Can someone examine this writing?

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CatholicZ09 said:
So, I was on one of Westboro Baptist Church’s sites, and they were explaining in the following post below of how “God loves everyone” (John 3:16) is a lie. Can someone explain what they’re wrong about in the following:

godhatestheworld.com/common/html/john316.html

Thank you.
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CatholicZ09: that person is none other than what is known as a Calvinist, The presbyterians pretty much believe this way. They have what’s called the T-U-L-II-P. Total depravity; Unconditional election; Limited atonement; Irresistable grace; and Perseverance. This is all attained by the all sovereignty of God. This means as a sinner you cannot come to God by your own power. God chooses some and the rest he damns. He only died for the elect that he has chosen. No matter if you reject god eventually since you are chosen his grace will reel you in so there is no freewill choice on your part. Since you are elected and chosen you will persevere.
All this is grossly incorrect. Predestination is the other big factor for them. They believe god predestines some to be save and others to hell. They use Romans 8:29 but all it says iis that we arre predistined to be conformed to the image of his son. This passage is talking specically ti christians so this verse talks more about sanctification of the believer not the individual choice of the believer.there is no scripture that says we are predestined to go to hell.
Sovereignty and predestination are taken to the extreme. I’ll stop for now; I hope that was helpful. God bless! Jerry Kelso
 
Thanks. The only thing I don’t understand about it is they use the word “kosmos” to describe world, and they say it means the world of the elect. I heard that’s wrong, however.
 
kosmos can be interpreted as ‘orderly arrangement’. What is misleading about John 3:16 is that love has been ambiguously translated into meaning saved.
 
jerry_kelso said:
. . . All this is grossly incorrect. . . . I’ll stop for now; . . . Jerry Kelso
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Thank you.

I find your statement grossly overgeneralizing and simply perpetuating stereotypes, devoid of any facts.
  1. I can site a Catholic source that supports TULIP.
  2. Predestination is not a registered trademark of the Calvinist Church
  3. Romans 8:29 is not an isolated verse twisted to shoe horn into any wacky theology. It harmonizes with the whole of Scripture.
 
jahsoza said:
  1. I can site a Catholic source that supports TULIP.
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Speaking of facts, what is this source? The Catholic Church does not hold to TULIP (on at least 4 points, and differs on the understanding of depravity)
 
CatholicZ09 said:
Thanks. The only thing I don’t understand about it is they use the word “kosmos” to describe world, and they say it means the world of the elect. I heard that’s wrong, however.
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Catholic Z09: Romans 8:29; All things work together for good to them who the Lord who are the called according to his purpose.
Romans 8:30: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to his image of his son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethern.
These are usually the mainstay of a calvinist for predestination.
Kosmos means worlld and many time worlds. They say this because the context is about the elect and about salvation. This is the correct context but, this passage does not have to do with the individual conformity of a person a person choosing to be saved cause God chooses some and others he damns of his own pleasure.
First and foremost; there is no person predestined to go to hell. The plan of salvation was predestined. We are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus. This deals basically with sanctification.
We are conformed in his image according to creation. We cannot be conformed to his image while we are sinners. We are conformed to his image in salvation; but this is used as in an automatic change. This passage is talking about the elect already in the state of election. Therefore conformed to the image of his son in this verse would be a process as a christian. This is why it is the process of sanctification and not the individual conformity of choice of the elect.
I pray that helps. God Bless! Jerry Kelso
 
Good job, jerry. As well, Luke 7:30 seems to show that we humans have some choice in the matter and are not condemned before conception by the Calvinist twist on our Lord:

Luke 7:30 RSV2CE (but the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected the purpose of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.)

If they were “pre-destined”, their rejection, a conscious decision, would not have been needed, right? So much of scripture is either ignored or twisted in order to support these aberrant views of our God and His covenants.
 
ChadS said:
I wonder if this is what jahsoza was referring to? It’s an article by Jimmy Akin that gives a Catholic spin on TULIP. romancatholicism.org/akin-tulip.htm

ChadS
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Wow. Yet to meet a Calvinist who would accept his characterization of Free Will, Total Depravity, Irresistible Grace, or Limited Atonement. Also parts of his “Catholic” understanding are repudiated by Trent (which he helpfully quotes but fails to address).🤷
 
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