

Did you read the book? If so, please list specifics where the science is flat-out wrong.
Click to expand...
Six-day creation, speed of light, vapor canopy, Noah’s global flood, etc., etc. etc. It’s Protestant Young Earth Creationism warmed over for a Catholic audience.
 
StAnastasia said:
Scientific errors on pages 1 - 441. Some page have more errors than others.
Click to expand...
If you read the book you would know some pages contain no science at all. What you are doing is fraudulent and misleading.

Again, put up or shut up - what specific pages have errors? Quote the so called error for further discussion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top