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FiberZilla
Guest
If one leaves Roman Catholicism for evangelical christianity because she comes to believe truly in her heart through much prayer and study that Martin Luther was right, is she going to Hell?
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Brendan
Guest
All things are possible with God, certainly, but it would be MUCH more difficult for this person.
The Sacramental Graces provided by the Church are the easiest path to Salvation, hence why Christ instituted them in the first place.
Secondly, it shows that she is able to be decieved, either by a misguided sense of her own importance ( she has set her self up as being her own private Pope, instead of practicing the humilty desired by Christ). Or it could be the Evil One at work.
Either way, it makes her road substantially more difficult.
The Sacramental Graces provided by the Church are the easiest path to Salvation, hence why Christ instituted them in the first place.
Secondly, it shows that she is able to be decieved, either by a misguided sense of her own importance ( she has set her self up as being her own private Pope, instead of practicing the humilty desired by Christ). Or it could be the Evil One at work.
Either way, it makes her road substantially more difficult.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
One can come to believe all sorts of untrue things. The fact that one is absolutely convinced and absolutely, totally sincere does not make the inherent falsehood of the mistaken belief ‘true’. God is merciful as well as just. But I agree – it is one thing for one who has never ‘had’ the truth to find a partial truth in non-Catholic Christianity. It is quite another for somebody who has the fullness to reject that fullness for a lesser truth.
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prettylarge
Guest
Questions like this make me happy I don’t go to church anymore. I feel like everyone on this board is missing the point. Be a good person…treat others the way you want to be treated. Everything else is just details in my opinion.
Do you think the devil led her to Martin Luther? I don’t know. I think questions like this are silly. Did this cause her to treat others in a worse way?..if not, it is a non issue. Even if she stopped believing in God altogether, if it didn’t make her a worse person, it is a non issue. I realize that some of you believe that Catholicism is the only way to salvation, but what if you are wrong? What if its hinduism or buddhism or islam that is the right way to salvation? Looks like we are going to hell then I guess. I think it is arrogant to think that Catholicism is a better way to salvation than any other faith that promotes similar morals (basically every other major religion).
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
And just who exactly makes the determination of what is a ‘good person?’
It is not arrogant to profess the truth. It is rather arrogant to decide that Catholicism isn’t the truth for you and then to go on further and do exactly what you condemn in us. For if you’re claiming Catholicism isn’t the truth, you’re obviously claiming that either something else is (arrogant of you if arrogant for us), or you’re claiming that nothing is. . .and how would you know of any kinds of ‘truth’ if there were nothing absolute to base it on?
So either neither of us is arrogant in professing truth (you think you know it, I know I know it). . .or both are. But since each of us professes something opposite. . .one of us **is **professing the truth.
It is not arrogant to profess the truth. It is rather arrogant to decide that Catholicism isn’t the truth for you and then to go on further and do exactly what you condemn in us. For if you’re claiming Catholicism isn’t the truth, you’re obviously claiming that either something else is (arrogant of you if arrogant for us), or you’re claiming that nothing is. . .and how would you know of any kinds of ‘truth’ if there were nothing absolute to base it on?
So either neither of us is arrogant in professing truth (you think you know it, I know I know it). . .or both are. But since each of us professes something opposite. . .one of us **is **professing the truth.
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prettylarge
Guest
We aren’t professing opposites and both of us could be wrong. Treat others the way you want to be treated…that is what Jesus said and that is what a good person does.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Jesus said a lot but I’m not aware that He said “just be a good person, that’s all you need.” Why would you try to limit Him?
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bpbasilphx
Guest
What does God’s word say in 2 Thess 2?
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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thistle
Guest
Its worse for a Catholic because by leaving they have rejected the Church that Christ established and entrusted the Deposit if faith to. By the act of leaving they are in a state of mortal sin and if they die unrepentent then they condemn themselves to Hell.
By the way whatever she thinks, Martin Luther was the worst thing that happened to Christianity and if she leaves the Catholic Church to believe in Luther you can be sure that did not come from God.
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Shlomey
Guest
She won’t if she repents.
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kage_ar
Guest
What does Scripture say about those who knew the truth and walked away from it - I’d be praying for your friend’s immortal soul every day. The devil has led her out of the Church.
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alongexpected
Guest
“The Evil One?” Lol. It must be great to have a monopoly on the truth. and to know exactly what’s going to happen at the end of time.
Did you ever think that people of other faiths are saying the same thing about you? That you have been “deceived”, or are “misguided”? Of course not. Because you were born into the one, true religion that is 100% correct while others are not.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Well, either one religion is 100% correct, or none is.
If no religion is 100% correct, then what? You have a bunch of relativistic indifferentists running around saying that while they’re ‘content’ with the majority of their beliefs, and ignore the parts of their faith creeds that they don’t like, they wouldn’t DREAM of ‘imposing’ their faith onto others by claiming it is any better than theirs.
Why bother to believe something if ‘something else’ is just as good?
And if you believe your religion is true, are you just expected to ‘hush yo’mouf’ because you might offend somebody who doesn’t agree with you? That doesn’t sound like my free exercise of religion at all. . .
If no religion is 100% correct, then what? You have a bunch of relativistic indifferentists running around saying that while they’re ‘content’ with the majority of their beliefs, and ignore the parts of their faith creeds that they don’t like, they wouldn’t DREAM of ‘imposing’ their faith onto others by claiming it is any better than theirs.
Why bother to believe something if ‘something else’ is just as good?
And if you believe your religion is true, are you just expected to ‘hush yo’mouf’ because you might offend somebody who doesn’t agree with you? That doesn’t sound like my free exercise of religion at all. . .
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Priscilla_Ann
Guest
So, if one leaves the Catholic Church because they find Catholic teaching to be in error, then you believe that the devil has led them out of the church? I don’t think so, dear! I know many people who have left the Catholic Church for other Christian Churches and live lives devoted to the Lord. The Catholic Church does not have a monopoly on God.
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Shlomey
Guest
But Catholicism is the Church of God. And if you claim to be a Christian, you’d know that rebellion against the Church = rebellion against God.
Read the epistle of Jude.
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kage_ar
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Monica4316
Guest
It would be harder for this person to attain salvation because they wouldn’t have the graces that come through the Sacraments.
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Priscilla_Ann
Guest
Scripture tells us that **we are saved by grace through faith **(Ephesians 2:8-9); there is no mention of “graces that come through the Sacraments.” In fact, I don’t find “graces” in scripture at all; it is simply grace, which means “God’s unmerited favor”.
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Monica4316
Guest
we’re not saved by faith alone. We’re saved by grace alone but not faith alone… the only place in the BIble that mentions “faith alone” is James 2, where it says we’re not saved that way.
we’re saved by God’s grace…
Jesus said, if we eat His Body and drink His Blood, we will have life in us.
He also said, we’re born again by **water **and the Spirit. In the Sacrament of Baptism, the Holy Spirit gives us new life and water is part of the Sacrament.
Protestantism ignores these verses
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thistle
Guest
The Catholic Church was the only Church established by Christ. It was the only Church he gave authority to. It was the only Church he entrusted the Deposit of faith to. In fact the Catholic Church is the only Church. Non-Catholic Christian Churches are not actually churches ( no matter what they call themselves). They are communities, denominations, cults etc.
It is a contradiction to say someone has left the Catholic Church to live lives devoted to the Lord. By leaving they have rejected his only Church and his teachings and so have NOT devoted their lives to him.
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