Can the Episcopal Church be saved?

[Sy_Noe]

I love to meet people who know God’s mind. God bless!

Little Sheep, you beat me to it.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

GracefulLamb, we know and understand that your recent conversion to the Roman Catholic Church means a lot to you, and that you were unhappy with the Episcopal Church. The two denominations are, indeed, quite different in their approaches to things like contraception and abortion. The RCC lays out specific rules/teachings in black and white. There is no grey area. The Episcopal Church does not do that. In the matter of contraception, there really isn’t anything the church says about it. It pretty much assumes that it is a health care decision, not a religious decision.

But that is why you are now a Roman Catholic, and I am still - and will always be - an Episcopalian. The most important thing, though, is that we are all followers of Christ.

I mentioned that I was in TEC before because the poster I quoted said he/she was.

Yes, the two religions are different in their teachings.

Contraception is a “health care decision?”

 

[Abu]

Little Sheep #87
Like the RC Church, TEC considers abortion a serious matter. Unlike the RC Church, we honor the wisdom and justice of Roe v. Wade, but there are certainly individual Episcopalians who feel differently about thatI agree that the leadership of our respective churches have different beliefs about contraception, abortion and homosexuality. But, in the pews, not so much.
#95
I love to meet people who know God’s mind.

The confusion of belief displayed by those remarks is the antithesis of the clarity with which Christ defined how we are to believe right from wrong and arrive at His truth, when he very clearly founded His Church, and no other, on St Peter and his successors, whom He promised to be with until the end of time.

We know God’s Mind by assenting to His Will through His Church.

Also, there is no “wisdom and justice” in killing human life as the Didache condemned that before A.D. 80, and Biblical statements indicate that the unborn are persons.

Therefore, abortion is wrong since it is killing a human being:
Premise #1: It is wrong to murder a person.
Premise #2: The unborn is a person.
Conclusion: Therefore, it is wrong to murder the unborn.
carm.org/bible-abortion

 

[commenter]

We have to be careful to remember that Canterbury and the Episcopal churches in the US and Canada are a tiny fraction of the Communion. The vast majority of Anglicans worldwide still retain adherence to God’s law on those matters.

However, otherwise you’re quite correct. Their open rebellion and support of sin have cut them off from Christ and made them inconsequential to other apostolic churches.

ok:thumbsup:

 

[Little_Sheep]

Little Sheep, you beat me to it.

Ms. Lamott put it so well, I think - “You can safely assume you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.”

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Ms. Lamott put it so well, I think - “You can safely assume you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.”

Anne Lamott is much loved in this part of the world. We see her often and I’ve been to her church up in Marin County. That quote of hers is spot on. Thank you Little Sheep.

 

[Little_Sheep]

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately. Do you think it is possible to “save” the Catholic Church, and why or why not? While I think it can be done, the facts present a few unique problems: the unorthodoxy which is thought to be widespread in the Church is coming mostly from the hierarchy as well as from in the pews; further more, it isn’t like these clergy are on the fringe either, if anything they’re a majority. This is further complicated by the fact that their isn’t very much of a doctrinal standard they can be held to, at least not any more. So, with all that in mind, can it even be done?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately. Do you think it is possible to “save” the Catholic Church, and why or why not? While I think it can be done, the facts present a few unique problems: the unorthodoxy which is thought to be widespread in the Church is coming mostly from the hierarchy as well as from in the pews; further more, it isn’t like these clergy are on the fringe either, if anything they’re a majority. This is further complicated by the fact that their isn’t very much of a doctrinal standard they can be held to, at least not any more. So, with all that in mind, can it even be done?

Interesting, Little Sheep. I would have said that rather than unorthodoxy being a cause of ‘demise’, the loss is more in people in the pews just leaving. From what I remember of various surveys or studies, it’s either apathy (the ‘nones’), or conversion to another faith community (like in Central and South America), or because of unhappiness with standards (clergy abuse, money mismanagement, social issues).

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately. Do you think it is possible to “save” the Catholic Church, and why or why not? While I think it can be done, the facts present a few unique problems: the unorthodoxy which is thought to be widespread in the Church is coming mostly from the hierarchy as well as from in the pews; further more, it isn’t like these clergy are on the fringe either, if anything they’re a majority. This is further complicated by the fact that their isn’t very much of a doctrinal standard they can be held to, at least not any more. So, with all that in mind, can it even be done?

I thought this thread was about saving TEC.

The Catholic Church has been around for 2,000 years and still going strong.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Interesting, Little Sheep. I would have said that rather than unorthodoxy being a cause of ‘demise’, the loss is more in people in the pews just leaving. From what I remember of various surveys or studies, it’s either apathy (the ‘nones’), or conversion to another faith community (like in Central and South America), or because of unhappiness with standards (clergy abuse, money mismanagement, social issues).

Here is one of the studies I was thinking of. It only covers the US, but demographically it says that the RCC is declining more than any other denomination, and that for every one convert, there are 6 who leave the church for various reasons. Immigrants to the US seem to be the ones who will ‘save’ it. I don’t think that would be true for other Mainline churches, especially TEC.

cruxnow.com/church/2015/05/12/pew-survey-percentage-of-us-catholics-drops-and-catholicism-is-losing-members-faster-than-any-denomination/

 

[Little_Sheep]

I thought this thread was about saving TEC.

The Catholic Church has been around for 2,000 years and still going strong.

I was being tongue-in-cheek, GL! I changed the OP a little - it seemed timely since there is so much chatter about AL and changing Catholic doctrine.

I was just trying to point out that all denominations include members (both in the hearty and the laity) who might see things differently from one another. That doesn’t mean the denomination is heading for a crash!

Have a wonderful day!

 

[Little_Sheep]

Here is one of the studies I was thinking of. It only covers the US, but demographically it says that the RCC is declining more than any other denomination, and that for every one convert, there are 6 who leave the church for various reasons. Immigrants to the US seem to be the ones who will ‘save’ it. I don’t think that would be true for other Mainline churches, especially TEC.

cruxnow.com/church/2015/05/12/pew-survey-percentage-of-us-catholics-drops-and-catholicism-is-losing-members-faster-than-any-denomination/

I agree that membership is down for most Christian churches. My post was a playful re-imagining of the original post.