Can somebody explain "Rapture" to me

[anon]

Sorry, I am a newbie here. I keep hearing Christians talk about this term “Rapture” and am confused. Is it like in the movies when out of nowhere Christians are teleported into heaven? Is that what Catholics believe and are waiting patiently for? Thanks!

 

[1ke]

Sorry, I am a newbie here. I keep hearing Christians talk about this term “Rapture” and am confused. Is it like in the movies when out of nowhere Christians are teleported into heaven?

The “Rapture” is a protestant invention of the 19th century. It is not a part of Catholic doctrine and has no basis in Scripture or Tradition. It is based on a misinterpretation of several scripture passages. Yes, it is the idea that “real Christians” will be “raptured” or “caught up” in the clouds with Jesus while others will be “left behind” during the “Tribulation”. None of this is sound theology.

I suggest the book The Rapture Trap by Paul Thigpen if you are interested in learning more.

Is that what Catholics believe and are waiting patiently for? Thanks!

No, Catholics are awating the Second Coming of Christ at the end if time.

 

[deb1]

Sorry, I am a newbie here. I keep hearing Christians talk about this term “Rapture” and am confused. Is it like in the movies when out of nowhere Christians are teleported into heaven? Is that what Catholics believe and are waiting patiently for? Thanks!

I used to be taught that Christians will be taken away before the Antichrist because God will not allow Christians to suffer.

This always seemed odd to me.

In the past, Christians suffered martyrdom for their faith and God did not return and, even today, Christians in non Western countries are persecuted for their beliefs. I used to wonder why God only cared if European and American Christians underwent persecution.

I think that this belief comes from the modern Protestant(No, not all Protestants think this way) view that all suffering is bad and therefore no good can come from it.

 

[mozart-250]

The word rapture, while not found in the Bible, is based on the following Scripture:

1 Thess: 4:15-17

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep

For the Lord Himself will descent from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.

There is a popChristianity version of these events as personified by the “Left Behind Series” and “The Late Great Planet Earth” which despite their popularity seems sketchy (for a number of reasons). That is a separate issue, however,

 

[JoeyWarren]

1 Thess. 4:16-17 - Paul writes that “we will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” Many Protestants call this experience the “rapture” (even though the word “rapture” is not found in the Bible, although is derived from the Latin vulgate of this verse – “rapiemur”). John 14:3; 1 Cor. 15:52 - these are other passages that Protestants use to support the rapture experience. The question Protestantism has raised is “when will the rapture occur?” They have developed three theories – (1) post-tribulation; (2) pre-tribulation; and, (3) mid-tribulation. We address these theories later on. But first, here is some more background.

Rev. 20:2-3; 7-8 – John sees the vision of an angel who seizes satan and binds him for a period of a thousand years. Protestants generally call this period of a thousand years the “millennium.” The “millennium” is a harbinger of the end of the world, and the theories of when the “rapture” will occur center around this period of time. We should also note that the “thousand years” language is part of apocalyptic literature and should not be interpreted literally. For example, in Psalm 50:10, we see the cattle on a “thousand hills.” The word “thousand” here obviously means a lot of hills. In Dan. 7:10, a “thousand thousands” served him. Again, “thousand” means a lot. In 2 Peter 3:8, with God one day is a “thousand” years and a “thousand” years is one day. “Thousand” is symbolic for a long time. It is not to be taken literally.

There are three ways that Protestants interpret the meaning of the thousand year “millennium” (and the interpretation leads to answering when they think the rapture will occur).

continued

 

[JoeyWarren]

(1) Post-millennialism – this view interprets the “thousand years” as a very long time. This view also holds that God’s kingdom is being advanced in the world by His grace and the world will eventually be Christianized. Then Christ will return at the close of this period during a time of righteousness and peace. The problem with this view is that the Scriptures do not teach that the world will be even relatively Christianized before the Second Coming. For example, in Matt. 13:24-30;36-43, Jesus says the wicked and the righteous will co-exist until the end of the world, when they will be judged, and either inherit eternal life, or be thrown into eternal fire.

(2) Pre-millenialism (also called “millenarianism”) – like post-millennialists, this view also interprets the “thousand years” as a golden age on earth when the world will be Christianized. But they believe that this period will occur after Christ’s second coming, during which time Christ will reign physically on earth. They believe the Final Judgment occurs when the millennium is over. But Scripture does not teach that there is a thousand year span between the Second Coming and Final Judgment. Instead, Jesus said that when He comes a second time in glory, He will immediately repay every man for what he has done. Matt. 16:27. When Jesus comes, He will separate the sheep from the goats and render judgment. Matt. 25:31-46. There is nothing about any period of time between His coming and final judgment.

(3) Amillennialism – this view also interprets the “thousand years” symbolically, but, ulike the pre and post views, not as a golden age on earth. This view believes the millennium is the period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on earth through His Church. This is because the saints who reign with Christ and to whom judgment has been committed are said to be on their thrones in heaven. Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4; 11:16. During this time, satan is bound and cannot hinder the spread of the gospel. Rev. 20:3. This is why, they explain, Jesus teaches the necessity of binding the “strong man” (satan) in order to plunder his house and rescue people from his grip. Matt. 12:29. This is also why, after the disciples preached the gospel and rejoiced that the demons were even subject to them, Jesus declared, “I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven.” Luke 10:18. Nevertheless, during this period, the world will not be entirely Christianized because satan, though bound, is still in some sense able to prowl around and attack souls. cf. 1 Peter 5:8. Of the three, this position is most consistent with Catholic teaching (the pre and post-millennium views have been rejected by the Church).

 

[JoeyWarren]

2 Thess. 2:1-4 – concerning the Second Coming of Christ, Scripture teaches (and most Protestants believe) that Christ’s coming will be preceded by a time of rebellion, lawlessness and persecution. Protestants often refer to this period as the “tribulation” (although the word “tribulation” cannot be found in the Scripture passages Protestants use to support the “rapture”). So the question is, when will the 1 Thess. 4:16-17 “rapture” occur, in light of the tribulation and Christ’s Second Coming? Here are the three theories previously mentioned:

(1) Post-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur right after the tribulation and immediately before the Second Coming of Christ. This view can be consistent with Scripture and Catholic teaching to the extent it holds that the rapture and Christ’s Second Coming occur together, after the tribulation and the Church Militant on earth. See, for example, Matt. 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thess. 1:1-12.

(2) Pre-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur before the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture before the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. In Heb. 9:28, it is clear that Christ will appear a second and final time, when he comes in glory to save us. This view also is inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12 where the rapture and the Second Coming occur together.

(3) Mid-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur during the middle of the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it also requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture during the middle of the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. As seen in Heb. 9:28, Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. The view is also inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark. 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12.

2 Peter 3:8-15 – instead of worrying about when the rapture will occur, Christians should follow Peter’s instruction to repent of their sins, live lives of holiness and godliness, be zealous and at peace, and wait for the Lord’s coming with forbearance and joy!

 

[anon]

Thanks for the replies. Now if I am understanding correctly, the “Rapture” is a physical event in which Christians will be instantly teleported into heaven when Jesus Christ comes the second time. The bad people get “left behind”, so to speak and suffer? From reading the posts, it seems like this is not a universally accepted Christian doctrine (e.g., some Catholics don’t accept it). Is this just a Protestant view of Christianity, or do some Catholics accept it as well? Thanks for the replies

 

[JoeyWarren]

the “Rapture” is a physical event in which Christians will be instantly teleported into heaven when Jesus Christ comes the second time. The bad people get “left behind”, so to speak and suffer?

That is the Protestant View that existed since the 1830s.

 

[palmas85]

Thanks for the replies. Now if I am understanding correctly, the “Rapture” is a physical event in which Christians will be instantly teleported into heaven when Jesus Christ comes the second time. The bad people get “left behind”, so to speak and suffer? From reading the posts, it seems like this is not a universally accepted Christian doctrine (e.g., some Catholics don’t accept it). Is this just a Protestant view of Christianity, or do some Catholics accept it as well? Thanks for the replies

This doctrine is not accepted at all by the majority of Christians, only by a small Protestant fundamentalist minority, although their numbers are growing… By the way it is not only the bad people who will be left behind, it is **everyone **who is not an adherant of that particular belief. So most, Catholics would be left behind, most of the the Orthodox, in fact all Christians except those who have gone through what is termed Baptism of the Holy Spirit and been saved, the Jews, the Muslims, the Hindus, the Buddists everybody.

Those left behind will suffer through the tribulation times and the ascent of the Anti Christ, while those saved will sit on the sidelines and watch I guess. .

 

[exoflare]

I used to be taught that Christians will be taken away before the Antichrist because God will not allow Christians to suffer.

This always seemed odd to me.

Sounds a lot like Mad Mo’s take on the crucifixion.

Sorry, I’ll stop getting off-topic now.

 

[flameburns623]

This doctrine is not accepted at all by the majority of Christians, only by a small Protestant fundamentalist minority, although their numbers are growing… By the way it is not only the bad people who will be left behind, it is **everyone **who is not an adherent of that particular belief. So most, Catholics would be left behind, most of the the Orthodox, in fact all Christians except those who have gone through what is termed Baptism of the Holy Spirit and been saved, the Jews, the Muslims, the Hindus, the Buddhists, everybody.

Those left behind will suffer through the tribulation times and the ascent of the Anti Christ, while those saved will sit on the sidelines and watch I guess. .

Sorry but this is not quite right. Adherents of the rapture are numbered among Evangelicals and even mainstream Protestants, not just among the ‘fundamentalists’, who are a subset of Evangelicals and of Pentecostals. Moreover, very few adherents of the rapture doctrine would agree that only those who have received the ‘baptism of the Holy Spirit’ will be raptured: all saved persons will be raptured. To start with, all saved people receive the Holy Ghost when they receive Christ: the ‘in-filling’ of the Holy Ghost is a secondary blessing taught by only a minority of Pentecostals and Charismatic Protestants and Catholics. Not all who accept the Rapture teaching believe in the ‘in-filling’ of the Holy Ghost as a secondary blessing.

Moreover, there are and always will be both saved and unsaved persons even within actively-Christian churches and congregations. There are and will ever be people who have received the Gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ; and there are and ever will be members of churches and congregations who are trusting more in their own good works and merits than in the merits and finished work of Christ.

Most Evangelicals do NOT accept Roman Catholic notions of a ‘baptism by desire’ which might somehow grant salvation to some who are Buddhists, Muslims, or otherwise non-Christian. Evangelicals believe that one must receive Christ to be saved, and believe that all people receive the light of conscience and the light of Creation, by which they can be led to the Light of Christ. One who does not accepts the Light of Christ by becoming Christian can be assumed to have rejected to some degree the light of conscience and/or the light of Creation.

In any case, adherents of the Rapture doctrine would NOT say that Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, or other Christians automatically have not received the Light of Christ (a synonym for ‘receiving the Gospel’ or for ‘receiving Christ’)–though there may be proportionally fewer who have received Him in those Churches because the EO and RCC do such a poor job of teaching the Gospel.

Palmas85 is correct that the contemporary Rapture teaching is a minority view, and a relatively recent one by the way. I do not subscribe to it myself. Roman Catholics do not believe in the popular Evangelical version of the Rapture. (Ultimately, all Christians believe in a ‘rapture’ at some point in Salvific history: the question is one of timing). As it is currently popularized, the Rapture teaching centers around the idea that God will remove His people from this Earth just prior to a time of tribulation and trouble, during which Satan will have free reign on the planet and will attempt to counterfeit Jesus Christ by raising up an Antichrist. The most notable event of occur during the time of tribulation will be the mass conversion of the Jewish people, and the attempt of Antichrist to annihilate them at the Battle of Armageddon. At the end of that time of tribulation (usually though not necessarily always believed to last 7 years) Christ will return with His Saints, rescue the Jewish people, destroy all of the wicked, and set up a Millennial Kingdom.

Most Christians do not believe that God will remove Christians from the Earth until the actual, visible Second Coming of Christ at the end of the World. There are various views about whether there will be a literal Antichrist, a literal time of tribulation, and a literal Millennium. It is generally agreed that during the time just before the return of Christ, Scripture teaches that Jewish people will convert to faith in Christ in unprecedented numbers. In general, eschatology–the study of ‘last things’, such as death and the End of the World–is an area of theology left wide open for much speculation. What one MUST believe as a Christian is that there is going to be a literal, visible return of Christ, a literal bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ, and a real and literal world-to-come.

 

[exoflare]

Most Evangelicals do NOT accept Roman Catholic notions of a ‘baptism by desire’ which might somehow grant salvation to some who are Buddhists, Muslims, or otherwise non-Christian.

I feel sorry for everyone who existed before Jesus, then.

 

[flameburns623]

I feel sorry for everyone who existed before Jesus, then.

No one has ever been born ‘before’ Jesus: Jesus is eternal. Before His Incarnation, one accepted Him by receiving what He revealed of Himself either through Judaism, or before that, as Christ revealed Himself to individuals from Adam to Moses. This is a distraction from the point of the thread, BTW.

 

[exoflare]

No one has ever been born ‘before’ Jesus: Jesus is eternal. Before His Incarnation, one accepted Him by receiving what He revealed of Himself either through Judaism, or before that, as Christ revealed Himself to individuals from Adam to Moses. This is a distraction from the point of the thread, BTW.

It’s pretty obvious that by “before Jesus” I am referring to the time before the incarnation; I really doubt that anyone was genuinely confused on that little technicality you brought up.

Anyway, your admission that God really does reveal Himself in an incomplete way to certain people is already enough to prove my point.

 

[palmas85]

Sorry but this is not quite right. Adherents of the rapture are numbered among Evangelicals and even mainstream Protestants, not just among the ‘fundamentalists’, who are a subset of Evangelicals and of Pentecostals. Moreover, very few adherents of the rapture doctrine would agree that only those who have received the ‘baptism of the Holy Spirit’ will be raptured: all saved persons will be raptured. To start with, all saved people receive the Holy Ghost when they receive Christ: the ‘in-filling’ of the Holy Ghost is a secondary blessing taught by only a minority of Pentecostals and Charismatic Protestants and Catholics. Not all who accept the Rapture teaching believe in the ‘in-filling’ of the Holy Ghost as a secondary blessing.

Moreover, there are and always will be both saved and unsaved persons even within actively-Christian churches and congregations. There are and will ever be people who have received the Gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ; and there are and ever will be members of churches and congregations who are trusting more in their own good works and merits than in the merits and finished work of Christ.

Most Evangelicals do NOT accept Roman Catholic notions of a ‘baptism by desire’ which might somehow grant salvation to some who are Buddhists, Muslims, or otherwise non-Christian. Evangelicals believe that one must receive Christ to be saved, and believe that all people receive the light of conscience and the light of Creation, by which they can be led to the Light of Christ. One who does not accepts the Light of Christ by becoming Christian can be assumed to have rejected to some degree the light of conscience and/or the light of Creation.

In any case, adherents of the Rapture doctrine would NOT say that Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, or other Christians automatically have not received the Light of Christ (a synonym for ‘receiving the Gospel’ or for ‘receiving Christ’)–though there may be proportionally fewer who have received Him in those Churches because the EO and RCC do such a poor job of teaching the Gospel.

Palmas85 is correct that the contemporary Rapture teaching is a minority view, and a relatively recent one by the way. I do not subscribe to it myself. Roman Catholics do not believe in the popular Evangelical version of the Rapture. (Ultimately, all Christians believe in a ‘rapture’ at some point in Salvific history: the question is one of timing). As it is currently popularized, the Rapture teaching centers around the idea that God will remove His people from this Earth just prior to a time of tribulation and trouble, during which Satan will have free reign on the planet and will attempt to counterfeit Jesus Christ by raising up an Antichrist. The most notable event of occur during the time of tribulation will be the mass conversion of the Jewish people, and the attempt of Antichrist to annihilate them at the Battle of Armageddon. At the end of that time of tribulation (usually though not necessarily always believed to last 7 years) Christ will return with His Saints, rescue the Jewish people, destroy all of the wicked, and set up a Millennial Kingdom.

Most Christians do not believe that God will remove Christians from the Earth until the actual, visible Second Coming of Christ at the end of the World. There are various views about whether there will be a literal Antichrist, a literal time of tribulation, and a literal Millennium. It is generally agreed that during the time just before the return of Christ, Scripture teaches that Jewish people will convert to faith in Christ in unprecedented numbers. In general, eschatology–the study of ‘last things’, such as death and the End of the World–is an area of theology left wide open for much speculation. What one MUST believe as a Christian is that there is going to be a literal, visible return of Christ, a literal bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ, and a real and literal world-to-come.

You sure on this one? My brother in law, a fundamentalist preacher is the one who clued me in on this. So I know that at least in his church that is the belief. Does it also vary from church to church as do most other Protestant doctrines?

 

[deb1]

Evangelicals believe that one must receive Christ to be saved, and believe that all people receive the light of conscience and the light of Creation, by which they can be led to the Light of Christ. One who does not accepts the Light of Christ by becoming Christian can be assumed to have rejected to some degree the light of conscience and/or the light of Creation.

In any case, adherents of the Rapture doctrine would NOT say that Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, or other Christians automatically have not received the Light of Christ (a synonym for ‘receiving the Gospel’ or for ‘receiving Christ’)–though there may be proportionally fewer who have received Him in those Churches because the EO and RCC do such a poor job of teaching the Gospel.

This is accidentally insulting to both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. You are saying that less Eastern Orthodox and Catholics are 'true Christians"?

 

[deb1]

Perhaps I am incorrect in this, but I thought that the Catholic understanding of rapture was that when Jesus returns we will be caught up as he is coming down to earth and that this will happen after the tribulation.

Catholics, for some reason, don’t seem to worry as much about the end of the world as some Protestant groups.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Perhaps I am incorrect in this, but I thought that the Catholic understanding of rapture was that when Jesus returns we will be caught up as he is coming down to earth and that this will happen after the tribulation.

Catholics don’t call it the Rapture. We just call it the Second Coming.

Catholics, for some reason, don’t seem to worry as much about the end of the world as some Protestant groups

It’s not something we dwell and obsess on. Those Protestants that believe in the Rapture are for the most part a Pre-Trib. They are hoping it will occur Yesterday.

 

[flameburns623]

You sure on this one? My brother in law, a fundamentalist preacher is the one who clued me in on this. So I know that at least in his church that is the belief. Does it also vary from church to church as do most other Protestant doctrines?

Out of curiosity, does your brother-in-law call himself a ‘fundamentalist’? Some fundamentalists DO wear that label proudly, but most shy away from it. Fundamentalism tends to be identified by it’s overweening sectarianism–they tend to believe that their tiny little denomination has an ‘inside edge’ on going to Heaven. OTHER Christians MIGHT go, but only on Divine sufferance.

If in fact your brother-in-law is a fundamentalist–whether he personally accepts the title or not–he may hold to the notion that Christians who are not ‘Spirit-filled’ will not be raptured. That is NOT the way most adherents to the pre-tribulational Rapture see things. You have to understand that the pre-trib rapture movement is very broadly-based, especially among English-speaking Western Evangelical Protestants. (It is less commanding among Christians in lesser-developed countries, largely because Christians in such areas are already prone to suffer many sorts of trials and tribulations). That aside, even though some sectarian Protestants may hijack the theory to militate for some particular sectarian issue they hold dear, most proponents of the pre-trib Rapture do NOT limit the Rapture in the way you described in your OP.

Deb1:

This is accidentally insulting to both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. You are saying that less Eastern Orthodox and Catholics are 'true Christians"?

Catholics and Eastern Orthodox may outnumber Protestants in Heaven numerically, but as a proportion of the nominal membership which ultimately end up saved–it is my opinion that fewer EO’s and RC’s will be saved. Only God knows who His people are and are not, but yes: I think the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches are rusty, dull instruments so far as the proclamation of the Gospel of grace is concerned; and as a result I fear that far more EO’s and RC’s are caught up in religiosity without ever actually forming a vital relationship with the Living God. I believe both denominations have the Gospel embedded in their theology, I believe that some members of the RC denomination and the EO denominations do come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ–but I think this is something which is almost ‘accidental’ for far too many RC’s and EO’s.

From what I can see of the Eastern Orthodox theology–and I have been cautioned in the past that I have not read the best available spiritual material of an EO orientation–Eastern Orthodoxy as it is generally taught and practiced is especially mired in Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism, with most EO believing and trusting in good works and church affiliation to get them into Heaven.

Many Roman Catholics certainly articulate the same sort of false hope, from which I deduce that too many have never heard the Gospel properly taught. Those who have not heard the Gospel properly preached are unlikely to receive that Gospel and hence are unlikely to receive the salvation that Gospel alone can provide. Incidentally, many Protestant congregations suffer from the same problem, even some Protestant congregations and denominations which are nominally Evangelical in orientation.