Can there be an Eastern Catholic pope?

[Wandile]

The eastern patriarchs were not “subject” to Rome in any significant sense in the first millennium. He was first among them, and the ultimate arbiter in disputes between them, but they were not “subject”.

AMDG

hawk

See the letters of St Cyril to Pope Celestine… St Cyril hesitated to act in any strong way without approval from Celestine first… despite the issue of nestorians being an eastern problem

 

[Wandile]

The Pope is not the Pope because he was elected Pope, but because he was elected the Bishop of Rome.

Early bishops o Rome were often drawn from the east. For several hundred years running, the chief deacon of Rome (I forget the title) was selected with only a single exception.

There is indeed a serious argument to select the bishop of Rome not from Italy, but from the Archdiocese of Rome and from its suffragan dioceses.

AMDG

hawk

This last part is what i honestly believe should be the way to select who the cardinals could elect as the Roman bishop unless maybe there is a better man out there than from the archdiocese of rome

 

[Wandile]

If that’s the case, he must not just be an Italian, he must be a Roman as well.

In fact, if we really want to be authentic and faithful to the traditions handed down by the Apostles, maybe the Pope should be a (still professing) Jewish fisherman who is the Patriarch of Antioch (any Rite), but preferably one who speaks rough Greek and left his mother-in-law behind in Palestine.

OK, maybe the last bit is not mandatory. The mother-in-law could be dead by the time the candidate reaches Rome.

YAWN

What I mentioned was actually traditional practice of the Roman church for centuries barring a few exceptions… even in recent history the custom is for the pope to be Italian… It’s only the last 3 who havent been.

 

[jimkhong]

What I mentioned was actually traditional practice of the Roman church for centuries barring a few exceptions… even in recent history the custom is for the pope to be Italian… It’s only the last 3 who havent been.

Traditional practice and custom?

or a closed shop power structure now belatedly updated ?

 

[Wandile]

Traditional practice and custom?

or a closed shop power structure now belatedly updated ?

There is only one answer and its the former. Just see history.

 

[Wandile]

Indeed

 

[SAVINGRACE]

The short answer is yes there can be an Eastern Catholic pope. The pope can come from anywhere in the world and that is a good thing. The rest is wishful thinking and verbal diarrhoea. Unfollowing

 

[wynd]

The short answer is yes there can be an Eastern Catholic pope. The pope can come from anywhere in the world and that is a good thing. The rest is wishful thinking and verbal diarrhoea. Unfollowing

But how? The pope’s first and foremost role is the bishop of the Latin-rite diocese of Rome. Sure, you could elect an Eastern bishop, but why would he want to be the bishop of a diocese whose rite he isn’t even a part of?

 

[MorEphrem]

But how? The pope’s first and foremost role is the bishop of the Latin-rite diocese of Rome. Sure, you could elect an Eastern bishop, but why would he want to be the bishop of a diocese whose rite he isn’t even a part of?

Excellent question.

 

[dochawk]

But how? The pope’s first and foremost role is the bishop of the Latin-rite diocese of Rome. Sure, you could elect an Eastern bishop, but why would he want to be the bishop of a diocese whose rite he isn’t even a part of?

Same reason a priest would give up a parish and accept episcopal consecration, I suspect.

AMDG

hawk

 

[Filioque]

The Pope is the Supreme Authority of the entire Church, Eastern, Oriental and Latin Rites. Our own Pope Frances after ordination and while continuing his studies in Rome would get up early and go to the Russicum, (Russian Rite Catholic Seminary in Rome) and concelebrate the Byzantine Rite with a priest who’s cause is now up for Canonization. While one of the Titles of the Pope is Patriarch of the West. From a Catholic point of view, he is Pope to all Catholics, whatever rite. He may Celebrate in any Rite he chooses, or all. Officially as Bishop of Rome that usually means the Latin Rite, but he is not bound to just that rite. An Eastern Bishop who did not know the Latin Rite would be instructed in it, and would use it when pastorally needed, (Probably most of the time when he was in the West) But is still free to use any rite just as a Pope elected out of the Latin Rite.

 

[Filioque]

They were not patriarchs, but they were bishops of the Eastern Church.

Orthodox Churches do not recognize the Pope as the Universal Head of the Church, therefore they recognize the Catholic Patriarchs of the Eastern Catholic Church (prior to the Schism) as being Orthodox, not as Catholic in the sense of being in communion with the Roman Pontiff as we understand him, ie. as Supreme Head of the Church on Earth, and Vicar of Christ. So while we have the same list of Patriarchs, they see them as all equal to the Pope. Their Ecclesiology differs in this and a few other points.

 

[Filioque]

But how? The pope’s first and foremost role is the bishop of the Latin-rite diocese of Rome. Sure, you could elect an Eastern bishop, but why would he want to be the bishop of a diocese whose rite he isn’t even a part of?

He is, but as a matter of practicality, there are bishops who oversee Rome and the seven Sees that surround it who have the practical day to day operation of the local Diocese. They have positions of pre-eminence due to the Sees they occupy. While the Pope technically is Bishop of the See of Rome (along with a dozen or more other titles) He has much to do, and leaves the practical aspects of running the local diocese to the bishop appointed to that task in Rome.

 

[dochawk]

So while we have the same list of Patriarchs, they see them as all equal to the Pope. Their Ecclesiology differs in this and a few other points.

“equal” would be overstating it.

Most EO grant that with communion re-established, the Bishop of Rome would again be first among equals–though not with jurisdiction (for lack of a better word) outside his Patriarchy.

There is no issue of “reunion” as there was never “union” in the sense the word implies.

To the extent of his leadership, it would be by moral authority, virtue, etc., and not by ability to command.

AMDG

 

[Filioque]

“equal” would be overstating it.

Most EO grant that with communion re-established, the Bishop of Rome would again be first among equals–though not with jurisdiction (for lack of a better word) outside his Patriarchy.

There is no issue of “reunion” as there was never “union” in the sense the word implies.

To the extent of his leadership, it would be by moral authority, virtue, etc., and not by ability to command.

AMDG

While Orthodox do indeed consider the Roman Pontiff as “First” among equals, but as you intimated, in honor, and not in Jurisdiction or having a Primacy above the other Patriarchs. Catholics, Eastern, Oriental and Latin, with rare exception hold that Papal Primacy and Supremecy has been the rule from the time of St. Peter, even when it was not explicitly exerted. This has been a stumbling block to reunion. But that is not the point of this thread. The fact is that those in communion with the Holy See are all equally Catholic, we are first Catholic, and secondarily members of individual Rites within the Catholic Church. These Churches, are not any more or less Catholic than each other, and any male member of any Catholic Rite can be elected to the Papal Office.

 

[Omaestre]

Don’t know if it has been mentioned but we have had a great line of Eastern Popes. Google the Byzantine papacy.

They would of course automatically become Latin rite since the diocese of Rome is Latin rite, they would however retain bi-ritual faculties, in fact all Popes become omni-ritual like Saint Pope John Paul the 2nd demonstrated when he celebrated divine liturgy with Ukrainian clergy.

In fact if we look at the development of the liturgy, there was a huge influence of the Byzantine rite into the west due to the Greek Popes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Papacy

Currently it does not seem that likely, we have few if any Cardinal electors, and the Latin rite is so huge that often the efforts and works of the Eastern bishops are simply overlooked. It would require a Western Pope with an intimate relationship with the East, more so than Saint John Paul the 2nd, and he would have to select an unprecedented amount of Cardinal electors.

 

[Kielbasi]

Currently it does not seem that likely, we have few if any Cardinal electors, and the Latin rite is so huge that often the efforts and works of the Eastern bishops are simply overlooked. It would require a Western Pope with an intimate relationship with the East, more so than Saint John Paul the 2nd, and he would have to select an unprecedented amount of Cardinal electors.

I think if the current Cardinals thought that a particular eastern bishop was the best candidate available to be pope, they wouldn’t hesitate to vote for them now.

BTW, just statistically, the Latin Rite is 10 times larger than all of the other churches combined.

 

[Omaestre]

The Pope is the Supreme Authority of the entire Church, Eastern, Oriental and Latin Rites.

Careful, I get what you are saying but papal supremacy is not above the councils, using this kind of phrase can be used to validates the Orthodox claim that the west is pope-centric and not Christ centric, and send people running away as fast as possible.

 

[Filioque]

Careful, I get what you are saying but papal supremacy is not above the councils, using this kind of phrase can be used to validates the Orthodox claim that the west is pope-centric and not Christ centric, and send people running away as fast as possible.

The Fifth Lateran Council and Pastor Aeternus of the First Vatican Council condemned Conciliarism, which placed Ecumenical Councils above the Pope. The Pope (and since this thread is can there be an Eastern Catholic Pope) is the Vicar of Christ, Just as Hyper-Dulia, the honor we give to our Lady, gives honor to Christ Jesus, when we give Her the Honor and devotion She deserves. Giving obedience and accepting the Papal Office, and the Man who holds it as Christ’s Vicar, and Supreme Head of the Church on Earth, honors our Lord, because that is how He set up His Church.

But back to the topic of the thread, the Pope be he raised as a Latin, Eastern or Oriental Catholic man, when he is elected Pope is among other things Bishop of Rome, and Supreme Pontiff of the entire Church. He is the only Bishop in the Church does not need faculties to celebrate in any approved rite of the Church, as he being Christ’s Vicar and Peter’s Successor is the final authority on earth. When our Lord returns we will not need a Pope, but until then, he is the final authority our Lord gave us.

While the Orthodox Churches may not accept this, Eastern Catholic bishops do and did at the First Vatican Council. I recently found a 100 year plus book written by the Archbishop of Mosul, in modern Syria, the book has all of the arguments from Eastern Fathers, bishops and Councils supporting Papal Supremacy in English, the other half of the book are the same quotes in their original languages, Chaldean, Assyrian, Arabic, Greek and Latin. Would that I could read Chaldean Assyrian and Arabic, but at least it has the English, and Latin, and some of the Greek I can muddle through. When I get back from my Lenten Retreat, perhaps I’ll start a thread with some of the English texts

 

[poche]

If the cardinals vote for him and he accepts then “Yes” we could very likely have an Eastern Catholic pope.