Can The SSPX Handle Coming Home ?

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What happens after they return ?

How can they stay, and retain their identity ? Will their clergy participate in celebrations of, say, an Archbishops’s anniversary ?
Specifically a special Mass for the Archbishop, that happens to be an NO with altar girls ?

How much of what the SSPX has taught their faithful that catholics just don’t do, will be truly accepted ?

What if a young SSPX man wants to marry a young woman raised in an NO parish, and the woman insists on being married in her home parish at an NO ? Is he, his parents, and his pastor going to accept that ?

The Archbishop of a dioceses will like things as they are. The SSPX group will still prefer things as they were.

How can it work ?

Even with a relaxing of guidelines on things like fasting, divorce, and so forth, there are those today that think the Church is too strict. How are these catholics going to view their new neighbors ?

The only way I see it can work is if the SSPX clergy admit the VII isn’t going to go away, and resolve to defend the faith with prudence and patience, while realizing they will be united with catholics who simply don’t understand their strict adherence to traditional catholicism. They will have to have faith BXVI will continue taking baby steps in those cool red shoes of his to lead the Church away from error.

Thoughts ?
 
You left out one other problem: according to cannon law, women may assist at the altar. This isn’t limited to the OF. Nobody seems to be doing it, but there’s no guarantee that it won’t happen. Also, receiving communion in the hand is a legal option. I’ve not seen it done at an EF Mass, but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.

I don’t think there can be a happy reconciliation for the whole society. There will be some members who leave the SSPX (some already are.) There will be schism within the SSPX. But, there are too many people who cannot come back because they have too many problems with the Church.
 
I_Believe said:
What happens after they return ?
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Hopefully they will get a global Apostolic Administration like in Campos (Brazil).

The Church is our Mother, and She has many faithful children, who legitimately practice their faith in diverse ways. Disunity among Christians is one of the greatest scandals in the world today. Scandal leads souls away from Christ and Salvation.
 
HOPEFUL_IN_UK said:
You left out one other problem: according to cannon law, women may assist at the altar. This isn’t limited to the OF. Nobody seems to be doing it, but there’s no guarantee that it won’t happen. Also, receiving communion in the hand is a legal option. I’ve not seen it done at an EF Mass, but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
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I’m not sure that would be as much of a problem as you think. It is up to the Priest who assists during the Mass whether as altar servers or readers/EMHC. They may be allowed to assist according to Canon Law but they don’t have a right to. The obvious solution might be to just bring back more people in minor orders, then as the (male) ordinary ministers would perform the function the male/female extraordinary ministers wouldn’t be needed.

I think that those who would go to an EF would probably choose not to receive in the hand, the same will be true after they rejoin some will go to EF some OF. After they had came into union with Rome I don’t think a priest from SSPX would be able to refuse Communion because someone wanted to receive in the hand, but they could use a method such as intinction where it must be received in the mouth hence eliminating the problem.

I think it might end up working in a similar way to the C of E allowing female ministers. They introduced a number of ‘flying’ Bishops who, although still under the Anglican hierarchy, had a specific ministry to those who refused to accept women. For diocesan events e.g. renewal of vows etc the orthodox priests had a separate service at a different time to the main one. How that could be applied to this I’m not sure, we might just need to have one or two traditional Bishops for a huge area, although that may result in two rites rather than two forms of the same rite. Alternatively local ordinaries could be instructed to hold separate services under each rite or the Papal Nuncios could be given authority over them. I think we can probably trust the Vatican to get it right whichever way they choose to go about it.
 
I think many of these problems have already been faced by other Traditionlist organizations. Obviously they’ve found a way to be Traditional in everything they do despite their surroundings- I imagine the SSPX will find a way, after all they were doing it prior to 1988.
 
I think most can, but there will be a large minority that will not come back no matter what (unless Vatican II was scrapped completely).
 
I_Believe said:
What happens after they return ?

How can they stay, and retain their identity ? Will their clergy participate in celebrations of, say, an Archbishops’s anniversary ?
Specifically a special Mass for the Archbishop, that happens to be an NO with altar girls ?

How much of what the SSPX has taught their faithful that catholics just don’t do, will be truly accepted ?

What if a young SSPX man wants to marry a young woman raised in an NO parish, and the woman insists on being married in her home parish at an NO ? Is he, his parents, and his pastor going to accept that ?

The Archbishop of a dioceses will like things as they are. The SSPX group will still prefer things as they were.

How can it work ?

Even with a relaxing of guidelines on things like fasting, divorce, and so forth, there are those today that think the Church is too strict. How are these catholics going to view their new neighbors ?

The only way I see it can work is if the SSPX clergy admit the VII isn’t going to go away, and resolve to defend the faith with prudence and patience, while realizing they will be united with catholics who simply don’t understand their strict adherence to traditional catholicism. They will have to have faith BXVI will continue taking baby steps in those cool red shoes of his to lead the Church away from error.

Thoughts ?
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Campos did it. It looks like the Transalpine Monks will probably do it. There’s a lovely little order of nuns in Oregon (?) who did it and they’ve found less pain then joy. Humility will quite be the key here. I hardly think that they need to attend an anniversary Mass nor would the Vatican “force” them to do so.
 
The only hope is for the SSPX to HUMBLY submit to Holy Mother, the Church and concede that:

Vatican II is a gift to the Church from the Holy Spirit which does NOT contradict the historical teaching of the Church.

The Mass of Paul VI is VALID and DOES validly consecrate the Eucharist.

If they would acknowledge these two things, they would be free to attend EF masses in dioscesan parishes or submit their chapels to the authority of the local bishop. Perhaps they could join the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter.

If they were to acknowledge the articles stated above, they would be able to participate freely in NO (OF) Masses for things like Episcopal installations or consecrations, weddings, etc. and still continue to prefer the EF as (in their opinion) more reverent liturgy.

The main problem I see is a PRIDE that causes many to believe that they are wiser than the fathers of the council refuse to accept the validity or at least licitness of the OF. It is possible that fear of this pride is the reason that the EF was discouraged for so long. The hierarchy may have feared some communities believing that they were “more Catholic” than others, based on the form of the Mass that they used.
 
The problems in the OP are not really legitimate problems, given that other traditionalist groups loyal to Rome have overcome them.

Look at the FSSP:

Their clergy sometimes attend NO Masses for social reasons, and even have a right to celebrate one if they like, but because they are a society of Apostolic Life, no priest, Bishop, Archbishop, or Cardinal can compel them to. They are answerable to their Superior General (which for the SSPX would be one of their Bishops if they came back into union), and he is answerable to the Pope. Furthermore, they have no reason to attend an NO in most cases.

If the people don’t like NO Masses or the “vibe” at them, they can’t be compelled to attend them either.

As to the altar girls, the FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, Institute of the Good Shepherd, etc., and hundreds of priests who celebrate the NO will refuse to use altar girls, and are personally against their use (despite, of course, being loyal to the wishes of the Magisterium)., and as was said earlier, no priest can be compelled to use them.

As to the wedding question proposed, this could just as easily happen with someone who belongs to an FSSP parish, and would be an isolated incident. In such a situation, I would advice trying to get the traditional priest over to the NO Parish to preside over the marriage, or the Pastor could preside over the marrige service (no Mass) and the Traditional priest could offer a Mass later. This isn’t such a big problem if we’re all Catholics in good standing with Rome.

I could see the SSPX coming home in generation or two. I don’t mean to offend anyone in saying this, but when a generation of people who did not live before or during the Second Vatican Council come to power, they will offer a different perspecitve, and after living through so much chaos from the 60s onward, they will most likely (in my opinion) consider obedience and unity two of their top priorities. I think we are seeing this in young priests. Not that older people don’t know this–it’s just that the next generation in every instance always brings a different prespective to the table, and either learns from or ignores the previous one. If young people today are orthodox, it’s because somebody passed faith on properly. And years from now, those who did not grow up amidst liturgical abuse and unorthodox views will have a different prespective, and hopefully will not take the labours of the past few generations for granted.

Mat.
 
They can. They should. I hope they do.

I see one issue that might be in the way is with the leadership. There will no be co-bishops and co-archbishops. Some of those consecrated as such in the SSPX will not have their own diocese any more but would have to be under the authority of the local ordinary. On the parish level, there is no reason they could not maintain their own TLM parishes and most could proceed as it always have.
 
brockmac said:
The only hope is for the SSPX to HUMBLY submit to Holy Mother, the Church and concede that:

Vatican II is a gift to the Church from the Holy Spirit which does NOT contradict the historical teaching of the Church.
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Why should the SSPX concede that? It’s not true. It’s not a Catholic teaching and it’s not even something that the Holy Father himself believes.

In Principals of Catholic Theology, he states that not all valid councils have been good for the Church and the historical value of Vatican II has yet to be proven.
 
As long as Bishop Williamson remains part of it, there’s no way the SSPX will be reconciled to Rome without experiencing major internal fractures. For this reason, it will not happen until he dies, and by that time the society will be an essentially separate Church, with potentially two generations of members who have never known proper membership in the Catholic Church and submission to the Catholic heirarchy.

It’s because of these things that I have absolutely no expectation the SSPX will return to full communion with the Church. Like so many schismatic movements of the past, their ties to the Church will dissolve and they’ll become an entirely separate entity. Only those who break away from the society can be reconciled.
 
HOPEFUL_IN_UK said:
bear06;3495402:
I know, but… what if the EF is introduced at a parish where an associate preist says it, but the pastor or the liturgy committee or somebody says there ought to be girls? It could happen. My point is, there are still things about the Church that Traditionalists don’t like that aren’t actually about the form of the Mass.
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Well there are a couple of things here. When doing the EF, the priest is not supposed to mix rites. And the other is that the odds of the SSPX become diocesan priests is slim to none. The FSSP do not do this. It really shouldn’t be an issue.
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Dauphin said:
As long as Bishop Williamson remains part of it, there’s no way the SSPX will be reconciled to Rome without experiencing major internal fractures. For this reason, it will not happen until he dies, and by that time the society will be an essentially separate Church, with potentially two generations of members who have never known proper membership in the Catholic Church and submission to the Catholic heirarchy.

It’s because of these things that I have absolutely no expectation the SSPX will return to full communion with the Church. Like so many schismatic movements of the past, their ties to the Church will dissolve and they’ll become an entirely separate entity. Only those who break away from the society can be reconciled.
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You are probably right.
 
HOPEFUL_IN_UK said:
I know, but… what if the EF is introduced at a parish where an associate preist says it, but the pastor or the liturgy committee or somebody says there ought to be girls? It could happen. My point is, there are still things about the Church that Traditionalists don’t like that aren’t actually about the form of the Mass.
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The associate pastor (or any visiting Priest) could refuse to use altar girls, just as he could decline the services of a scheduled EM if he decided he had enough ordinary ministers, ask people not to serve if he has too many servers or tell a music group not to do a particular arrangement if he thought it unsuited to a Mass.
 
HOPEFUL_IN_UK said:
bear06;3495402:
I know, but… what if the EF is introduced at a parish where an associate preist says it, but the pastor or the liturgy committee or somebody says there ought to be girls? It could happen. My point is, there are still things about the Church that Traditionalists don’t like that aren’t actually about the form of the Mass.
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It is still up to the individual Priest whether or not he uses female altar servers or extraordinary ministers. the pastor can request or the liturgy committee:eek: can ask, but the final decision is always in the hands of the celebrant.

This will be a non issue no matter how much you want to make it one.
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