Can the Episcopal Church be saved?

  • Thread starter Thread starter DeusExMachina
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4O.HTM

Canon 1251.

I don’t believe that eating a hamburger off the dollar menu or going out for a seafood dinner would be appropriate during Lent. I believe having a tuna sandwich or some other more modest fish, vegetable, or salad (no meat) meal would be more appropriate during Lent.
I believe Sy Noe was referring to scriptural texts that dictate what one eats on Fridays during Lent. (Please correct me if I am mistaken, Sy.) Remember that people did not celebrate Easter, much less Lent, for centuries into the Christian era.
 
Why is morality the bottom line concern for you?
In and of itself, it isn’t. However, when people question why the divide exists between Rome and Canterbury, it is helpful to remember that the two groups operate from a completely different paradigm of what is right and what is wrong.
 
I believe Sy Noe was referring to scriptural texts that dictate what one eats on Fridays during Lent. (Please correct me if I am mistaken, Sy.) Remember that people did not celebrate Easter, much less Lent, for centuries into the Christian era.
You might be overplaying your hand here; we have St. Melito’s Paschal homily from the third quarter of the second century. The Christian Pashcal feast has been celebrated since at least then.
 
I believe Sy Noe was referring to scriptural texts that dictate what one eats on Fridays during Lent. (Please correct me if I am mistaken, Sy.) Remember that people did not celebrate Easter, much less Lent, for centuries into the Christian era.
You’re not mistaken since scriptural texts were indeed the context of the post I had replied to.
 
You might be overplaying your hand here; we have St. Melito’s Paschal homily from the third quarter of the second century. The Christian Pashcal feast has been celebrated since at least then.
You are right. Thank you for the catch.
 
In and of itself, it isn’t. However, when people question why the divide exists between Rome and Canterbury, it is helpful to remember that the two groups operate from a completely different paradigm of what is right and what is wrong.
Theological? Social issues? Liturgical practice?

I would say the paradigms are very similar in most cases; you walk into a Sunday morning mass and would not be able to tell the difference, except if the priest is a woman. Same readings, same liturgical texts (virtually). I’ll grant you that Anglican music might be better than many guitar playing RC masses.

Both are liturgical and sacramental churches.
 
No! The main difference is not that Roman Catholics have a Pope. There are many differences. First, contraception is not allowed in the RCC (unless for medical reasons). Same sex “marrriage” is not allowed in the RCC, either. No holy orders in TEC, but the RCC has them. If it wasn’t for Catholicism, there wouldn’t be TEC. I could go on and on.

As for the TEC being liberal, I believe they most certainly are. When a church condones abortion, same sex “marriage,” etc. not only is it liberal but also immoral.
I’m a lifelong Episcopalian, I’ve worshipped in plenty of Catholic Churches over the years and I know a great deal about both denominations. I’ve never found much that separates us, but I respect that you have.

Like the RC Church, TEC considers abortion a serious matter. Unlike the RC Church, we honor the wisdom and justice of Roe v. Wade, but there are certainly individual Episcopalians who feel differently about that.

I agree that the leadership of our respective churches have different beliefs about contraception, abortion and homosexuality. But, in the pews, not so much.
 
I agree that the leadership of our respective churches have different beliefs about contraception, abortion and homosexuality. But, in the pews, not so much.
Little Sheep, your last sentence is interesting. Are you saying that in your part of the country, people in the pew tend to be conservative?

In my part of the country, they tend to be liberal on social issues, both Episcopalians and Roman Catholics.
 
I’m a lifelong Episcopalian, I’ve worshipped in plenty of Catholic Churches over the years and I know a great deal about both denominations. I’ve never found much that separates us, but I respect that you have.

Like the RC Church, TEC considers abortion a serious matter. Unlike the RC Church, we honor the wisdom and justice of Roe v. Wade, but there are certainly individual Episcopalians who feel differently about that.

I agree that the leadership of our respective churches have different beliefs about contraception, abortion and homosexuality. But, in the pews, not so much.
I was a lifelong Episcopalian until I recently converted to Catholicism.

The Catholic Church does not believe in abortion, period. As for TEC “honoring the wisdom” of Roe v. Wade, that sounds like TEC is okay with abortion. So, it would seem that TEC is okay with killing babies. That doesn’t sound very Christian to me, and it is against the Sixth Commandment.

As for the churches having different beliefs, but the congregants thinking the same, I disagree. The Catholics I know are not okay with homosexuality, abortion, and contraception. I know Protestants who are okay with all three of those things. In addition, it is **Roman Catholic teaching **that those three things are immoral, unlike TEC.
 
Little Sheep, your last sentence is interesting. Are you saying that in your part of the country, people in the pew tend to be conservative?

In my part of the country, they tend to be liberal on social issues, both Episcopalians and Roman Catholics.
You live in a well known liberal city. Of course, there are going to be people there that are very liberal on certain issues.
 
Unlike the RC Church, we honor the wisdom and justice of Roe v. Wade
The only justice that will result from Roe v. Wade will be the justice exacted by God on those who support its destruction of the innocent.
 
I was a lifelong Episcopalian until I recently converted to Catholicism.

The Catholic Church does not believe in abortion, period. As for TEC “honoring the wisdom” of Roe v. Wade, that sounds like TEC is okay with abortion. I have always thought that TEC has and still is okay with abortion.

As for the churches having different beliefs, but the congregants thinking the same, I disagree. The Catholics I know are not okay with homosexuality, abortion, and contraception. I know Protestants who are okay with all three of those things. In addition, it is **Roman Catholic teaching **that those three things are immoral, unlike TEC.
GracefulLamb, we know and understand that your recent conversion to the Roman Catholic Church means a lot to you, and that you were unhappy with the Episcopal Church. The two denominations are, indeed, quite different in their approaches to things like contraception and abortion. The RCC lays out specific rules/teachings in black and white. There is no grey area. The Episcopal Church does not do that. In the matter of contraception, there really isn’t anything the church says about it. It pretty much assumes that it is a health care decision, not a religious decision.

But that is why you are now a Roman Catholic, and I am still - and will always be - an Episcopalian. The most important thing, though, is that we are all followers of Christ.
 
I’m a lifelong Episcopalian, I’ve worshipped in plenty of Catholic Churches over the years and I know a great deal about both denominations. I’ve never found much that separates us, but I respect that you have.

Like the RC Church, TEC considers abortion a serious matter. Unlike the RC Church, we honor the wisdom and justice of Roe v. Wade, but there are certainly individual Episcopalians who feel differently about that.

I agree that the leadership of our respective churches have different beliefs about contraception, abortion and homosexuality. But, in the pews, not so much.
How can you honour abortion for any reason the woman wants?
 
Another woman’s uterus is none of your business unless she invites you into it. I find other opinions Scandalous.
One might as well defend antebellum slavery on the ground that a man’s home is his castle. There is another person involved. 😦
 
GracefulLamb, we know and understand that your recent conversion to the Roman Catholic Church means a lot to you, and that you were unhappy with the Episcopal Church. The two denominations are, indeed, quite different in their approaches to things like contraception and abortion. The RCC lays out specific rules/teachings in black and white. There is no grey area. The Episcopal Church does not do that. In the matter of contraception, there really isn’t anything the church says about it. It pretty much assumes that it is a health care decision, not a religious decision.
The Anglican and Episcopal tradition once upheld the Natural Law, and common Christian tradition for most of its history. Only in recent decades did Anglican and Episcopal leaders move away from their traditional teachings on matters such as abortion, contraception, and homosexual actions. In other words, in effect the RCC upholds Anglican/Episcopal tradition more than those churches themselves now do.
 
The Anglican and Episcopal tradition once upheld the Natural Law, and common Christian tradition for most of its history. Only in recent decades did Anglican and Episcopal leaders move away from their traditional teachings on matters such as abortion, contraception, and homosexual actions. In other words, in effect the RCC upholds Anglican/Episcopal tradition more than those churches themselves now do.
We have to be careful to remember that Canterbury and the Episcopal churches in the US and Canada are a tiny fraction of the Communion. The vast majority of Anglicans worldwide still retain adherence to God’s law on those matters.

However, otherwise you’re quite correct. Their open rebellion and support of sin have cut them off from Christ and made them inconsequential to other apostolic churches.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top