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Seamus_L
Guest
Does anyone know the Holy See’s position on this ?
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giuseppeTO
Guest
There is nothing that prevents it, assuming one’s soul is in the state of Sanctifying Grace.Does anyone know the Holy See’s position on this ?
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Layman
Guest
AFAIK, the only members of the SSPX are their bishops and priests; it’s a priestly society. The laity are members of the Catholic Church. So they can receive communion in other Catholic churches.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
On the other hand, the Pope himself said for the second time this year that the clergy of SSPX do NOT minister licitly as Catholic clergy.
Those faithful who freqent their services are possibly committing an act of schism.
Those faithful who freqent their services are possibly committing an act of schism.
M
maurin
Guest
Thank you Your Eminence for clarifying the word’s of our Pope, who loves us inspite of these lies.On the other hand, the Pope himself said for the second time this year that the clergy of SSPX do NOT minister licitly as Catholic clergy.
Those faithful who freqent their services are possibly committing an act of schism.
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Walking_Home
Guest
On the other hand, the Pope himself said for the second time this year that the clergy of SSPX do NOT minister licitly as Catholic clergy.
Those faithful who freqent their services are possibly committing an act of schism.
I subscribe to the Zoghby initiative.
You subscribe to the Zoghby initiative----wouldn’t this make you wounded like the Orthodox. In “imperfect” communion.
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rpp
Guest
What is the Zohgby Initiative?
As for the OP’s question, I would answer with a questions, What makes you think that a lay person who frequents an SSPX chapel for Mass, even Sunday Mass, cannot receive Holy Communion in a non-SSPX Catholic parish?
As for the OP’s question, I would answer with a questions, What makes you think that a lay person who frequents an SSPX chapel for Mass, even Sunday Mass, cannot receive Holy Communion in a non-SSPX Catholic parish?
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maurin
Guest
in a nutshell, rpp, and I am oversimplifying, Zoghby was (I believe he’s passed away?) a Melkite (Bishop?) who advocated going into full Communion with the schismatic Orthodox Churches without waiting for Rome to do so. Zoghby’s superior made it clear that His Excellency Zoghby was speaking his own mind, and not the mind of the Melkite Hierarchy.
google “Zoghby initiative.” there’s a lot of material to read through.
google “Zoghby initiative.” there’s a lot of material to read through.
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Walking_Home
Guest
What is the Zohgby Initiative?
The Zohgby initiative:
Code:
1. I believe everything which Eastern Orthodoxy teaches.
2. I am in communion with the Bishop of Rome as the **first among the bishops,** according to the limits recognized by the Holy Fathers of the East during the first millennium, before the separation.[22]
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rpp
Guest
Ah yes. I checked it out. I am not sure if he was very foolish or very brave. Or perhaps even both.
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
I don’t know the pope’s position on this.Does anyone know the Holy See’s position on this ?
But if he has said that the SSPX priests’ masses are not licit, the laity who persist in attending them knowing they aren’t licit show an attitude of '" just don’t give a dern what the pope says, he is wrong, I will do it anyway!". Is this attitude toward the pope’s lawful authority sinful? Should it be confessed before receiving communion in a church in union with the pope?
If they do receive communion in a Catholic church which is in union with the pope, wouldn’t that indicate a unity which they don’t have?
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pnewton
Guest
This is the best answer. The odds that someone attending the SSPX having developed a mortal sin of schism and still wanting to attend another Catholic Mass sounds like a contradition that would never happen. All things being equal, this sin should not be presumed just because someone attends the SSPX chapels.There is nothing that prevents it, assuming one’s soul is in the state of Sanctifying Grace.
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maurin
Guest
Claire, you’re trying to fool us if you don’t think what you just got finished saying doesn’t apply to many many Parishes around the world supposedly in Communion with His Holiness. Google pronouncements made by the president of the German Bishops. Google the Corpus Christi Procession in one of the Dioceses in Germany who had a female protestant minister lead, with the priest, the procession. It’s all quite telling.I don’t know the pope’s position on this.
But if he has said that the SSPX priests’ masses are not licit, the laity who persist in attending them knowing they aren’t licit show an attitude of '" just don’t give a dern what the pope says, he is wrong, I will do it anyway!". Is this attitude toward the pope’s lawful authority sinful? Should it be confessed before receiving communion in a church in union with the pope?
If they do receive communion in a Catholic church which is in union with the pope, wouldn’t that indicate a unity which they don’t have?
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Seamus_L
Guest
If those who attend mass at SSPX churches should not receive communion, I’d say the Holy See is rather inconsistent in allowing the Orthodox and members of the Polish National Catholic Church to receive. We have quite alot more in common with the SSPX then we do with those churches.
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DorianGregorian
Guest
First off, as it has been said, it is a Priestly Society, not a lay society. The SSPX acknowledges H.H Pope Benedict XVI as the successor of Peter and Vicar of Christ, they are not sedevacantist.
If you go to a SSPX it may be sinful if you are trying to separate yourself from Rome and say, I don’t acknowledge the Pope. However it is not if you are simply going because you like the 1962 Liturgy.
That is my understanding of Msgr. Perl’s letter givens here: freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/830510/posts
“1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X.”
His second question was “Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass” and we responded stating:
“2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin.”
Laus Deo
If you go to a SSPX it may be sinful if you are trying to separate yourself from Rome and say, I don’t acknowledge the Pope. However it is not if you are simply going because you like the 1962 Liturgy.
That is my understanding of Msgr. Perl’s letter givens here: freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/830510/posts
“1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X.”
His second question was “Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass” and we responded stating:
“2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin.”
Laus Deo
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
But this would be allowed only in the specific situation in which they have no church of their own which they can attend, they feel an intense need for the sacraments, and they ask the pastor for permission. The Orthodox churches don’t permit their members to receive the Catholic church sacraments.If those who attend mass at SSPX churches should not receive communion, I’d say the Holy See is rather inconsistent in allowing the Orthodox and members of the Polish National Catholic Church to receive. We have quite alot more in common with the SSPX then we do with those churches.
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maurin
Guest
I don’t know the pope’s position on this.
But if he has said that the SSPX priests’ masses are not licit, the laity who persist in attending them knowing they aren’t licit show an attitude of '" just don’t give a dern what the pope says, he is wrong, I will do it anyway!". Is this attitude toward the pope’s lawful authority sinful? Should it be confessed before receiving communion in a church in union with the pope?
If they do receive communion in a Catholic church which is in union with the pope, wouldn’t that indicate a unity which they don’t have?
If those who attend mass at SSPX churches should not receive communion, I’d say the Holy See is rather inconsistent in allowing the Orthodox and members of the Polish National Catholic Church to receive. We have quite alot more in common with the SSPX then we do with those churches.
Claire, could you explain how what you are saying makes sense? I’m trying to follow your logic, and am not successful. You’re saying ok to interCommunion with schismatic Churches which absolutely deny the Papacy and declaring it sinful for the lay people of a Society that openly professes loyalty to the Pope who may wish to receive Communion.But this would be allowed only in the specific situation in which they have no church of their own which they can attend, they feel an intense need for the sacraments, and they ask the pastor for permission. The Orthodox churches don’t permit their members to receive the Catholic church sacraments.
How does this make sense?
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DorianGregorian
Guest
Catholics CANNOT receive Orthodox sacraments unless there is a SERIOUS & GRAVE reason (the person would basically have to be bleeding out, and there would be no time to call even a laicized Catholic Priest.) Even then one would not be obligated.
That said the SSPX does not consider itsself a separate Church. They even specifically say they are not a Church. The Vatican has said this is an internal matter, not a matter with another Church.
Laus Deo
That said the SSPX does not consider itsself a separate Church. They even specifically say they are not a Church. The Vatican has said this is an internal matter, not a matter with another Church.
Laus Deo
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire from DE forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*I don’t know the pope’s position on this.
But if he has said that the SSPX priests’ masses are not licit, the laity who persist in attending them knowing they aren’t licit show an attitude of '" just don’t give a dern what the pope says, he is wrong, I will do it anyway!". Is this attitude toward the pope’s lawful authority sinful? Should it be confessed before receiving communion in a church in union with the pope?
If they do receive communion in a Catholic church which is in union with the pope, wouldn’t that indicate a unity which they don’t have?*
So should I say,“The Catholic Church has many doctrines and disciplines. Reject the ones that you aren’t comfortable with. That’s OK. God understands. Lots of other people do the same thing. Be happy, don’t worry. You’re still good Catholics.”??? No, I would want them to be in unity with the Church.
Originally Posted by Claire from DE forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*I don’t know the pope’s position on this.
But if he has said that the SSPX priests’ masses are not licit, the laity who persist in attending them knowing they aren’t licit show an attitude of '" just don’t give a dern what the pope says, he is wrong, I will do it anyway!". Is this attitude toward the pope’s lawful authority sinful? Should it be confessed before receiving communion in a church in union with the pope?
If they do receive communion in a Catholic church which is in union with the pope, wouldn’t that indicate a unity which they don’t have?*
So, just because some parishes or bishops are rebellious or wacky, that means it’s OK? I know that there are cafeteria Catholics who don’t accept some church teachings who still receive communion. I do think that indicates a unity which they don’t have. I thought it would be rather insulting to say I put those who attend the SSPX masses in the same category as the cafeteria Catholics.Claire, you’re trying to fool us if you don’t think what you just got finished saying doesn’t apply to many many Parishes around the world supposedly in Communion with His Holiness. Google pronouncements made by the president of the German Bishops. Google the Corpus Christi Procession in one of the Dioceses in Germany who had a female protestant minister lead, with the priest, the procession. It’s all quite telling.
So should I say,“The Catholic Church has many doctrines and disciplines. Reject the ones that you aren’t comfortable with. That’s OK. God understands. Lots of other people do the same thing. Be happy, don’t worry. You’re still good Catholics.”??? No, I would want them to be in unity with the Church.
M
maurin
Guest
You’ve got that backwards, Claire. The SSPX passes on what Catholics have always received prior to the Council–authentic Catholic Teaching. If the SSPX is wrong now, the Church was wrong then. If the Church was right then, these teachings are right now. It is not the SSPX who has changed the teachings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire from DE forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*I don’t know the pope’s position on this.
But if he has said that the SSPX priests’ masses are not licit, the laity who persist in attending them knowing they aren’t licit show an attitude of '" just don’t give a dern what the pope says, he is wrong, I will do it anyway!". Is this attitude toward the pope’s lawful authority sinful? Should it be confessed before receiving communion in a church in union with the pope?
If they do receive communion in a Catholic church which is in union with the pope, wouldn’t that indicate a unity which they don’t have?*
So, just because some parishes or bishops are rebellious or wacky, that means it’s OK? I know that there are cafeteria Catholics who don’t accept some church teachings who still receive communion. I do think that indicates a unity which they don’t have. I thought it would be rather insulting to say I put those who attend the SSPX masses in the same category as the cafeteria Catholics.
So should I say,“The Catholic Church has many doctrines and disciplines. Reject the ones that you aren’t comfortable with. That’s OK. God understands. Lots of other people do the same thing. Be happy, don’t worry. You’re still good Catholics.”??? No, I would want them to be in unity with the Church.
You still have not answered the question. How is it logical for you to condone intercommunion with schismatic Churches who deny the Papacy, yet declare it sinful for the lay people of the SSPX to receive Communion in a NO Parish, if they desired?
Please explain the logic you are using.
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