Can the souls in Hell possess people?

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Gorgias said:
You’ve asserted this twice now, but this is not what the Catholic Church teaches. In the catechism (see #1033 and following), it is taught that "mmediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell" (CCC, 1035). At Jesus’ second coming, all will receive their glorified bodies, but those who have been damned will exist eternally in hell in bodily form.

In my great-grandmother’s “New Catholic Version” Bible, which is based on the Douay-Rheims, the most vile damned, such as specific demons prior to the Flood of Noah, are bound in chains in a place called “Tartarus.” Tartarus is described in 2 Peter, & in most translations it’s mistranslated “hell,” except in certain versions such as the New Catholic Version & the Hollman’s Christian Standard Bible. Tartarus is the lowest part of Hades, which is not Hell (Gehenna). Those who die go to Hades first (Revelation Ch.19), & then after Christ’s Second Coming, after He rules for 1,000 years, those in Hades get cast into the lake of fire (Revelation Ch.20). The lake of fire is actually Hell (Gehenna), not Hades. Hades is a current, temporary place of punishment for the damned. Hell (the lake of fire, Gehenna) is the future, eternal place of eternal torment of the damned. But, Scripturally, no one - including demons - are actually “in” Hell yet.
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Apparently Judas is said to be in possessed people. But I do not think that the damned human souls possess people only the devil and his demons.
 
opusAquinas said:
Apparently Judas is said to be in possessed people. But I do not think that the damned human souls possess people only the devil and his demons.
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You are correct that the damned souls don’t possess other people & that includes Judas. When Judas died, he immediately went to Hades, where he has been tortured by demons for nearly 2,000 years. What’s worse, is that it’s going to get worse from him, when he’s cast from Hades into Hell (Gehenna, the lake of fire) at the end of human history. And, you are correct that the devil & demons can possess people…except for Christians who are “possessed” by the Holy Spirit.
 
I do not think dead human souls can possess the living.I think only demons do that.
@Thetatzlord, what you say about Hades its quite interesting,and i’ll have to verify it from official catholic sources.
Its also worth noting that we Catholics believe that there is a place after death, called Purgatory, destined for souls, who have been saved, but not pure enough to enter heaven.In purgatory,these souls get purified and made pure and holy before going to heaven spotless.It is my understanding that all souls in purgatory eventually go to heaven.
 
thetazlord said:
You are correct that the damned souls don’t possess other people & that includes Judas. When Judas died, he immediately went to Hades, where he has been tortured by demons for nearly 2,000 years. What’s worse, is that it’s going to get worse from him, when he’s cast from Hades into Hell (Gehenna, the lake of fire) at the end of human history. And, you are correct that the devil & demons can possess people…except for Christians who are “possessed” by the Holy Spirit.
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Christians can be possessed. This is why it is a sacrilege because the Holy Spirit and the evil ones are dwelling in the same place. But it is possible that the Holy Spirit withdraws from those who, incredibly, welcome possession.
 
sennincatholic said:
I do not think dead human souls can possess the living.I think only demons do that.
@Thetatzlord, what you say about Hades its quite interesting,and i’ll have to verify it from official catholic sources.
Its also worth noting that we Catholics believe that there is a place after death, called Purgatory, destined for souls, who have been saved, but not pure enough to enter heaven.In purgatory,these souls get purified and made pure and holy before going to heaven spotless.It is my understanding that all souls in purgatory eventually go to heaven.
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Thanks! 🙂 As a former Catholic, you are correct that the Catholic church does teach that the righteous to a place prior to Heaven to be “purged” on any other sins before entering Heaven. However, since this post is about whether souls in Hell possess people, & not purgatory, & since I don’t believe that purgatory is taught in Scripture, I won’t comment on this point. The Greek of the does support the distinction Tartarus, Hades, & Hell. Here is an online Greek concondance that explains the distinction:

HADES

blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G86&t=HCSB

HELL

blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1067&t=HCSB

TARTARUS

blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5020&t=HCSB
 
opusAquinas said:
Christians can be possessed. This is why it is a sacrilege because the Holy Spirit and the evil ones are dwelling in the same place. But it is possible that the Holy Spirit withdraws from those who, incredibly, welcome possession.
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The Holy Spirit & demons cannot possess the same person at the same time. In fact, Jesus uses a parable about demons leaving a man’s house, & when the house is fixed up, if the man doesn’t keep it tidy (have the Holy Spirit), the demons will return. But they can’t return if the Holy Spirit is there. Plus, there is no example of the Holy Spirit “leaving” a Christian. That’s because a Christian is a “slave” (doulos - Greek) of Christ, & slaves only have one Master, who “possess” them, not too. If they are possessed by demons, then they aren’t a slave of Christ, but a servant.
 
thetazlord said:
Thanks! 🙂 As a former Catholic, you are correct that the Catholic church does teach that the righteous to a place prior to Heaven to be “purged” on any other sins before entering Heaven. However, since this post is about whether souls in Hell possess people, & not purgatory, & since I don’t believe that purgatory is taught in Scripture, I won’t comment on this point. The Greek of the does support the distinction Tartarus, Hades, & Hell. Here is an online Greek concondance that explains the distinction:

HADES

blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G86&t=HCSB

HELL

blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1067&t=HCSB

TARTARUS

blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5020&t=HCSB
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Thanks for the links.👍
 
thetazlord said:
The Holy Spirit & demons cannot possess the same person at the same time. In fact, Jesus uses a parable about demons leaving a man’s house, & when the house is fixed up, if the man doesn’t keep it tidy (have the Holy Spirit), the demons will return. But they can’t return if the Holy Spirit is there. Plus, there is no example of the Holy Spirit “leaving” a Christian. That’s because a Christian is a “slave” (doulos - Greek) of Christ, & slaves only have one Master, who “possess” them, not too. If they are possessed by demons, then they aren’t a slave of Christ, but a servant.
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Catholics and Protestants disagree about this. Some protestants believe once saved always saved. But this is semantics. If someone falls away they were never really Christians. But they were remember just believe in your heart - faith saves and then you can reject faith. You can have faith and God dwells in you. You can have faith and give into possession.

God can give up on you. Like he hardened pharoah’s heart or look at judas. You can say he was never a real believer? Then Satan entered into him.
 
thetazlord said:
You are correct that the damned souls don’t possess other people & that includes Judas. When Judas died, he immediately went to Hades, where he has been tortured by demons for nearly 2,000 years. What’s worse, is that it’s going to get worse from him, when he’s cast from Hades into Hell (Gehenna, the lake of fire) at the end of human history. And, you are correct that the devil & demons can possess people…except for Christians who are “possessed” by the Holy Spirit.
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Sorry, no knows who is in Hell…not even Judas or even Hitler …they may have repented at the last instance before death.
 
thetazlord said:
In my great-grandmother’s “New Catholic Version” Bible, which is based on the Douay-Rheims, the most vile damned, such as specific demons prior to the Flood of Noah, are bound in chains in a place called “Tartarus.” Tartarus is described in 2 Peter, & in most translations it’s mistranslated “hell,” except in certain versions such as the New Catholic Version & the Hollman’s Christian Standard Bible. Tartarus is the lowest part of Hades, which is not Hell (Gehenna). Those who die go to Hades first (Revelation Ch.19), & then after Christ’s Second Coming, after He rules for 1,000 years, those in Hades get cast into the lake of fire (Revelation Ch.20). The lake of fire is actually Hell (Gehenna), not Hades. Hades is a current, temporary place of punishment for the damned. Hell (the lake of fire, Gehenna) is the future, eternal place of eternal torment of the damned. But, Scripturally, no one - including demons - are actually “in” Hell yet.
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I appreciate that this taxonomy is how you personally interpret the Scriptures. Yet, this is not what the Church teaches – it does not take the particular interpretative stances that you do, nor does it describe the ‘locations’ of these various terms for places of punishment.

Interestingly, your take on ‘Tartarus’ proceeds from Greek mythology – it was, in that context, the lowest spot in Hades, and was the place where souls were judged and humans received punishment (at least, according to Plato). In Roman mythology, Tartarus was the place where sinners are punished. It seems that your theological assertions here are based more on pagan mythology than Christian exegesis. 🤷

In any case, your assertions about 2 Peter 4 are misinformed. There is not a description there of Tartarus, but only a glancing reference to it. In fact, it’s not even there as a noun, but in verbal form – ταρταρόω, “to condemn”. Peter’s use of the term, then, isn’t a theological assertion of the existence of Tartarus, but rather, simply a reference that would be understood by his audience as “being condemned to punishment.”

To claim that “no one [can possibly be] in hell yet” is to pick nits where there are none to be picked; more to the point, however, it asserts doctrine that is not the doctrine of the Catholic Church.
 
GEddie said:
Has an exorcist ever said that possession can be caused by dead human souls? Have you a link?

Even then, a demon might claim to be a dead soul, as almost everybody believes in those, and fewer believe in the existence of demons.

ICXC NIKA
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I know an exorcist who has said it is possible and I heard another exorcist say it is not.
 
The book Begone Satan is about a 28-day exorcism in Iowa some years ago. One of the possessing entities was believed to be a person along with demons. I do not, however, know of any official Church teaching on the matter.
 
GEddie said:
Has an exorcist ever said that possession can be caused by dead human souls? Have you a link?

Even then, a demon might claim to be a dead soul, as almost everybody believes in those, and fewer believe in the existence of demons.

ICXC NIKA
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I read an article about someone who performed exorcisms. I’m not sure whether or not it was a Catholic article or not. I could’t find the site the last time I looked for it again :o
 
roseproject said:
Or can only demons do that?

Thanks in advance 🙂
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Interview With An Exorcest by Fr.Fortea Page 89
Can the soul of a condemned person possess someone?
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Yes, in my opinion, the souls of the condemned can possess someone in exactly the same way as a demon. Some possessed persons, when they are in a trance, insist during the exorcism that they are not demons but deceased human beings. The exorcist must determine if they are lying, and that is why this is a debated question among exorcists. Nevertheless, one has to take into account that, no matter how much the exorcist insists in the name of Jesus that the possessed tell the truth, they do not yield in this assertion. They will yield in everything (kissing the cross, praising God, etc.), but they insist that they are human beings who have been condemned to hell and not demons. If they obey in everything but remain firm only in this assertion, it is reasonable to believe that they are telling the truth.
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So this exorcist thinks that there are condemned souls of people possessing others.
 
JillyAnn said:
2:2:4:1
1673 When the Church asks publicly and authoritatively in the name of Jesus Christ that a person or object be protected against the power of the Evil One and withdrawn from his dominion, it is called exorcism. Jesus performed exorcisms and from him the Church has received the power and office of exorcizing.178 In a simple form, exorcism is performed at the celebration of Baptism. The solemn exorcism, called “a major exorcism,” can be performed only by a priest and with the permission of the bishop. The priest must proceed with prudence, strictly observing the rules established by the Church. Exorcism is directed at the expulsion of demons or to the liberation from demonic possession through the spiritual authority which Jesus entrusted to his Church. Illness, especially psychological illness, is a very different matter; treating this is the concern of medical science. Therefore, before an exorcism is performed, it is important to ascertain that one is dealing with the presence of the Evil One, and not an illness.

Is this not a teaching? Or Are you referring to the exact meaning of what a demon is?
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I was answering the OP’s question–not questioning anything you’re talking about and don’t understand why you would think I was.:confused:
 
thetazlord said:
According to EWTN, “Hell” in the Apostle’s Creed is a “bad translation.” What most people consider “Hell” is actually “Hades.” “Hell” (“Gehenna”) is technically the “lake of fire” where all the unrepentant wicked who died, who are currently in Hades will “eventually” be cast into at the end of human civilization. So, technically, “Hell” is empty. The demons who are “in chains” are bound in Tartarus, which is a realm in the lowest level of Hades - or “below” it. These demons can’t “possess” anyone. However, there are “unbound” demons who are in Hades that can - and do - torture the wicked damned, but there is no Scriptural indication that they can “possess” anyone in Hades since they are all spirits. But they can possess living human beings, since they have bodies to possess. However, they can’t possess a true genuine believer in Christ, because they are “possessed” by the Holy Spirit, & are “slaves” in Christ. And since a person “cannot serve two masters” & since a slave is owned, a true genuine believer cannot be “possessed” by a demon. So, all those people in the past who have claimed to be Christians who were “possessed” by a demon, were not genuine Christians.

Individual condemned souls in Hades cannot possess people either. Once a person is in Hades, they remain there - PERMANENTLY, until they are cast into the lake of fire (ie: Hell).

Hope this helps. 🙂
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Why would certain demons be able to leave hell then? I dont know about this, Ive always been told, there is absolutely NO coming and going, so why would demons be exempt from this, after all, they committed such terrible sins that man cannot even come close to that level of sin…would not make sense if God allowed them more ‘freedom’ than human souls, if they are able to come and go, then human souls would be able to as well.
 
mikekle said:
Why would certain demons be able to leave hell then? I dont know about this, Ive always been told, there is absolutely NO coming and going
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For humans, sure.
, so why would demons be exempt from this, after all, they committed such terrible sins
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Look to the St Michael prayer – we pray for protection from satan and all the evil spirits that roam the world. why are they ‘exempt’? It’s part of satan’s ability to be in this world.
 
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