Can someone explain these changes

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AnneTeresa

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I have recently returned to the catholic faith after a number of years and am surprised (rather stunned at first) by the changes I am seeing. One church I used to go to now has put in latin words in the mass, I see people bowing and kneeling at communication, people say extra prayers to Mary before Mass, and other things.After a period of shock, I am getting more used to it and I find some of the old practices (like praying the Rosary) very helpful. But it does feels like a time warp to my childhood church and faith, which wasn’t very positive. The other church I attend, my home parish, is much like it was when I left–still in English, the same songs I used to know, English prayers, etc. What is going on in the Catholic church? It seems like there is a split going on. I don’t want any part of that! That’s what I saw in so many Protestant churches. I just want to seek God and learn to love him more. I’ve also seen a lot of arguing here on the boards about some matters. Maybe I was in a fog before I left the church, but is this all new–all this change and the split? I do not intend to participate in any of it!
 
Our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI has requested that we make the changes you have noticed at the first parish. It may just be that your home parish is taking a bit more time to get things rolling as the Holy Father has asked. There are some who prefer things the way they have been for the last 40 years, and some who happily receive the indications of the Pope to resume some of the older practices. There is no “split.” Not to worry.
 
Jesus,our Lords peace be with You.
Changes has happend,but the faith is the same. I can’t say how You feel with the word “understand” because no one can feel exactly the same,but I do see Your point. But if we go the church,seeking for anything else then Jesus,we are not honest,and I don’t mean You,or anyone,just in general,so the changes made is for the best of us. The church is the place where we find God closer then in any other place. So I hope You will find theese,to You maybe,confusing,in the end be a blessing. I offer one Hail Mary for You so that You will continue to go to church and find Jesus,theese changes has been done for a good reason,if not,The Holy Father would not have made them.
 
Honestly, there is a split of sorts between those who are content with the mass as it is, and those who desire a return to the Latin mass. So, since both forms of mass are allowed, and some non-territorial parishes are now dedicated to the Latin mass, there is a division of preference in the laity - and clergy for that matter. (takes breath and waits…)
 
AnneTeresa said:
I have recently returned to the catholic faith after a number of years and am surprised (rather stunned at first) by the changes I am seeing. One church I used to go to now has put in latin words in the mass, I see people bowing and kneeling at communication, people say extra prayers to Mary before Mass, and other things.After a period of shock, I am getting more used to it and I find some of the old practices (like praying the Rosary) very helpful. But it does feels like a time warp to my childhood church and faith, which wasn’t very positive. The other church I attend, my home parish, is much like it was when I left–still in English, the same songs I used to know, English prayers, etc. What is going on in the Catholic church? It seems like there is a split going on. I don’t want any part of that! That’s what I saw in so many Protestant churches. I just want to seek God and learn to love him more. I’ve also seen a lot of arguing here on the boards about some matters. Maybe I was in a fog before I left the church, but is this all new–all this change and the split? I do not intend to participate in any of it!
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Sorry, I’m confused, what exactly are your questions/concerns? Thanks.
 
People want the transformation of their souls that the Eucharist gives to them. Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, is being reintroduced into Parishes, something you didn’t mention. I think that you would say that you can understand the need to pray before the Blessed Sacrament, and on reflection one can understand most of the changes being made to encourage what would seem to be pre-Vatican II. Most people here will tell you, as the Pope would, that There was a misinterpretation of Vatican II that is being corrected now, and, for the very fact that the misinterpretations was watering the Faith down. Still, the Church is in a new century, and, in a century beyond, the 21st. We are educated enough not to have a “knee jerk” response, and are also, are we not?.. used to changes in liturgy. I bow before the Blessed Sacrament, as requested of us, a few years ago, that is, as you noticed, is one change. And I managed to fit it in without attaching (too much) pride in the fact that I am following a new observance, as requested! There will be a few new changes coming soon, which, I hope will improve the Mass for us, IOW smooth it out; contribute rather than confuse. As you may garner, I agree with you, but there is an essence, the most important thing, our Faith, that must be protected. Your Pastor would be glad to talk with you about these things! Also, there are classes, sometimes in addition to the RCIA or itself that one might certainly wish to attend to, in order to strengthen your Faith! And answer any specific questions!
 
baltobetsy said:
Our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI has requested that we make the changes you have noticed at the first parish. It may just be that your home parish is taking a bit more time to get things rolling as the Holy Father has asked. There are some who prefer things the way they have been for the last 40 years, and some who happily receive the indications of the Pope to resume some of the older practices. There is no “split.” Not to worry.
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Umm… Well, I know that the Pope requests that anyone receiving directly from him does so kneeling and on the tongue, but has he requested everyone does so?
And ‘extra prayers to Mary before Mass’? Where does he request that?
 
ohioszo said:
People want the transformation of their souls that the Eucharist gives to them. Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, is being reintroduced into Parishes, something you didn’t mention. I think that you would say that you can understand the need to pray before the Blessed Sacrament, and on reflection one can understand most of the changes being made to encourage what would seem to be pre-Vatican II. Most people here will tell you, as the Pope would, that There was a misinterpretation of Vatican II that is being corrected now, and, for the very fact that the misinterpretations was watering the Faith down. Still, the Church is in a new century, and, in a century beyond, the 21st. We are educated enough not to have a “knee jerk” response, and are also, are we not?.. used to changes in liturgy. I bow before the Blessed Sacrament, as requested of us, a few years ago, that is, as you noticed, is one change. And I managed to fit it in without attaching (too much) pride in the fact that I am following a new observance, as requested! There will be a few new changes coming soon, which, I hope will improve the Mass for us, IOW smooth it out; contribute rather than confuse. As you may garner, I agree with you, but there is an essence, the most important thing, our Faith, that must be protected. Your Pastor would be glad to talk with you about these things! Also, there are classes, sometimes in addition to the RCIA or itself that one might certainly wish to attend to, in order to strengthen your Faith! And answer any specific questions!
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What do you mean by a century beyond the 21st? Thanks.
 
paperwight66 said:
Umm… Well, I know that the Pope requests that anyone receiving directly from him does so kneeling and on the tongue, but has he requested everyone does so?
And ‘extra prayers to Mary before Mass’? Where does he request that?
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No, of course the Pope has not requested such. Catholics should receive communion according to the posture authoritatively taught by the Church, which can be either kneeling or standing, on the tongue or in the hand.

There is no teaching about prayers to Mary before Mass. That’s a matter of local or personal devotion, not part of the official liturgy of the Church.
 
AnneTeresa,

I hope this doesn’t sound harsh.

You say you have been away from the Church for many years.

Your parish is a family, and during the years that you have been away, many things have happened in your parish family. You have missed all of these things by your own choice.

It’s just like your real family. When you leave your real family for college, job, military, or whatever, usually when you come back home for a visit, you will find changes. Sometimes it’s hard to see that Mom and Dad have converted your old bedroom to an office, or have changed all the furniture, or even have moved to a new house. We want our childhood to continue, but it can’t. Mom and Dad don’t stop growing and changing just because their children grow up. They move on and develop a life without children in their home.

The same thing has happened in your Church. Things didn’t stop when you left the Church.

The Holy Spirit has been working in the lives of many of the parishioners in your parish and convicting many of them to pray more and practice more traditional forms of reverence before and after Mass. The parishioners have grown up in their relationship to Jesus Christ and to the Church. They have matured spiritually. They worked through it all, all the changes and practices and new proclamations by the Pope. They all stuck it out, whether they liked it or not, and worked through it with their fellow parishioners.

There are no doubt many converts from Protestants who have joined your parish, and many of these (not all) bring with them their own spiritual habits from their Christian fellowships. Many of them also desire a highly traditional form of Christianity, as they have come out of fellowships that use no liturgy or follow no traditions at all. Converts are infectiously enthusiastic and have a way of getting other Catholics, including cradle Catholics, excited about ancient faith practices.

Many Catholic parishes have embarked upon a commitment to evangelization, and have added Bible studies and studies of apologetics and Church history to their roster of activities (along with the traditional card parties and other fellowships). This means that many of the parishioners are more knowledgeable about their Church and the Lord.

Your priests have come out of seminaries that are teaching more Latin and other traditional practices. Many priests that were part of the Vatican II changes, especially the very liberal practices, have retired, and they are being replaced by priests who have been in conservative seminaries. The priest scandal was and is horrific, but one good effect is that several seminaries have become very selective in chosing their seminarians, as well as stricter during the course of study of priests.

The Pope has made the call for a return to some of the traditional practices of the Church. By Advent of 2011, the New Translation of the OF of the Mass will be implemented in all parishes in the U.S., and there will be a slightly different, but more accurate liturgy.

But you missed all this, AnneTeresa, by your own choice.

You were not there when your parishioners struggled through all this, and worked through their feelings, often feelings of reluctance and uncertainty, about returning to some of the more traditional Catholic practices. You were not there during the discussion, debates, tears, doubts, anger, acceptance, and enthusiasm. You missed all the changes in your parish family. They didn’t occur overnight. It took years, and you missed it.

So IMO, it would be best for you to accept that by your choice, you missed out on many years of spiritual “growth” and the resultant changes in your parish and to submit with meekness and humility, realizing that all those Catholics who stayed with the parish have many years of staying close to Jesus that you don’t have because you left His Church of your own free will.

Now you’ve walked back in–that’s wonderful!–and things aren’t the way they were when you left. Well, isn’t that a good thing? After all, you LEFT when the Church was the way it was. So apparently your parish wasn’t meeting your needs back then. Why would you want the parish to be the way it was back when you walked away from it?

Just accept what has happened in your years of absence. It might be a good thing to grieve for all you have missed, and to determine in your heart that you will not ever walk away again, but instead, you will be there and stick it out in the years to come as your parish lives and grows and matures.
 
God works through his vicar the Pope, and the Church returns to the balance between the new and old, from the excesses. This balance probably will loose the left and the right, but will establish the principles set by the Vatican II council and the Magisterium.

The people’s Church, and the overemphasizing of the role of the community over the spirituality was mistake. Christ is among us when we get together, but with shall get together not by this world and through the values of this world, but with out eyes to the heaven and spirituality, which in many times is against this world.
 
AnneTeresa said:
I have recently returned to the catholic faith after a number of years and am surprised (rather stunned at first) by the changes I am seeing. One church I used to go to now has put in latin words in the mass, I see people bowing and kneeling at communication, people say extra prayers to Mary before Mass, and other things.After a period of shock, I am getting more used to it and I find some of the old practices (like praying the Rosary) very helpful. But it does feels like a time warp to my childhood church and faith, which wasn’t very positive. The other church I attend, my home parish, is much like it was when I left–still in English, the same songs I used to know, English prayers, etc. What is going on in the Catholic church? It seems like there is a split going on. I don’t want any part of that! That’s what I saw in so many Protestant churches. I just want to seek God and learn to love him more. I’ve also seen a lot of arguing here on the boards about some matters. Maybe I was in a fog before I left the church, but is this all new–all this change and the split? I do not intend to participate in any of it!
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Wonderful post! When I returned to the Church after a long absence I too was shocked and amazed. You see I left pre-VII and returned to what I could only describe as a Protestantized Church. Now that the Church has acknowledged the TLM is actually licit, I’ve returned to that Mass.
 
Thanks for the replies. Where can one find info on what the Pope has requested be changed? Where do you go to learn the Latin now that is said in some parts of the Mass? I’ve checked the church website and found nothing. I’m not even sure which parts they are saying in Latin because I don’t recognize enough of the words to tell. I’d like to participate but can’t because I don’t know the Latin.

Cat, I wasn’t criticizing the changes at all and am not sure why you took it that way. Perhaps it is how I stated things–I meant to say that I won’t be part of any arguing, not part of anything different. I am completely open to the new changes and have found some of the new things very helpful in drawing closer to God.
 
AnneTeresa said:
Thanks for the replies. Where can one find info on what the Pope has requested be changed? Where do you go to learn the Latin now that is said in some parts of the Mass? I’ve checked the church website and found nothing. I’m not even sure which parts they are saying in Latin because I don’t recognize enough of the words to tell. I’d like to participate but can’t because I don’t know the Latin.

Cat, I wasn’t criticizing the changes at all and am not sure why you took it that way. Perhaps it is how I stated things–I meant to say that I won’t be part of any arguing, not part of anything different. I am completely open to the new changes and have found some of the new things very helpful in drawing closer to God.
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Here are the parts of the Mass in Latin, along with the musical notation. This is the basic Latin (and Greek for the Kyrie) responses that everyone should know according to the Vatican II document “Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy”.

ceciliaschola.org/pdf/jubilateshort.pdf
 
Phemie,
Thanks! This is very helpful. So are all churches supposed to be doing this now or working towards it at least?
 
OK, just to let everyone know - the changes were not initiated initially by Pope Benedict XVI although he was on board as a Cardinal - they were initiated by Pope John Paul II. Basically many of the changes to the Mass started being researched when Pope JP II started traveling (he is one of the best linguists by far that we have had since VII) and realized that the different prayers that were being prayed were not actually saying the same things.

Catholic - actually means Universal - in a universal Church this is a problem. The problem occurred when Latin translations were made and then the translations were further translated into local Vernaculars.

So yes while changes are happening under Pope Benedict XVI - they were initiated under Pope John Paul II.

It may take some getting used to but remember part of the Grace of the Eucharist is being in Communion with the Angels, Saints, Mary and each other - won’t it be exciting to be praying the same prayers once again.
 
AnneTeresa said:
Thanks for the replies. Where can one find info on what the Pope has requested be changed? Where do you go to learn the Latin now that is said in some parts of the Mass? I’ve checked the church website and found nothing. I’m not even sure which parts they are saying in Latin because I don’t recognize enough of the words to tell. I’d like to participate but can’t because I don’t know the Latin.

Cat, I wasn’t criticizing the changes at all and am not sure why you took it that way. Perhaps it is how I stated things–I meant to say that I won’t be part of any arguing, not part of anything different. I am completely open to the new changes and have found some of the new things very helpful in drawing closer to God.
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Just to be clear, there is no requirement that any part of the Mass be said in Latin. It can be done 100% in English – or 100% in Spanish, Polish, Italian, Japanese, etc. Priests can also do multilingual Masses if they think it would be beneficial for the congregation. For example, at a parish in Texas or New Mexico they might do a Mass that partly in English and partly in Spanish.

That’s what’s happening in your church, except that the priest has decided to combine English with Latin. The English makes things understandable (you wouldn’t want the readings in Latin, for instance), while for parts of the Mass you already understand, using the Latin helps tie what your congregation is doing in that time and place to the universal Church throughout the world and the ages. The Pope has also recommended (but not required) using Latin for common parts of the Mass in cases of multilingual or multiethnic congregations, allowing the Mass to be done in a single common language rather than a mishmash of different languages.

So, again, if your parish is using Latin, it is because it was the priest’s choice (and one that I personally agree with, mind you), not because there are “changes” or a “new way of doing things in the Church.” One thing that means is, if you’re against the differences in your parish, you should mention it to the priest, since he has the power to go back; and, more importantly, if you support them and you like the differences, you should tell him, because I’m sure he’s gotten resistance from other people and would be glad to know that you support what he’s doing.
 
I think a lot of the “reversion” to previous devotions may depend on where you live. In the part of the country where I reside, things have stayed the way they’ve been for the last 30+ years. There is certainly intent (and education planned accordingly) to incorporate the new English translation, and there is active evangelization here, but nothing in the liturgies has changed.

The parishes here have always had Adoration, and some seniors stay after daily Mass for a communal rosary – but those are more personal devotions and not especially promoted.

I don’t know how it is where you live, but here we have liturgies that are tailored (mostly by music choice) to different groups in the parish – young people, older people, families – so we have a choice in some incidentals as to how we prefer to worship.

If you’re uncomfortable because of prior experience with the use of Latin or other more traditional practices, maybe you can find a parish that hasn’t made any of those changes and doesn’t plan to.

Worship is, in my opinion, both personal and communal, and if you’re distracted by the form of that worship, your heart won’t be at peace.

By the way – welcome back to the Church – God bless you on your new journey.
 
challam2010 said:
I think a lot of the “reversion” to previous devotions may depend on where you live. In the part of the country where I reside, things have stayed the way they’ve been for the last 30+ years. There is certainly intent (and education planned accordingly) to incorporate the new English translation, and there is active evangelization here, but nothing in the liturgies has changed.

The parishes here have always had Adoration, and some seniors stay after daily Mass for a communal rosary – but those are more personal devotions and not especially promoted.

I don’t know how it is where you live, but here we have liturgies that are tailored (mostly by music choice) to different groups in the parish – young people, older people, families – so we have a choice in some incidentals as to how we prefer to worship.

If you’re uncomfortable because of prior experience with the use of Latin or other more traditional practices, maybe you can find a parish that hasn’t made any of those changes and doesn’t plan to.

Worship is, in my opinion, both personal and communal, and if you’re distracted by the form of that worship, your heart won’t be at peace.

By the way – welcome back to the Church – God bless you on your new journey.
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I get the impression Mass is about the participants, about keeping this group or that group entertained so they will keep coming back. Do yourselves a favor and read the attached:
copiosa.org/mass/mass_participation.htm
 
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