Can the Latin mass speak to all?

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I agree! And if I didn’t need to go to work to make a living, I would be there faithfully every single morning, every day of the year. This to me would be heaven.
I would suggest moving to Magog, QC. You’d be a half an hour away from a Benedictine Abbey that not only does the Ordinary every day in Latin (not to forget the Greek Kyrie), but the Propers too. And it’s an OF Mass. Every single day. No exceptions.

There are probably other places too. Certainly in France and Italy I know of several. Probably the US as well.

As it happens there are a number of retired faithful that do show up there every day for Mass. I wish I were one of them, but at best I can manage Sunday Mass every Sunday and Vespers from time to time. Another couple of years and I’ll be able to attend more often, God willing… 😃
 
Many missionaries even back in time have petitioned the pope for permission to use vernacular in Mass. The idea that we need Latin to preserve unity is hard to comprehend given that Eastern churches do not need to have the same language to stay in communion to one another. The bond that we share isn’t Latin, it’s Christ. While I agree that some aspect of the liturgy should have Latin (like the EWTN mass) and that churches, if it wish to honor tradition, should be able to celebrate Mass in Latin, there is no reason to keep Latin as mandatory in church. In fact with vernacular widely in use we have seen a rise in converts in third world countries. Perhaps European Catholics need Latin Mass, but to many non-Europeans Latin is irrelevant to their lives.

I think what we need is more revevent mass, perhaps somewhere in the middle where we can have the Extraordinary form celebrated in vernacular
 
Plus isn’t it a little ironic that the use of Latin orginially intended to help the people understand Mass now become some liturgical language people can’t understand?
 
I would suggest moving to Magog, QC. You’d be a half an hour away from a Benedictine Abbey that not only does the Ordinary every day in Latin (not to forget the Greek Kyrie), but the Propers too. And it’s an OF Mass. Every single day. No exceptions.

There are probably other places too. Certainly in France and Italy I know of several. Probably the US as well.

As it happens there are a number of retired faithful that do show up there every day for Mass. I wish I were one of them, but at best I can manage Sunday Mass every Sunday and Vespers from time to time. Another couple of years and I’ll be able to attend more often, God willing… 😃
I had to chuckle about moving to QC!

When I was growing up in Kansas, USA, in grade school we went to Mass every day except Saturdays, and in high school, it was the same. Every day except Saturdays. I just miss that. And it was the EF Mass.

In the 1970’s I got married, had children, the Mass had changed, and then everything was different. I course, then I was an “adult”.

I am now waiting to retire in almost 5 years. I hope to be able to go to Mass again every day. 🙂
 
Latin is fine in all but it should never be imposed on those who don’t want it. There many ways to worship God and Latin isn’t the only language that is pleasing to Him.
 
I once asked a lady at a bus stop where parishes were that had good Masses. She named a few, giving their locations. Of one she said that they do some latin there, which she guessed was ok, but, she said, “To me, that is going backwards.” I just looked at her like she had just spoken in a foreign language. I found it interesting that she did not mention the FSSP parish that was only a few blocks away.
Her statement epitomizes the prevailing attitude among many that the Church needs to change to accommodate the times- to “move forward.” By that same reasoning the Church should ordain women, condone birth control, perhaps even abortion, celebrate same sex marriages, embrace the fundamental option, etc. etc. It is secularism, plain and simple. I totally agree with what others imply here- the Church is not here to adapt and change to passing fads and changing culture. The Church is immemorial and eternal, and it has its own language, a language which takes effort and diligence to understand.
 
Latin is fine in all but it should never be imposed on those who don’t want it. There many ways to worship God and Latin isn’t the only language that is pleasing to Him.
I guess what I am trying to say is: while growing up, the Latin Mass made the mass seem very holy to me. When the Mass changed to English, it seemed to me to have lost the "holiness " about it. And please, don’t get me wrong…I KNOW the Mass IS HOLY either way. And, I was just a kid back then.

The Mass is to me now is entirely about the Holy Eucharist, Christ Our Lord.

But, you are right. Latin should not be imposed on those who don’t want it. And to my understanding, when I was younger, the Mass in Latin made some leave even back then because they couldn’t understand it.
 
I guess what I am trying to say is: while growing up, the Latin Mass made the mass seem very holy to me. When the Mass changed to English, it seemed to me to have lost the "holiness " about it. And please, don’t get me wrong…I KNOW the Mass IS HOLY either way. And, I was just a kid back then.

The Mass is to me now is entirely about the Holy Eucharist, Christ Our Lord.

But, you are right. Latin should not be imposed on those who don’t want it. And to my understanding, when I was younger, the Mass in Latin made some leave even back then because they couldn’t understand it.
That’s awesome that you can relate to God more in the Latin mass. Continue to do what works for you in your relationship with God.👍
 
Her statement epitomizes the prevailing attitude among many that the Church needs to change to accommodate the times- to “move forward.” By that same reasoning the Church should ordain women, condone birth control, perhaps even abortion, celebrate same sex marriages, embrace the fundamental option, etc. etc.
There’s a big difference between changing your message, and changing your methods. The things you talk about are based on core tenants, not just of Catholicism, but of the entire Christian faith. Latin…isn’t.
The Church is immemorial and eternal, and it has its own language, a language which takes effort and diligence to understand.
But here’s the thing…it ISN’T “its own language”, its the language of ancient Rome…which, completely aside from being the power that permitted Christ to be put to death, just happened to be the predominant language of the superpower at the time when the early Christian church was established. If the church had been founded later, the language might just as easily have been Turkish, French, or English.
 
The mystery of the mass should be found in what is actually taking place - the transformation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. I point out again, when the mass started, Latin WAS the vernacular. We shouldn’t need to cloak the mass in incomprehensible (to most people) linguistics in order to make it reverent. We need a faith and a worship that can reach directly out to people and pull them in and give a clear relation to modern life. We need people to leave the mass seeing directly how it connects to them, and why they need to come back next week.

One of the areas we’re being absolutely clobbered by Protestants is in how connected people feel to the service. Going back to mandated Latin isn’t going to help. Yes, I like the EF. But I would love the EF if it were in English.

A reverent, audible, comprehensible liturgy is what we need.
WE are getting “clobbered” by poor teaching and people who"want to have their ears tickled".
The average mass is in vernacular now, the reason we are getting “clobbered” is
people can no longer defend the faith not by Latin mass.
 
Many missionaries even back in time have petitioned the pope for permission to use vernacular in Mass. The idea that we need Latin to preserve unity is hard to comprehend given that Eastern churches do not need to have the same language to stay in communion to one another. The bond that we share isn’t Latin, it’s Christ. While I agree that some aspect of the liturgy should have Latin (like the EWTN mass) and that churches, if it wish to honor tradition, should be able to celebrate Mass in Latin, there is no reason to keep Latin as mandatory in church. In fact with vernacular widely in use we have seen a rise in converts in third world countries. Perhaps European Catholics need Latin Mass, but to many non-Europeans Latin is irrelevant to their lives.

I think what we need is more revevent mass, perhaps somewhere in the middle where we can have the Extraordinary form celebrated in vernacular
The mass was in Latin for 1960 years and the catholic church was never stronger, the vernacular mass is a new innovation.
 
The only reason we use Latin is because it was the dominant language spoken at the time the church was founded.
Total nonsense. Koine Greek was the dominant language up until the low middle ages.

You really need to get up to speed on the reasons why Latin is the official language of the Church. Please read Veterum Sapientia and Sacrosanctum Concilium.
 
Her statement epitomizes the prevailing attitude among many that the Church needs to change to accommodate the times- to “move forward.” By that same reasoning the Church should ordain women, condone birth control, perhaps even abortion, celebrate same sex marriages, embrace the fundamental option, etc. etc. It is secularism, plain and simple. I totally agree with what others imply here- the Church is not here to adapt and change to passing fads and changing culture. The Church is immemorial and eternal, and it has its own language, a language which takes effort and diligence to understand.
There is a HUGE difference between Mass in the vernacular, and the ordination of women, condoning of birth control and perhaps abortion, celebrating same sex marriages, etc. To compare vernacular Mass with abortion is, IMO, illogical and inflammatory.

It is frightening to know that there are Catholics who actually believe and say in public that a Mass in the vernacular is equal to condoning abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

The doctrine and dogma of the Catholic Church are unchanging. But the disciplines of the Church change constantly. The Church Herself has decreed the validity and rightness of Mass in the vernacular. For any Catholic to condemn this teaching and compare it to certain grave sins is disturbing, and I hope to heaven that those of you who love the Latin Mass will condemn this type of thinking and rebuke people who make statements like this.
 
“Of its very nature Latin is most suitable for promoting every form of culture among peoples. It gives rise to no jealousies. It does not favor any one nation, but presents itself with equal impartiality to all and is equally acceptable to all… the Catholic Church has a dignity far surpassing that of every merely human society, for it was founded by Christ the Lord. It is altogether fitting, therefore, that the language it uses should be noble, majestic, and non-vernacular… It is also a most effective bond, binding the Church of today with that of the past and of the future in wonderful continuity.” (John XXIII, Veterum Sapientia)

“the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites” (Sacrosanctum Concilium)
 
The very people who use Vatican II to justify their total rejection of Latin are going against the express wishes of the council.
 
And, is there no point to be made that the Latin liturgy was largely incomprehensible to most people for over 1000 years?

I am not saying that there is nothing to be gained by vernacular. That would be silly. But the Church did get along just fine for a very long time with a liturgy that was mostly not understood aurally by the people.

I mean, really. If I could have a Latin ordinary every Sunday, I’d be in paradise. I’d shut up forever! =p
This is illogical, too. We are not those people.

People got along without toilets, antibiotics, tampons, canned food, electricity, computers, cell phones, cars, guns, etc. for 1000s of years, too. But I would NOT want to go back to those days! This is NOW, not THEN!

Nowadays, many people will not tolerate something that they don’t understand. Of course there are exceptions. There are always interesting people who love history, enjoy delving into history, re-enacting and/or re-creating history, going to historical inns and farms to experience life like it used to be, long for a return to the way things were in the past, etc.

But they are exceptions. Many people in this day and age have no interest in the past, and will simply walk away when they can’t understand something. That’s just the way modern people are. We aren’t the way people used to be. All of those modern innovations that I mentioned above have changed the way people are.

We have to deal with modern people differently than people in the past, not just make a general statement that people are the same as they have always been.

Obviously, we have the same need for God and the Church. I’m not saying that our spiritual requirements have changed. But the way we learn about and comprehend God has changed. What might have touched and inspired people in the past does not necessarily affect them positively today, because this is now, not then.

It’s easier for me to give an example from Protestantism. In the past (not so long ago–this happened 50 years ago when I was a child), an “altar call” with persuasive gospel music, pleading, and a line of deacons wrestling for the souls of the unsaved would have brought many people running forward in the church to “get saved.” Nowadays, most people would be completely offended and upset by an old-fashioned “altar call.” It simply doesn’t communicate the same message of hope to most people now. Instead, it communicates emotionalism, intolerance, and silliness to many people.

And as for giving people a translation to read while listening to a Mass in a foreign language–well, that would be useful to you and me, but keep in mind that many people in the developing countries are illiterate. In fact, even in the U.S., there is a fairly large population of people who are illiterate or who have difficulty reading anything past a sixth-grade level (e.g., a typical newspaper).

I hope this post makes sense to those reading this thread. I’m not condemning the Latin Mass for those who love it and find comfort and challenge in it. What I’m saying is that we can’t expect the Latin Mass to speak to all, just some.
 
About “understanding” the Mass, there are a few things that need to be said:
  1. It is not necessary to understand the Mass to fully benefit from its graces.
  2. Modern Catholics see no problem with not understanding Mass when travelling in a foreign country, but they have a nutty when they can’t understand the Latin mass.
  3. Catholic schools should teach Latin, and adults should learn it by taking evening classes. So many people are ready to learn foreign languages, but they totally neglect the language of the Church, which is their own language.
 
I point out again, when the mass started, Latin WAS the vernacular.
When the Mass started being said in Latin, the common folk actually spoke Vulgar Latin which is quite different and not necessarily mutually-intelligible with literary Latin.

A parallel can be made with Hebrew. When our Lord walked the earth, most Jews barely understood their liturgical language, but they didn’t switch to Aramaic or Greek, and our Lord didn’t have anything to say about that.
 
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