Can The SSPX Handle Coming Home ?

[Mickey_Jackson]

Mickey, Dauphin, I agree he gets carried away at times. But I’ll never fault a man who is passionate in his defense of traditional catholicism.

If Williamson would tangle with someone like, say, Kaspar, I’d have his back covered.

He doesn’t bother me. Heretics bother me.

That’s all I have to offer on it.

All of us get carried away sometimes. I certainly do, as you can tell from the tone of some of my posts, and I ask God’s forgiveness for it. But did you read the passage from the Imitation that Dauphin cited? Being passionate simply isn’t enough. I have yet to read anything from Bishop Williamson that suggests that he is motivated by anything but anger, hatred, and not a small amount of fear. How can you defend someone who denies the murder of over six million innocent men, women, and children?

Furthermore, denying even implicitly the validity of a rite duly promulgated by a legitimate successor to Peter is not orthodox. Denying that JPII’s canonizations are covered by the charism of infallibility is not orthodox. Don’t forget that Luther, Calvin, et al saw themselves as defenders of true Catholic Tradition, which is how they justified disobeying the Pope and disgregarding his decrees of excommunication. I don’t have to tell you about the sad fruits of their disobedience, and I’m quite certain that, wherever their souls ended up, they now understand quite well whose job it is to interpret Tradition. The bishops and priests of the SSPX, well-intentioned though they may be, are on the same road.

 

[I_Believe]

That’s very fair. He doesn’t impose or expect everyone to believe what he suspects about the politics of the day and Lucifer’s ultimate plan to bring the big persecution on the Church.

He does expect people to stay away from sin, pray the Rosary pray for the Pope and support the traditional Catholic faith and family.

“God made the world for one purpose and one purpose only. To get souls to Heaven. All else is a distraction.”

Here’s an interview where he discusses cultural issues and politics including 9/11.

But he’s not alone, and he’s not pulling his hypotheses out of thin air. He’s not the first to notice the globalist trend and the implementation of the blueprint of Antonio Gramscii for the blending of Capitalism and Communism in a globalist economy.

Even Rush Limbaugh “conservative” and non-Catholic can see the edges of the Luciferian trend towards globalism. With the fraud of Global Warming being exposed more and more the blending of economies is being sped up. He’s always known that environmentalism was an excuse for socialism to impose it’s will on the public.

What he hasn’t caught onto yet is the consensus among nations to build a community of power that is not optional. That is why the first Gulph War was necessary to start bringing Islam into the mix. As an unchanging religion, it has to be changed into something “tolerant” and “indifferent” in order to fit in.

Well, I’m not studied on new world order stuff, but I don’t deny it exists. I think it was Henry Kissinger who plainly said it was in the works.

As far as Rush, I don’t think he really believes half the things he says. I think he’s an entertainer. I did get a kick out of hearing him play a tape of Bush talking about ending the war one day. On the question of immediate withdrawal of troops, Bush said " It’s notta gonna happen". I laughed for ten minutes at that one. Just the way he stumbled through it just to get it out lol.

Global warming ? IMO, since we have only been keeping records on weather for the last hundred years or so, I don’t ponder it much. After all, it was “global warming” that brought us out of the ice age lol.

 

[Mickey_Jackson]

I’ll quote anyone I feel like, especially when they provide insight into the hateful rants of Catholics that they would be ashamed to call Catholic.

Oh sing songs about it. He was 70 by the time the Council ended and he was virtually crushed by the reforms after the council. Listen to his lectures late in life and he was doing all he could to make sense of it to both himself and the faithful that he could still reach. The only time he ever lost his temper was after the council.

I’m not going to bother to read your ignorant rant. Suffice it to say, you don’t know him. I have met him. I know what I’m talking bout. You don’t. You just know gossip. So shut up about him or call him up and talk to him.

Well, that just shows how uneducated you are about what the Church teaches about true hierarchical obedience, valid, unjust and invalid excommunications and basic right from wrong.

That’s pure garbage on your part. I’m every bit of a Catholic as anyone. If it makes you comfortable to read lies and screeds by uninformed opportunistic, plaid-jacketed salesman pretending to be apologists, go ahead. It won’t get you anywhere closer to the Truth. I opted not to be so lazy.

I thank God that I actually took the time and effort to study the man, read his writings carefully, listen to his interviews, go out and actually meet him, talk with him and see him in action.

He inspires loyalty because he’s a humble man of Christ, doggedly in love with the Lord. Getting souls to Heaven in the Catholic Church is everything to him. He fights for Christ, he loves his enemies, he has no tolerance for corruption. He will not compromise with modernism at all. 100% Catholicism and nothing less is what he’ll settle for.

He’s a gift from God endowed with intelligence charisma and an amazing ability to discern souls. One on one, he will change topics instantly with a person and zero in on what they are in need of pastorally. Whether it’s a charism or a sign of his intelligence is not to be known, he helps souls. Period.

Anyone who ignores him, attacks him, or doesn’t listen to him is missing out on one of God’s special creatures, placed at this time and place in Church history to hold the line. History will eventually vindicate him as a hero to the Church.

You did not respond to a single one of my arguments. Indeed, as you admit, you didn’t even read them. You are so blinded by your own self-righteousness that you won’t even try to understand those who disagree with you, won’t even try to understand why. You’re not going to win any non-Catholic souls back to the Church with that attitude.

Gerard, one of the things that has struck me from reading the Gospels is that Christ was nice to everyone. Prostitutes, adulterers, heretics (i.e. Samaritans), pagans - whoever came to Him in sincerity of heart was welcomed. The one exception to this rule can be seen in His treatment of the Pharisees, who were so caught up in the idea that they and no one else had the True Faith that they forgot what it was all about. Christ said some pretty nasty things about and to them, and he was pretty clear about where they would end up if they didn’t repent.

If you won’t read my arguments, then I’m not going to bother with this debate any longer. You call me names and hurl insults at me, so I will do what Christ instructed us to do for all those who persecute us: pray for you.

 

[Mickey_Jackson]

Just out of curiosity, Gerard, do you believe that the Holocaust was a myth? Do you believe that the Protocols are factual? And did you take my advice and look up what Pius XI and Pius XII had to say about Bp. Williamson’s brand of anti-Semitism?

 

[Dauphin]

Just out of curiosity, Gerard, do you believe that the Holocaust was a myth? Do you believe that the Protocols are factual?

Don’t forget 9/11! Are you sure the Twin Towers weren’t brought down by airplanes, Gerard, like your very sane mentor asserts?

 

[Mickey_Jackson]

Don’t forget 9/11! Are you sure the Twin Towers weren’t brought down by airplanes, Gerard, like your mentor asserts?

9/11? Airplanes? That’s baloney! We need only to turn to the everlasting wisdom of Bishop Williamson: “The Jews did it!”

I heard they also control the banking system. Maybe they’re to blame for the credit crunch?

 

[GerardP]

You did not respond to a single one of my arguments. Indeed, as you admit, you didn’t even read them. You are so blinded by your own self-righteousness that you won’t even try to understand those who disagree with you, won’t even try to understand why. You’re not going to win any non-Catholic souls back to the Church with that attitude.

How can you make an argument against that which you are so woefully ignorant? Why don’t you gain some firsthand knowledge instead of spreading gossip?

Gerard, one of the things that has struck me from reading the Gospels is that Christ was nice to everyone.
Prostitutes, adulterers, heretics (i.e. Samaritans), pagans - whoever came to Him in sincerity of heart was welcomed. The one exception to this rule can be seen in His treatment of the Pharisees, who were so caught up in the idea that they and no one else had the True Faith that they forgot what it was all about.

They did have the true faith. But it was dead inside of them. They only knew externals and not what the externals meant.

Much like the Vatican II prelates that forgot the why of tradition and started dancing with the world after the council.

Christ said some pretty nasty things about and to them, and he was pretty clear about where they would end up if they didn’t repent.

Pretty divisive guy. Kind of like Bishop Williamson.

If you won’t read my arguments, then I’m not going to bother with this debate any longer. You call me names and hurl insults at me, so I will do what Christ instructed us to do for all those who persecute us: pray for you.

Prayers are always welcome. But why don’t you extend the courtesy that you seem to want to Bishop Williamson? You dismiss him only on the basis of gossip. You are deliberately ignorant of him and then presume to be in judgement of him.

Pull out the log from your own eye before you go for the splinter in your brother’s.

 

[GerardP]

Just out of curiosity, Gerard, do you believe that the Holocaust was a myth?

I don’t know what you mean by that exactly. The “Holocaust” has quite a few definitions. Do I believe there was a persecution of Jews in Europe prior to and during WWII? Yes. Do I believe Jews were made into soap and lampshades? No.

I discovered in researching this that there isn’t even agreement among Jews about whether or not to include homosexuals in the holocaust. Liberal Jews say yes. Conservative Jews say no. Funny how history is being debated along ideological lines.

Do you believe that the Protocols are factual?

I haven’t read them. But they sound much like Taylor Caldwells novels about the oil barons. The books seem to have a stigma attached to them but the points that seem to be brought out on a broad level are not much different than the complaints about the majority of jews that is espoused by Dennis Prager on the radio.

They have their cultural problems just like every other ethnic/cultural group.

And did you take my advice and look up what Pius XI and Pius XII had to say about Bp. Williamson’s brand of anti-Semitism?

Bishop Williamson is not an anti-semite. He has spoken very beautifully about “the Jews” in religious terms and as a race of people in history. He has had rabbis come to the seminary and give lectures. He think Jews make “excellent Catholics” when they convert.

He is opposed to Jews and Gentiles alike that are enemies of Christ. Abe Foxman, Marvin Heir, Schmuley Boteach, those types of guys. The modern day Pharisees.

And like Pius IX and Leo XIII he is vociferously opposed to Freemasons. Just as the heirarchy is (in a muted way) still opposed to freemasonry.

But I guess they were all and are all still kooks. Right?

 

[GerardP]

9/11? Airplanes? That’s baloney! We need only to turn to the everlasting wisdom of Bishop Williamson: “The Jews did it!”

I heard they also control the banking system. Maybe they’re to blame for the credit crunch?

You see? You have to lie about Williamson in order to engage in your relentless hatred of the man.

 

[GerardP]

Don’t forget 9/11! Are you sure the Twin Towers weren’t brought down by airplanes, Gerard, like your very sane mentor asserts?

Either show me where I said it,or recant it. You are lying about me. I will make a formal complaint to the moderator if you don’t.

It’s bad enough dealing with ignorance on these boards. I don’t have time to deal with liars.

 

[Mickey_Jackson]

Dauphin, let’s just give up. Prayer is the best weapon that Christ gives us. Gerard won’t listen to any substantive arguments, so it’s not worth the fight.

 

[GerardP]

Well, I’m not studied on new world order stuff, but I don’t deny it exists. I think it was Henry Kissinger who plainly said it was in the works.

So, why isn’t Kissinger dismissed as a kook?

As far as Rush, I don’t think he really believes half the things he says. I think he’s an entertainer. I did get a kick out of hearing him play a tape of Bush talking about ending the war one day. On the question of immediate withdrawal of troops, Bush said " It’s notta gonna happen". I laughed for ten minutes at that one. Just the way he stumbled through it just to get it out lol.

The point being, that he does acknowledge the erosion of freedoms in the U.S and the worldly trend towards transnational authorities superceding U.S. sovereignty.

Global warming ? IMO, since we have only been keeping records on weather for the last hundred years or so, I don’t ponder it much. After all, it was “global warming” that brought us out of the ice age lol.

Your lack of interest is admirable. Do you believe that Lucifer may have influence on these trends in the world? I’ve found that many people who discredit Williamson don’t really have a belief in the Devil and his ability to influence people.

 

[Dauphin]

Either show me where I said it,or recant it. You are lying about me. I will make a formal complaint to the moderator if you don’t.

Gladly! I’ve already given you the source. It’s a direct quote from the video I linked to ealier:

“… I hope none of you believe that 9/11 is what it was presented to be. It was… of course the two towers came down, but it was absolutely for certain not two airplanes which brought down those two towers. They were professionally demolished by a series of demolition charges from [the] top to bottom of the towers.” - Bishop Williamson

Believe me now? Is Williamson still your hero?

Note that I asked you whether you were sure the Twin Towers were not brought down by airplanes, as the good Bishop is. I didn’t accuse you of believing such an idiotic thing.

 

[I_Believe]

Mickey, Point me toward an audio tape of Williamson saying that.
Or a link to the SSPX site that cites it. Or a reputable Catholic news site that reported it.

All I found was an article by someone who said he said it. It said he said it, and though I would not defend such, it also said that protestants take their orders fron Satan, and that the Vatican sold out to liberalism. The last two aren’t so far fetched IMO. Poor choice of words, IF he said it, but arguably true in some cases.

Prove he said that about the jews and I’ll withdraw my defense of him. I may even concur he’s nuts.

 

[Mickey_Jackson]

Mickey, Point me toward an audio tape of Williamson saying that.
Or a link to the SSPX site that cites it. Or a reputable Catholic news site that reported it.

All I found was an article by someone who said he said it. It said he said it, and though I would not defend such, it also said that protestants take their orders fron Satan, and that the Vatican sold out to liberalism. The last two aren’t so far fetched IMO. Poor choice of words, IF he said it, but arguably true in some cases.

Prove he said that about the jews and I’ll withdraw my defense of him. I may even concur he’s nuts.

romancatholicism.org/bp-williamson.htm

An article from Fidelity Magazine, reprinted here: sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id9.html

He’s also quoted on a neo-Nazi website: stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/bishop-richard-williamson-sspx-144886.html

Here’s what he said:

“There was not one Jew killed in the gas chambers. It was all lies, lies,
lies. The Jews created the Holocaust so we would prostrate ourselves on our
knees before them and approve of their new State of Israel… Jews made up
the Holocaust, Protestants get their orders from the devil, and the Vatican
has sold its soul to liberalism.”

 

[GerardP]

Gladly! I’ve already given you the source. It’s a direct quote from the video I linked to ealier

Okay. I must’ve read your post wrong.
I thought you were saying to Mickey that I asserted on this thread that airplanes did not bring down the towers. And that you were sarcastically calling me Mickey’s sane mentor. Got it now.

Don’t forget 9/11! Are you sure the Twin Towers weren’t brought down by airplanes, Gerard, like your very sane mentor asserts?

Believe me now? Is Williamson still your hero?

Yes of course! Hah! I love how you seem to think that an opinion different than the one prominent in the media is somehow self-evident of it’s truth and automatically makes an alternative argument suitable only to be dismissed. Where is the logic in this?

It’s perfectly plausible that groups of men without the love of Christ in their lives could provoke a world-changing situation by either allowing or producing the 9/11 events.

Malachi Martin in 1993 predicted it would happen. “We’ve only had a foretaste with what they are going to do with the World Trade Center. They are going to blow it up.” --Shoes of the Fisherman interview with Bernard Janzen 1993.

He also predicted something much more horrible that I’m not even going to repeat here because I really, really don’t want to ever see it happen. But if it does, I won’t be surprised.

I’m also an Inquisition crimes denier by the way. I think the Crusades were a noble venture.

Pope Pius XII was not complicit in contributing to the Holocaust.

I believe the Lusitania was carrying weapons despite government denials.

I believe the Pentagon papers revealed more military lies covered up by the government.

I believe Churchill knew Coventry was going to get bombed and let it happen.

I believe the “Gulf of Tonkin” was an excuse for military incursion into Vietnam.

I don’t believe in evolution.

I do believe that God became a Man born of a Virgin, died and rose from the Dead.

Taking all of that into account. Plots involving the deaths of innocents by the enemies of Christ in power is not implausible.

The bombing of Dresden killed 100,000 in one night. There was no reason for doing it other than public relations in order to break the morale of the Germans.

How many millions die from abortion?

 

[bear06]

Mickey, Point me toward an audio tape of Williamson saying that.

 

[Mickey_Jackson]

Furthermore, he admitted saying it, claiming: “I was attacking the enemies of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that includes Jews, as well as Communists and Freemasons.”

The latter two are true. I’m not sure about all Jews being the enemy of Christ.

 

[GerardP]

The latter two are true. I’m not sure about all Jews being the enemy of Christ.

Where did he say “all jews” were enemies of Christ?

What have you actually heard him say? Not just Wiki quotes.

Weren’t you swayed by his references to Annas and Caiphas contrasted with Joseph of Arimethea and Nicodemus?

C’mon. If you’re going to talk about Bishop Williamson and “the jews” tell us all about it.

You know what you’re talking about, don’t you?

 

[Dauphin]

Yes of course! Hah! I love how you seem to think that an opinion different than the one prominent in the media is somehow self-evident of it’s truth and automatically makes an alternative argument suitable only to be dismissed. Where is the logic in this?

Here’s the logic… I saw airplanes crash into the World Trade Center towers. Therefore, airplanes caused the towers to collapse. I think we can be reasonably certain that it wasn’t the wind.

If I’m wrong, and the attacks of September 11th were orchestrated by the American government, it was absolutely the most masterfully conducted, perfectly planned and executed government program in the history of government. Quite frankly, though, I just don’t have enough confidence in government to believe they’re competent enough to pull something like that off. The amount of secrecy and complicity required from all sorts of massive organizations is just too extraordinary to believe possible.

That you can’t dismiss this conspiracy theory out of hand is quite revealing.