Can the Resurrection be disproved?

[SalamKhan]

Why do they say he only rose spiritually? What is their evidence?

I don’t know, I simply stated that there were groups who did, as mentioned earlier in the thread:

There is the argument stating that the earliest Christians didn’t believe in the physical resurrection of Christ.

This was a hot topic with Early Christians. It led to quite a few different groups who defined Christ’s passion in some interesting ways, and heretical ways.

When were the Ebonites established? Were they ever supported by the Apostles?

Supposedly they were from James the Just’s followers.

 

[EZweber]

That simply isn’t enough evidence to combat the Christian view. The evidence is that the best authorities (the Apostles) all believed in the Resurrection.

 

[meltzerboy2]

I am sure this is meant to be sarcasm. In other words, how could the event have happened this way?

 

[SalamKhan]

The evidence is that the best authorities (the Apostles) all believed in the Resurrection.

Yeah…just as you don’t have to believe that any of the ‘Judaizers’ had any link to James or any of the Apostles, I don’t have to believe that your Church or whoever the four Evangelists were, have/had any link to the Apostles.

 

[meltzerboy2]

In the same way there is not enough evidence to DISPROVE the existence of UFO’s or ghosts. True believers of these things will swear to them no matter what. Likewise, most of the Apostles were true believers even before the Resurrection. They gave up virtually everything to follow Jesus. How could they not believe now after all they had sacrificed. The psychological principle involved is cognitive dissonance, that is, not to believe in the Resurrection would mean all their sacrifice was in vain.

Alternatively, for most of those of the Christian faith, the Resurrection genuinely occurred.

 

[po18guy]

On principle, it cannot be proven that such an event did not occur, only that it did. Allegations to the contrary demonstrate nothing more than doubt.

 

[EZweber]

Likewise, most of the apostles were true believers even before the resurrection. They gave up virtually everything to follow Jesus. How could they not believe now after all they had sacrificed. The psychological principle involved is cognitive dissonance, that is, to not believe in the Resurrection would mean all their sacrifice was in vain.

As is strongly implied in the NT, they could have just gone back to fishing. Also, isn’t it a little bit unusual that all of them suffered from the same delusion, and were remarkably consistent in their claims? Not to mention that, they would have discovered that they had not given up everything while they were being crucified, scourged, boiled in oil…

 

[Isearch]

But if what SalamKhan said about the Ebionites were true, one of the greatest defenses (if not the greatest defense) for the historicity of the Resurrection of Jesus is now rendered useless. I have to admit that this has, at best, made me more doubtful of Christianity’s truth.

Oh well, one must follow truth, wherever it is.

 

[meltzerboy2]

It is NOT a delusion. It is, perhaps, what is called an illusion. We know based on psychological research that when people invest a good deal of time, energy, and effort in an enterprise–whether it be religious, political, social, artistic–they are very reluctant to deny its value. So of course they could NOT just go back to being fishermen because they had committed their lives and fortunes to Jesus even to the point of martyrdom. There are also martyrs in other religions and martyrs to other, nonreligious causes. This is how the human mind typically functions; otherwise, we would be forced to admit that our beliefs are to no avail.

 

[EZweber]

I am practically hitting myself on the head for not saying this in the last post, but if it was an example of cognitive dissonance, why didn’t the authorities just produce the body? It would have been no trouble at all and an effective way of crushing Christianity.

 

[EZweber]

It is NOT a delusion. We know based on psychological research that when people invest a good deal of time, energy, and effort in an enterprise–whether it be religious, political, social, artistic–they are very reluctant to deny its value. So of course they could NOT just go back to being fishermen because they had committed their lives and fortunes to Jesus even to the point of martyrdom. There are also martyrs in other religions and martyrs to other, nonreligious causes. This is how the human mind typically functions; otherwise, we would be forced to admit that our beliefs are to no avail.

If I was just making something up like that, and you threatened to crucify me for it, I wouldn’t even think before I denied it.

 

[SalamKhan]

But if what SalamKhan said about the Ebionites were true

This is written from an Ismaili Shiah point of view but nonetheless the historical information in it is quite important:

The Imamat of James: Brother of Jesus, Successor of Christ & Leader of Early Christianity

Every Prophet has had a Legatee (wasi) in whom the Light of the Imamate has been firmly set and established with surety, and to whom the knowledge of prophecy has been temporarily entrusted through…

ismailignosis.com

 

[meltzerboy2]

Ye of little faith.

 

[po18guy]

The sure sign of a false religion is one which specifically overturns revealed and established truth. Read Genesis 3, in which the devil overturned God’s truth as revealed to Adam and Eve. The devil, for all of his intellect, is bound by his ego and his repetitive patterns are easily spotted.

Christ established that the true faith is difficult to join and easy to leave (Matthew 19:16-22, Luke 9:23, John 6:60-66).

Another sign of falsity is a religion which is easy to join and hard to leave (threats, shunning, physical punishment etc.)

 

[meltzerboy2]

There are rebuttals regarding this topic, involving a time delay announcing the Resurrection, which coincided with the Jewish holiday of Shavuot, that is, 50 days later, the Pentecost, recounted in the Book of Acts. As a result, no positive identification would be possible.

Of course, if you believe the recounting that the tomb was found empty (three days later?), that is based on your Christian faith.

 

[Isearch]

I am not necessarily drawn to Islam more than I am drawn to becoming a Noachide (in other words, believing Judaism is true without converting to it).

 

[po18guy]

Christianity is the only faith which was prophesied long before it was realized. The only one. Good to ponder.

Judaism and Christianity are not at odds, as many would suggest. Whereas converts to Judaism must renounce any and all prior religious belief, Jewish converts to Christianity renounce nothing.

An excellent conversion story:

 

[Isearch]

Most of the “prophesies” about the Messiah have long been interpreted, reinterpreted, and misinterpreted to mean what most Jews, Christians, and Muslims want them to mean. But, the Resurrection would have proven beyond doubt that whatever the message of Jesus was is from God.

 

[meltzerboy2]

No need to convert if you are not convinced. Noachide is great, or Christianity, if you prefer. Judaism believes there is room enough for all and that Judaism is not for everyone. You can still be “Jewish” by means of your moral values and practices even if you are not officially so.

 

[SalamKhan]

true faith is difficult to join and easy to leave

I find it hard to join a cult which practices human sacrifice, but easy to leave it after feeling revulsion witnessing the human sacrifice first hand. It this a sign that the cult is true?

hard to leave (threats, shunning, physical punishment etc.)

You are referring to death for apostasy in Islam, which is not even a black and white issue. Also, this describes Christianity for much of its history as well.